Atheism Vs. Anti-Theism

[Moloch-De]

If god would have liked to piss me of he wuld have told his Son or his buddys:
"hey put an extra Page in your fancy little Book that says this:
e=mc^2
People might not understand for centuries but in times they will."

That way there would be at least one more convinced Christian walking the earth and i guess a whole lot of the scientiffic community would join in an instant. Sad he forgot that Page since now we won't know that everything works so well just because it was intended.

 

[Nugoo]

What gives a particle physicist the right to tell everyone that they are made of quarks? What gives them the unique ability and right?

Evidence. Evidence gathered by machines based on theories that are supported by other evidence. And so on until the evidence is gathered without machines.

 

[AuntyEthel]

I'm an atheist, but I'm not ashamed to say I dip my toes into anti-theist territory sometimes. Unfortunately, religious types are often incredibly intolerant of atheists, and I've been forced into making anti-theist comments due to the nature of the person I'm debating/arguing with.

It's not my fault that I found religion irrational and ridiculous (I was born like that), and living on a largely religion controlled planet, we have the right to defend our non-religion as much as they have the right to defend their religion.

 

[mtk2a]

True. If science did NOT work, that would be the appropriate argument for universal chaos. The predictability of any naturally occurring phenomenon is evidence of universal or natural order.

The uncertainty principle says hi. Scientific proof the cosmos is not predictable. There is no Newtonian clockwork universe where the entire sum of history is deterministic, there is no 100% sure thing. Even the laws of physics as we understand them can change at random.
Given sufficient time to roll the dice chaos will inevitably produce a state indistinguishable from order, given beings designed to find patterns even pure chaos will appear to have an underlying order.

But there is no underlying order, no hidden variable, no rhyme or reason. There is chaos.

I would contend that the uncertainty of a particle's position and momentum is a failing of current physics, and not a property of the universe. Our perception of a particle is constrained by our observation of it, which is limited by factors both known and unknown. If mankind were to have the ability to view a particle in every existing dimension of reality, it is possible that the particle's exact position and momentum could be determined.

Uncertainty principle does not extend to other areas of science in which outcomes are predictable, and are evidential of order.

I will admit that arguments of the specifics of quantum physics are a bit above my pay-grade, perhaps they are not above yours?

 

[Jobz]

2 + 2 ≠ 4 in Base 3.

2 + 2 = 10.

^Win. That's about all that can be said.

Kant weeps tears of blood.

Kant? The Philosopher? What the devil does he have to do with base 3 equations?

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Unfortunately, religious types are often incredibly intolerant of atheists, and I've been forced into making anti-theist comments due to the nature of the person I'm debating/arguing with.

Uh...*points to the above thread full of posts*

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I will admit that arguments of the specifics of quantum physics are a bit above my pay-grade, perhaps they are not above yours?

Hell, I'm approaching minimum wage and I can still learn them. There's a book called 50 Physics Theories you really should know about, and it's only £2.99 from all good book stores.

 

[Imitation Saccharin]

2 + 2 ≠ 4 in Base 3.

2 + 2 = 10.

^Win. That's about all that can be said.

Kant weeps tears of blood.

Kant? The Philosopher? What the devil does he have to do with base 3 equations?

He wrote extensively on the theory of knowledge.

Mathmatics, at least basic additional ones, are a priori, or universally self-evident. 2 of something, apples, potatoes, naked Irish truckers, is 2 of something. 1 of something, and another 1 of something, give you 2 of something.
This is universal.

In short the original posters point is absolutely semantic, and displays a terrible ignorance of philosophy.

Hence, Kant is very sad.

 

[mtk2a]

I will admit that arguments of the specifics of quantum physics are a bit above my pay-grade, perhaps they are not above yours?

Hell, I'm approaching minimum wage and I can still learn them. There's a book called 50 Physics Theories you really should know about, and it's only £2.99 from all good book stores.

Sounds like a winner to me, I am quite interested in science and physics, as you might have guessed, maybe I'll check it out. NOW I have to go do something involving real life people, so I'll conclude by saying I enjoyed debating folks here today. Take care.

 

[mtk2a]

2 + 2 ≠ 4 in Base 3.

2 + 2 = 10.

^Win. That's about all that can be said.

Kant weeps tears of blood.

Kant? The Philosopher? What the devil does he have to do with base 3 equations?

He wrote extensively on the theory of knowledge.

Mathmatics, at least basic additional ones, are a priori, or universally self-evident. 2 of something, apples, potatoes, naked Irish truckers, is 2 of something. 1 of something, and another 1 of something, give you 2 of something.
This is universal.

In short the original posters point is absolutely semantic, and displays a terrible ignorance of philosophy.

Hence, Kant is very sad.

Basically making the same point I did in my direct response to Uncompetative's statement about Base 3. Pure semantics.

 

[gmer412]

What religion boils down to for me is a way of dealing with the crazy world we all live in. If you want to believe that there's a higher power, go ahead. Just don't try to tell me to. Forcing your beliefs on someone else doesn't work because that person may have different ways of coping with the world. Being an atheist, I think that religions have every right to pray to their gods and hold religious activities in religious places. What bothers me are the times that religions try to force their beliefs on the world. A few examples: the crusades, the belief in some forms of Christianity that everyone will go to hell if they don't convert, today's problems in the middle east w/ Muslim fundies.
In short: Aggresive religion = bad.
Peaceful religion = good.
Note: Anyone who tells me I'm going to hell for not believing what they believe is, in my mind, a person to avoid at all costs. Also, I'm strongly leaning towards Pastafarianism. The charts don't lie!

 

[NanashiDorobou]

Atheism Vs. Anti-Theism Page 7
16 posts
The actual topic involving Atheism/Antitheism is mentioned in one post. The rest concern quantum mechanics, a retarded and overused example of 2 and 2 not equalling 4 (Kant find the inequal sign... ha) and science vs religion, another topic entirely.
New metaphysical law: The definite position and direction of a thread is indeterminable from one post to the next.

 

[Wyatt]

the intent of God is to have your faith DESPITE 'lack of proof'. im a Christian BTW just in case there are questions.

anyhow ive seen talks like this over and over again through the years in all kinds of forums and my responce to all of them is allways the same.

all of history is a chain, one thing flowing from another all the way back to the start. what question all of you (and now me) are asking is is there a God or not. and that question has its ultimate begining in the question of a 'big bang' or creation. God or random chaos.

i can and have argued deep science for years. i can make a case for anti-evoultion, i can make a simple math question show 'proof' of God, i can ask simple question that cant be answered with 'science'. its all just walking around the Bush, the question starts (and ends) with creation vrs the big bang. and no one knows how it all began but the answer to this question defines all that has came afterwords. its a question without an answer.

in the end we ALL belive what we WANT to believe. just because someone puts forth an opinion and calles it either 'logic' or 'faith' DOESNT make it fact. ive read 7 pages of interesting opinions here, ive prolly read thousands of pages over the years on this very topic, mankind itself has been arguing the true nature of the universe since Adam was cast from the garden (sorry i couldnt resist) and we are no closer today to having a true answer than we were then, if you assume there WAS a God then we are further way from the truth since Adam TALKED to God and KNEW he was created not evolved.

in any event to touch base with the OPs post, i want to say it was refreshing to read something like that. as a Christian too often we howle about how our 'rights' are being trampled on in todays society (im American BTW) but we tend to gloss over how WE would trample others who dont share our faith. you totaly have a right too NOT believe in God as i have the right TO believe. neither is right or wrong we are just different, one person said here that people of faith are stupid. im sure he ment that, i mean it just as much when i said people that put all their faith in 'science' are just as stupid to my world view. the only real question and one the OP tryed to touch on is do we as human beings really need to SAY those opinions out loud? would you call a slow store clerk a moron to his face because he couldnt count change as fast as you can? would you look at a little old lady trying to run a gas pump without knowing what she was doing a moron? id hope not, so why is it that people allways feel its ok to call other peoples most deeply held believe stupid?

now ill end with a small jab at the 'science' faction. not inteneded for a bait, juswt intended for you too all mull over a bit. this argument about God or science is a losing battle from the science end. ive seen it over and over in humans, ive seen and heard all my life, ive been a 'victim' of it. this fact that people of 'science' are time and again brought to a believe in God, on the other hand ive never heard of even one case where a person that belive in God casting it aside and becoming an Atheist. people start out without any beliefs at all, they mature and form opinions some turn to God at an early age, generaly brain washed by their parents/family, some dont come to God till much later, and some never come to God at all, but ive never heard of a single time when someone came to God and then went back. ive heard of cases of people turning away from God but ive never heard one say they were wrong and there is no God at all.

faith is just that. faith. belief that there are things in this universe that we cant know and that there is a higher power who DOES know. i find science cold and lacking when it comes to this view, science can explane a sunset but it cant make it special, science can explane birth but it cant make it magical ......... i can go on but the ultimate thing i can say is that we know so little about the universe, we maybe have just crept over the lip of the first foothill guarding the ultimate understanding we all crave to know about our universe and we presume to say we are to 'smart' to belive in God based on this limited understanding of our existance?

when science can tell me everything about everything in the entire history of the universe from the begining to the end THEN ill put my faith in science, but then again if science could do that then it would BE God so nothing would really change.

 

[AuntyEthel]

ive never heard of a single time when someone came to God and then went back.

Well, here I am. I could introduce you to about 30 people I know like that.

 

[Jobz]

He wrote extensively on the theory of knowledge.

Mathmatics, at least basic additional ones, are a priori, or universally self-evident. 2 of something, apples, potatoes, naked Irish truckers, is 2 of something. 1 of something, and another 1 of something, give you 2 of something.
This is universal.

In short the original posters point is absolutely semantic, and displays a terrible ignorance of philosophy.

Hence, Kant is very sad.

Ah...see I know very little about Kant other than the Kantian Moral Theory. Philosophy 101.

 

[Alex_P]

Arguing existentialism on a message board is pointless.

Everyone is so certain of their infallibility, neither side is ever moved by the others argument.

Here's what I think: The religious and the atheist are both wrong, neither side knows shit from shit, and they're both full of jerks.

Humanity is annoying.

I'm not trying to convince anybody to be an atheist.

I'm not even trying to convince smug agnostics who think "NOBODY KNOWS!" is a brilliant intellectual leap that it's actually nothing special.

I'm trying to convince random onlookers that smug agnostics are just cowering behind sophistry.

-- Alex

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Atheism Vs. Anti-Theism Page 7
16 posts
The actual topic involving Atheism/Antitheism is mentioned in one post. The rest concern quantum mechanics, a retarded and overused example of 2 and 2 not equalling 4 (Kant find the inequal sign... ha) and science vs religion, another topic entirely.
New metaphysical law: The definite position and direction of a thread is indeterminable from one post to the next.

A little unfair, given that Math/Science is predominantly Atheistic and Anti-Theistic.

As for smug agnostics, Religion and Science both accept that they don't have all the answers; so the sensible option would be to take from both camps, surely?

 

[AuntyEthel]

I love this bible verse, so this seems to be a good place to put it...

King James Version, Second Kings 2:23-24

23: And he [Elisha] went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up that way, there came forth little children of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; Go up, thou bald head.

24: And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood and tare forty and two children of them.

Basically, according to God, if you mock people for being bald, she-bears will get you.

 

[Jobz]

I love this bible verse, so this seems to be a good place to put it...

King James Version, Second Kings 2:23-24

23: And he [Elisha] went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up that way, there came forth little children of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; Go up, thou bald head.

24: And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood and tare forty and two children of them.

Basically, according to God, if you mock people for being bald, she-bears will get you.

That gave me a chuckle.