Atheists want God stricken from inaugural oath

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cuddly_tomato

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Damien the Pigeon said:
Atheists are often upset with others for trying to push their religion on them. Well, they're doing the exact same thing that they hate. It doesn't make sense. I am all for freedom of religion, but if you're atheist, be aware that most people in America have some sort of religion. In fact, the whole country was founded on religious principles. Therefore, I don't think that the atheist protest group should be making such a big deal about it.
Yeah I have noticed the same thing. There has been a huge rise in the number of evangelistic, fundamentalist atheists in recent years who seem to believe that they are the holders of The Truth(TM). This latest saga is just another example of that.
 

Ambarato

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I'm an atheist and personally i'd like to see religion and politics completely seperate. I doubt it will happen for a while now and to be honest I don't care as long as priests and such can't get away with stuff they shouldn't be able to get away with.
 

likalaruku

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No one should have to say that, just like we shouldn't have to say the pledge in school; if you don't mean what you say or are too yound to care or know, it's all a big empty gesture, like giving an award to a dead actor.
 

Jackpot

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Mar 21, 2008
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these atheists are fucktards.

NB : The previous statement does NOT say "atheists are fucktards"
the management
 

BiscuitWheels

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fix-the-spade said:
Obama is a Christian. If he isn't going to swear an oath in front of his almighty deity, then who?
How about to the American people who elected him to the office? I'd like him to promise ME he's going to do his job.
 

medievalguy

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Oh my zeus, there is so much ignorance about America's history here it hurts. No, nowhere in the constitution does it mention the state as having to be secular, but ALSO nowhere in the constitution is "god" mentioned. In an age where religious phrases were everywhere, this can't have been anything but deliberate. (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050221/allen)

Yes, the majority of people in this country are christian of one flavor or another, but the next largest group is people who don't subscribe to any religion. There are more people in the US who don't subscribe to a religion than there are Blacks and Asians COMBINED. (See CIA Factbook)It's fair to say that the US is a nation OF christians, but not A christian nation. This fact was illuminated in the Treaty of Tripoli, 1797. Article 11 states "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" This treaty was passed unanimously (how many times does congress do that?) and many of the founding fathers were present to vote on it.

Furthermore, "Under god" was not added to the pledge until 1954, after a vigorous campaign by the Knights of Columbus, the nation's largest catholic fraternity. It was a successful attempt by the religious to extort the atmosphere of fear rampant in the McCarthy era and wed religion with patriotism. To be against the religion suddenly made you unpatriotic, which was a social death sentence in the 50's.

The "so help me god" part of the inauguration is actually not part of the offical oath. It was became popular after Roosevelt. Only 18 of the 43 presidents thus far have uttered the phrase at the end of their oath.

I think it's funny when people say it doesn't violate the establishment clause of the first amendment because "god" is not religion specific. It is. god = masculine, singular. This automatically excludes polytheists, female centered religions, and the non-theists. Everybody knows it means the judeo-christian god, hell, perhaps even the muslim god, but nobody wants to acknowledge it. It's evident by that little twinge of disgust you would get if they said "so help me Vishnu, or Sheba, or Zeus, or Jupiter, or Kinich Ahau, or Ra, or (insert never ending list of possible imaginary beings here).

I'm sorry if this pisses you off, but non-theists are never going to stop being treated as second class citizens by sitting down and shutting up.

PS. Oh, and not having "god" in the government would not be government professed atheism. It'd be neutral. If the money read "In god we do not trust", that too would be unconstitutional and would have to go. It's just best if the government didn't go there...
 

goodman528

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If Obama didn't say "so help me God". Then he'll probably get impeached for some imaginery crimes, or assassinated, whichever comes first. People already think he's an Arab Muslim Terrorist, so if now they think he's an Atheist as well (ignore the contradiction of being a muslim atheist), then who knows what would happen to him... Anyone for a public lynching?
 

Brokkr

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I think that if the person (Obama in this case) is religious, then he should be allowed to say it. However, if he didn't, then he shouldn't be made to say it either. Although that would almost me political suicide in this country, refusing to say under God because you're an atheist.
 

VaioStreams

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I couldn't give a flying rat's ass to be honest with you. the religion/political/science argument has bored to no end. so long they don't interfere with what I'm doing. they god it up or not god it up as much as they want
 

Brett Alex

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Space Spoons said:
Armitage Shanks said:
Space Spoons said:
It's a Christian nation
Really? So all that stuff in the Constitution about being a secular nation is just filler then?
Being a nation that supports the freedom to chose one's faith does not make that nation secular.
No, no no. When your country is called the Catholic Republic of America, or the Presbyterian United States, or even Anglican North America, that is when you are a christian country. When a your head of state is doubles as a christian religious leader, that is when you are a christian country.

When you are the United States of America, when your constitution allows freedom of religion and when your constitution strongly supports the separation of Church from State, that is when you are not a christian country.

A large percentage of the people of your country may be christians, but the country itself is not, and never has been.

EDIT:
medievalguy said:
It's fair to say that the US is a nation OF christians, but not A christian nation.
Hmm, seems I was ninja'd.
 

Spectre39

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Oct 6, 2008
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I apologise, I didn't look at the article. I'm a bit busy right now.

I suppose I can understand why an athiest would try and change the way a president is sworn into office. Forcing a president-elect to say "So help me God" kind of implys that the new president must answer to 'God' and therefore govern with Christain goals and ideals in mind. That does not sound like separation of church and state. What if a muslim or buddhist president was to be elected? If we truely believe in freedom of religion, someone (publicly or privately) of another faith might feel uncomfortable saying "So help me God" if they didn't believe in him specifically.

But should it be completely stricken from the oath? That might be taking it too far, I think. The religion Obama seems to be associating with is Chrstianity, so he would be completely ok with saying "So help me God". That's the beliefs of one man, and swearing to them in a public manner is ok, I think.

However, I think the oath should be optional if the president-elect is not a Christian. We should be more concerned with honesty in politics and government, not tradition.
 

TheTygerfire

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Jun 26, 2008
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Armitage Shanks said:
Space Spoons said:
It's a Christian nation
Really? So all that stuff in the Constitution about being a secular nation is just filler then?
"Freedom of Religion" was actually put in the Constitution just for the sake of one sect of Christianity to exist in America.

the US is a Christian founded and dominate nation, and I'm not saying it's a good thing at all, it's just fact.
 

Nivag the Owl

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Oct 29, 2008
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Well it's totally fair to rule out anything else in the world from anything. You.. know what I mean. I think this should be taken seriously to an extent. Not everybody is Christian.

Then again, the sooner it happens, the sooner christmas decorations will be completely banned from existance.
 

Aardvark Soup

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Jul 22, 2008
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I'm an athiest... and I don't care. Really, what does this simple line matter? The US is a very Christian nations and logically a lot of their traditions are based on that religion. If Obama himself has no problems with saying this single line, then why should you care?

Wheter you are an athiest, Christian, Hindu or worshipper of the holy teapot, you just shouldn't force your beliefs on other people and be offended by small stupid things.
 

Undead Dragon King

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Apr 25, 2008
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Since when has there ever been a "Rule of the Minority" in a democracy?

Last time I checked, Atheists were a definite minority in America. Why should they dictate how the faithful, who outnumber them 100,000 to 1, practice their religious beliefs?
 

cuddly_tomato

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Aardvark Soup said:
I'm an athiest... and I don't care. Really, what does this simple line matter? The US is a very Christian nations and logically a lot of their traditions are based on that religion. If Obama himself has no problems with saying this single line, then why should you care?

Wheter you are an athiest, Christian, Hindu or worshipper of the holy teapot, you just shouldn't force your beliefs on other people and be offended by small stupid things.
Oh come on dude that makes sense.

And since when does anything that makes sense actually become part of the political process?