Assassins creed unity- another diversity post

[Vault101]

snip]

look its not even the fact that there arent females [footnote/]in this specific case[/footnote], its the excuse "oh yeah we could have but you know..work" I mean am I supposed to feel good about that? its not a satisfying explanation...its just beyond frustrating

 

[Gankytim]

snip]

look its not even the fact that there arent females [footnote/]in this specific case[/footnote], its the excuse "oh yeah we could have but you know..work" I mean am I supposed to feel good about that? its not a satisfying explanation...its just beyond frustrating

There shouldn't have even been complaints at the start, Ubisoft should not have had to defend themselves against the outcry of a lack of Arnos with sex changes during the loading screens. I doubt it was even an issue of work, maybe they just wanted people to show off their customized avatar in multiplayer.

Not every game is going to be Fable or Mass Effect and let you be whatever gender/sexuality you want to be. Sometimes that shit will not factor into the game at all. Assassins Creed has never been about choice. It's been about their set protagonists development. Yes, the SET PROTAGONIST not some blank slate you can customize to be whatever you want it to be.

 

[Sutter Cane]

[b/]but the response[/b] THAT is worse than the issue....being told its "too hard" to do female characters in this way is condescending and frustrating and quite frankly I'm glad! lazyness is not an excuse...if it didn't fit in with what the co-op was suposed to be then fine..but laziness is just a slap in the face

It's a fun bonus, you get to show off your customized avatar of the MAIN CHARACTER, ARNO in co-op. It's not problematic, it's not "lazy".

Maybe when I play Crusader Kings II, sometimes I want to play as the owner of a barony rather than playing as someone who owns a wide stretch of land. Is Paradox lazy for not including that content? Maybe I want to play as the Pope. Is Paradox lazy for not letting me play as the Papacy?

In Dwarf Fortress maybe I want my fort to be made by Elves or Kobolds or Spider People or Dragons, They're ALL in the game, but I can't play as them in Fortress mode. And I have to edit the game to be able to play as anything other than A Human, Elf or Dwarf in Adventure mode. Is that all lazy?

This is something that [b/]should not need defending.[/b]

but it's four versions of the same dude running around in the same world. That concept inheently does not make sense in any way shape or form unless they're going to add the concept of cloning to their french revolution based game. I know that other games have done it, but it didn't make a damn bit of logical sense there either, and this game is selling itself specifically based on its co-op.

 

[Gankytim]

but it's four versions of the same dude running around in the same world. That concept inheently does not make sense in any way shape or form unless they're going to add the concept of cloning to their french revolution based game. I know that other games have done it, but it didn't make a damn bit of logical sense there either, and this game is selling itself specifically based on its co-op.

Okay? The game has a plothole, so what? It still doesn't change the fact that the game SHOULD NOT NEED TO BE DEFENDED from the fact that Arno doesn't have a sex change during the loading screens.

 

[mecegirl]

but it's four versions of the same dude running around in the same world. That concept inheently does not make sense in any way shape or form unless they're going to add the concept of cloning to their french revolution based game. I know that other games have done it, but it didn't make a damn bit of logical sense there either, and this game is selling itself specifically based on its co-op.

Okay? The game has a plothole, so what? It still doesn't change the fact that the game SHOULD NOT NEED TO BE DEFENDED from the fact that Arno doesn't have a sex change during the loading screens.

Then why did Ubisoft try to defend it? That is Vault's point. They were asked by an interviewer about female characters. They could have simply stated that they did not want to make any characters other than Arno because the point of the multiplayer was to play as a customized Arno. They did not. Instead, when asked, they admitted that it was on their list of things to do but they cut it because it would be too much work.

That is the disappointing thing, that they had an idea for a female option but decided to cut it. And that the reason's why they decided to cut it make them sound lazy. They are a big company now, they have arrived at the point that they get millions and millions in sales from their franchises. They can afford the time and effort that it would take to include a female chracter, they just have to view female characters as a worthwhile endeavor.

Its like how people don't believe it when big businesses say that they can't make a profit if they raise the minimum wage. Some one would believe that from the mom and pop shop. And small businesses tend to pay their workers well anyway. But Wal-Mart? Divvying up one of their top earners bouneses would solve that problem on a national scale. So no, Wal-Mart gets no sympathy.

 

[Something Amyss]

I would hope that anyone voicing their criticism would at least have some valid reasoning behind it apart from "It's just not what I personally would have liked."

I'm still missing how that's invalid.

Honestly though I'm getting the impression that alot of the criticism here is due to a misunderstanding of what the coop and customisation in this game will actually entail.

I don't think people care. Nor are the obligated to care.

Play as a male character, then take that same character into another players world Dark Souls Invasion style, then you expect a sex change during the loading screen? I'm pretty sure sex changes weren't a thing in Revoloutionary France.

Yes, in a game about ancient aliens, their space magic artifacts, and anachronistic devices and even historical alterations to make things look more iconic, sex changes are ridiculous.

look its not even the fact that there arent females [footnote/]in this specific case[/footnote], its the excuse "oh yeah we could have but you know..work" I mean am I supposed to feel good about that? its not a satisfying explanation...its just beyond frustrating

Well, even after they spend all that work courting you, there's no guarantee you'll give up your cash. How do they know you won't just friend zone them, Vault? HOW DO THEY KNOW?????

 

[PsychicTaco115]

Sucks that there won't be a playable female but as long as they don't neglect to cover Charlotte Corday ( a REAL assassin during the French Revolution) or the Women's March on Versailles, I'll take it. Seriously, that would be much, MUCH worse :/

The excuse does sound really lazy though; why not just say they didn't have the time to put it in now because it's a few months from launch?

They have put a playable female protagonist on the PS Vita so they CAN do it...

 

[Maeshone]

but it's four versions of the same dude running around in the same world. That concept inheently does not make sense in any way shape or form unless they're going to add the concept of cloning to their french revolution based game. I know that other games have done it, but it didn't make a damn bit of logical sense there either, and this game is selling itself specifically based on its co-op.

I thought it was pretty obvious that it isn't 4 versions of Arno in coop, but Arno and 3 friends. It just so happens that those 3 friends each represent another Arno in another version of the game. So, on my screen I'm Arno while my friends are 3 other assassins, but on their screens they're Arno and I'm one of the 3 other assassins. That doesn't make it ok for Ubisoft to slap a random skin on a character that I get to customize myself, I want my character to look like my character.

 

[Genocidicles]

but it's four versions of the same dude running around in the same world. That concept inheently does not make sense in any way shape or form unless they're going to add the concept of cloning to their french revolution based game. I know that other games have done it, but it didn't make a damn bit of logical sense there either, and this game is selling itself specifically based on its co-op.

Every player is playing as Arno, but the other players appear as generic assassin guys.

Player 1 is Arno, and to him players 2, 3, and 4 are generic assassins... but in player 2's game, he is Arno, and players 1 is a generic assassin instead.

So in game it doesn't look like 4 of the same guy running around.

 

[the December King]

I'm just wondering if there was a huge turnout in sales for Liberation, and whether it's success or failure was indicative of the prevailing market trends. If you bought that game to death and loved it, and most of the AC crowd did too, thus proving that the AC brand was super with a female assassin, then wouldn't we be seeing alot more female assassin representation by now? Or do people play the game because of something else?

I don't think people care. Nor are the obligated to care.

That seems fair! After all, who needs facts, when we can attack anyone over slights perceived, right? We wouldn't want to have that be an accusation made to anyone, that they don't care to understand the other side, to learn about the situation. After all, flying off the handle is what the internet is for!

 

[Maeshone]

Every player is playing as Arno, but the other players appear as generic assassin guys.

Player 1 is Arno, and to him players 2, 3, and 4 are generic assassins... but in player 2's game, he is Arno, and players 1 is a generic assassin instead.

So in game it doesn't look like 4 of the same guy running around.

Actually depending on how you customize Arno that is exactly what could happen. If you were just assigned the look of some random Assassin mook there would be no excuse to not have a female character, but as it stands right now, everyone looks exactly like their version of Arno. They just happen to not be Arno in their friends copy of the game, where they are just some other assassin. But they still look like Arno.

 

[Simonism451]

The part of Unity that really confuses me is that the development team for Assassin's Creed apparently pride themselves on being a very diverse team, but when it comes to the character design for the four assassins this game apparently features, they're all identical.

I mean they're Assassins in the midst of a revolution, so a scar or two wouldn't be uncommon and having one on the face of a character would really give them an identifying feature. Also, not one of them is a female? I don't get that. I understand that they're all french, so I can let racial diversity slide, but I just don't see why the only difference between the characters is the moustache style..

Because 75% of their face is eternally obscured by the shadow of a enlightement era hoodie, so the developers can get away with tacking a moustache to the same model used in singleplayer and keep some people happy.

 

[Something Amyss]

That seems fair! After all, who needs facts, when we can attack anyone over slights perceived, right?

Wait wait wait wait waaaaaait a second. You just attacked me based on something I didn't say to criticise people attacking others regardless of the facts. What?

We wouldn't want to have that be an accusation made to anyone, that they don't care to understand the other side, to learn about the situation. After all, flying off the handle is what the internet is for!

Well, I'm assuming you're being sarcastic, but your response was to overreact. If you don't like overreacting, then don't. Lead by example.

Or even if there's no reason it's all cool, attempts to suggest or enforce quotas of gender, sexuality or another other personal characteristic in art are wrong, intolerant and repressive.

Which is literally no different than the status quo, except other people get to be involved.

 

[mecegirl]

Every player is playing as Arno, but the other players appear as generic assassin guys.

Player 1 is Arno, and to him players 2, 3, and 4 are generic assassins... but in player 2's game, he is Arno, and players 1 is a generic assassin instead.

So in game it doesn't look like 4 of the same guy running around.

Actually depending on how you customize Arno that is exactly what could happen. If you were just assigned the look of some random Assassin mook there would be no excuse to not have a female character, but as it stands right now, everyone looks exactly like their version of Arno. They just happen to not be Arno in their friends copy of the game, where they are just some other assassin. But they still look like Arno.

Well it still looks like 4 of the same guy, just four of the same guy with a different jacket on. I guess that's what makes it look like you are a "random" assassin to the other players. I'm guessing that in the customization that you get to choose what clothing you wear/class you are. So if two friends happen to fancy the same jacket (or class, say that you and your friend both like the super stealthy Arno, but super stealthy Arno has a specific Jacket type) I'd like to hope that no one would be forced to wear a different one just to make sure all four Arno's are distinguishable. There are little indicators above each Arno in the co-op trailer anyway so that shouldn't be an issue.
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[Maeshone]

Well it still looks like 4 of the same guy, just four of the same guy with a different jacket on. I guess that's what makes it look like you are a "random" assassin to the other players. I'm guessing that in the customization that you get to choose what clothing you wear. But if two friends happen to fancy the same jacket I'd like to hope that no one would be forced to wear a different one. There are little indicators above each Arno in the co-op trailer anyway.
<youtube=RpJ6GICqQyc>

Yeah, that's the point I was trying to make. If you happen to like the same outfit as your friend there will literally be two clones running around (or two devilishly handsome assassins depending on the way you view it)
I think a larger variety will come into play in regards to the skill trees anyway, as you can apparently decide if you want to specialize in stealth, gadgets, combat, etc.

 

[the December King]

That seems fair! After all, who needs facts, when we can attack anyone over slights perceived, right?

Wait wait wait wait waaaaaait a second. You just attacked me based on something I didn't say to criticise people attacking others regardless of the facts. What?

We wouldn't want to have that be an accusation made to anyone, that they don't care to understand the other side, to learn about the situation. After all, flying off the handle is what the internet is for!

Well, I'm assuming you're being sarcastic, but your response was to overreact. If you don't like overreacting, then don't. Lead by example.

Awww, I was just poking fun, is all- sorry, Zachary Amaranth. I assumed you meant that no one cares about the facts. It just seems that alot of feminists that are vocal want men to understand the issues better, to realize or even perceive the imbalance and that it is not an attack on men, to realize that they might not fully understand what it's like to be underrepresented, underpaid, undervalued, etc. Which are all important things to consider.

Except of course if they don't care about the realities of the particular subject at hand, and just want to vent about sexist pig devs.

 

[Gankytim]

but it's four versions of the same dude running around in the same world. That concept inheently does not make sense in any way shape or form unless they're going to add the concept of cloning to their french revolution based game. I know that other games have done it, but it didn't make a damn bit of logical sense there either, and this game is selling itself specifically based on its co-op.

Okay? The game has a plothole, so what? It still doesn't change the fact that the game SHOULD NOT NEED TO BE DEFENDED from the fact that Arno doesn't have a sex change during the loading screens.

Then why did Ubisoft try to defend it? That is Vault's point. They were asked by an interviewer about female characters. They could have simply stated that they did not want to make any characters other than Arno because the point of the multiplayer was to play as a customized Arno. They did not. Instead, when asked, they admitted that it was on their list of things to do but they cut it because it would be too much work.

This still doesn't adress my point. It's not that they DID defend their stance, it's that they HAD TO. It's a fucking non-canon side bonus.

That is the disappointing thing, that they had an idea for a female option but decided to cut it. And that the reason's why they decided to cut it make them sound lazy. They are a big company now, they have arrived at the point that they get millions and millions in sales from their franchises. They can afford the time and effort that it would take to include a female chracter, they just have to view female characters as a worthwhile endeavor.

If Ubisoft is going to start using their money wisely they have better things to be worrying about than making you comfortable with the non-canon side bonus character, like making their games actually work on PC. Like making the low quality textures not identical to the ultra quality textures in Black Flag. Like actually ensuring their Uplay service actually fucking connects to their server on PC more than once in a blue moon. Like making sure PC users don't have to download cracked CD keys for the games they bought on Steam.

If you're going to bring up the multi-million dollar corporation argument there's bigger priorities than making female non-canon side bonus characters.

Its like how people don't believe it when big businesses say that they can't make a profit if they raise the minimum wage. Some one would believe that from the mom and pop shop. And small businesses tend to pay their workers well anyway. But Wal-Mart? Divvying up one of their top earners bouneses would solve that problem on a national scale. So no, Wal-Mart gets no sympathy.

Yeah, okay? Not seeing the point of that little Wal-Mart tangent. If you wan't the mom and pop shop of video games then support go play some indie dev games?

 

[mecegirl]

but it's four versions of the same dude running around in the same world. That concept inheently does not make sense in any way shape or form unless they're going to add the concept of cloning to their french revolution based game. I know that other games have done it, but it didn't make a damn bit of logical sense there either, and this game is selling itself specifically based on its co-op.

Okay? The game has a plothole, so what? It still doesn't change the fact that the game SHOULD NOT NEED TO BE DEFENDED from the fact that Arno doesn't have a sex change during the loading screens.

Then why did Ubisoft try to defend it? That is Vault's point. They were asked by an interviewer about female characters. They could have simply stated that they did not want to make any characters other than Arno because the point of the multiplayer was to play as a customized Arno. They did not. Instead, when asked, they admitted that it was on their list of things to do but they cut it because it would be too much work.

This still doesn't adress my point. It's not that they DID defend their stance, it's that they HAD TO. It's a fucking non-canon side bonus.

That is the disappointing thing, that they had an idea for a female option but decided to cut it. And that the reason's why they decided to cut it make them sound lazy. They are a big company now, they have arrived at the point that they get millions and millions in sales from their franchises. They can afford the time and effort that it would take to include a female chracter, they just have to view female characters as a worthwhile endeavor.

If Ubisoft is going to start using their money wisely they have better things to be worrying about than making you comfortable with the non-canon side bonus character, like making their games actually work on PC. Like making the low quality textures not identical to the ultra quality textures in Black Flag. Like actually ensuring their Uplay service actually fucking connects to their server on PC more than once in a blue moon. Like making sure PC users don't have to download cracked CD keys for the games they bought on Steam.

If you're going to bring up the multi-million dollar corporation argument there's bigger priorities than making female non-canon side bonus characters.

Its like how people don't believe it when big businesses say that they can't make a profit if they raise the minimum wage. Some one would believe that from the mom and pop shop. And small businesses tend to pay their workers well anyway. But Wal-Mart? Divvying up one of their top earners bouneses would solve that problem on a national scale. So no, Wal-Mart gets no sympathy.

Yeah, okay? Not seeing the point of that little Wal-Mart tangent. If you wan't the mom and pop shop of video games then support go play some indie dev games?

No. For the millionth time...Can people just not read here? I'll say it again in a different way. It's not about it being a plot hole and thus there needs to be a female chracter. It's that because it is a plot hole people using the plot as their reasoning for why there couldn't have been a female chracter is stupid.

Also, I said shit about Ubisoft needing to make me feel comfortable about anything. Either you quote where I said something to that effect or you don't put words in my mouth and actually argue against what I said. You have yet to address why anyone shouldn't be able to express disappointment at the loss of potential for a female character. And that is all anyone upset about the "it was too much work" news is doing.

This is the real world. It doesn't matter what type of questions you think shouldn't be asked. People are going to ask them anyway. These are adults creating a product to be sold, not pre kindergarteners offering their mom doodles to put up on the fridge. What are you gonna do about it? Run up to every journalist out there and demand that they don't ask questions? I mean you can, but I doubt they'd care about your opinion.

I went to an art college, dealing with questions and criticism was part of the curriculum. People will always ask questions about a piece of work. Especially the ones you don't want to answer. As students my classmates and I even practiced coming up with the most far out there questions and comments. So that when it was time to present our work, we could be prepared to give answers. Because it wasn't just to prepare for that one asshole in the back of the class asking stupid questions, it was for the many guest reviewers who would ask strange questions. And especially for your teacher. The teacher often knew exactally where your work is weakest because, they watched you create it. So the would press you on those issues. And even after college I get questions at work, from my boss, from my coworkers, and from my clients. Some that are even mind bogglingly stupid, but I am still expected to give an answer that won't undercut the credibility of my designs.

There are mistakes that a minor developer can make that a major one cannot without garnering criticism. If creating a female option is what they wanted to do. And remember, it is a representative from Ubisoft that said that they wanted to do so, then they just need to plan accordingly. Unlike a independent developer,very little is out of their reach so we expect more from them. The same way that we expect a larger inventory of items to purchase from Wal-mart than from a Mom and Pop store. They have the money to hire who they need to hire to create the game that they want to create. And Assassins Creed is now an established franchise. So unlike indy developers they also have the time. If they felt that holding back the game till 2016 is what was needed to incorporate all of the features that they wanted to, then they could do so without repercussion because there will still be people pre-ordering and swarming around on release day to get the game.