Attention European Escapist! Why do you hate your country?
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I don't mind the OP referring to "Europeans". I mean yes Europe's a very diverse place but it's also generally recognised as a geographical and mostly economic, political and cultural entity. Plus there are lots of historical commonalties.
That said, i think national attitudes certainly vary from state to state in Europe. In the UK it's fairly typical to slag off your country- i mean, why wouldn't you? We've got a Tory government which is cutting back on everything (and before that we have a PM who was George Bush's pet dog, talk about a national embarrassment) many of the people here are xenophobic as fuck, our tabloids are just plain evil and the weathers a bit shitty.
I'm still proud of being British (and all my other identities), because while there are lots of things bad and wrong with Britain and the British, there are still plenty of things to be proud off. It's just that i'm also happy to say what's wrong with this place.
That said, i think national attitudes certainly vary from state to state in Europe. In the UK it's fairly typical to slag off your country- i mean, why wouldn't you? We've got a Tory government which is cutting back on everything (and before that we have a PM who was George Bush's pet dog, talk about a national embarrassment) many of the people here are xenophobic as fuck, our tabloids are just plain evil and the weathers a bit shitty.
I'm still proud of being British (and all my other identities), because while there are lots of things bad and wrong with Britain and the British, there are still plenty of things to be proud off. It's just that i'm also happy to say what's wrong with this place.
I can't remember who said this, probably Rich Hall or somone, but they said that European countries are old enough to take the piss out of themselves and be ironic about themselves. Maybe America and other places are young and stuff like that and therefore are super-patriotic (generalization).
Something I don't think all the Americans have got yet.
Europeans self-hate constantly. The way we treat our neighbours is almost always a step up from how we treat ourselves.
What we really get upset about is when the stereotypes are used wrongly though. We (UK) don't have bad teeth at all, we're one of the healthiest countries for teeth.
We are, however, deeply cynical, dour and bitter: That's what forms so much of the Comedy the US loves. Compare Mark Twain to Shakespeare. One's a young man learning about the world, one's a bitter old man talking about how things used to be.
That's your analogy.
Europeans self-hate constantly. The way we treat our neighbours is almost always a step up from how we treat ourselves.
What we really get upset about is when the stereotypes are used wrongly though. We (UK) don't have bad teeth at all, we're one of the healthiest countries for teeth.
We are, however, deeply cynical, dour and bitter: That's what forms so much of the Comedy the US loves. Compare Mark Twain to Shakespeare. One's a young man learning about the world, one's a bitter old man talking about how things used to be.
That's your analogy.
Could you americans please stop saying thing like "europeans in general" and "a european thing". Europe is continent, a landmass and nothing more. There is no european society, culture or identity. There are 50 internationally recognised sovereign states with territory located in common definitions Europe and/or membership in international European organisations, of which 44 have their capital city within Europe.
There are organisations lik the European Union and the Council of Europe but those are just bodies constructed to enforce cooperation, trade and other stuff. Sure the guys who are in charge of the EU wants Europe to become a united federation of states so we can effectivly screw up the economy on a larger scale and shut out any influence and immigration from outside of Europe. But those guys are idiots.
There are organisations lik the European Union and the Council of Europe but those are just bodies constructed to enforce cooperation, trade and other stuff. Sure the guys who are in charge of the EU wants Europe to become a united federation of states so we can effectivly screw up the economy on a larger scale and shut out any influence and immigration from outside of Europe. But those guys are idiots.
i dont think any european actually hates their country outright, its just that our patriotism is more subtle and forgive for saying this, but more rational.
what i mean is that we dont go around shoving our flags in everyone's face shouting DENMARK #1 or whatever. it took a couple of wars and terrorists, but most people are wary of unrestrained nationalism. it has led to some rather nasty business in the past. in fact inter european conflicts are so numerous and bloody that only the most terrible are remembered.
in other words i personally am content with my country, but cautious of pride. i need only to look to the far right party in my country or to a recent tragedy in our brother-country, to see how delusional and potentially dangerous nationalism can be.
EDIT: as the poster above said, europe has a shared history, but is not a monoculture. i am a dane a frenchman might have an entirely different perception
what i mean is that we dont go around shoving our flags in everyone's face shouting DENMARK #1 or whatever. it took a couple of wars and terrorists, but most people are wary of unrestrained nationalism. it has led to some rather nasty business in the past. in fact inter european conflicts are so numerous and bloody that only the most terrible are remembered.
in other words i personally am content with my country, but cautious of pride. i need only to look to the far right party in my country or to a recent tragedy in our brother-country, to see how delusional and potentially dangerous nationalism can be.
EDIT: as the poster above said, europe has a shared history, but is not a monoculture. i am a dane a frenchman might have an entirely different perception
I don't hate the UK in fact I quite like it. I lived in two other nations (China and the Netherlands) and I'd rather be in the UK. Nothing against the other nations but the UK is my home and I like being here.
Not saying that UK does not have its problems, but everywhere does. Hating a nation, be it your home nation or not, is just a bit of a daft idea. Everywhere has good points, everywhere has bad points. Hating a place is often more a reflection of the person saying it than the place itself. Of course thats not always true, if someone said they hated a wartorn and poverty stricken place that would be fair enough.
Not saying that UK does not have its problems, but everywhere does. Hating a nation, be it your home nation or not, is just a bit of a daft idea. Everywhere has good points, everywhere has bad points. Hating a place is often more a reflection of the person saying it than the place itself. Of course thats not always true, if someone said they hated a wartorn and poverty stricken place that would be fair enough.
Why do I hate the Netherlands? I don't really hate the Netherlands perse; I grew up there and still quite like the country itself. The Dutch people on the other hand...
For instance, our political system is akin to a circus. Except one where all the monkeys broke out and are now flinging poo at one another. I for instance find it rather hilarious to see that last year or so the European Union injected money into the Dutch gamedesign industry in order to stimulate it, only to see that entire sum being funded to some company that rents out cheap space for developers. Not a bad deal perse, if it weren't for the fact that the one support system they DO have that is extremely necessary in order to promote new gamedevelopment is the one support system that will be completely axed in 1 month.
So, what you get is people that have to apply for wellfare instead and the extremely lowlevel jobs that comes as an obligation with it, while the country is bitching about how they are loosing "talent to foreign countries". This being an example that just happened to influence me directly; in the end the one thing that prevented me from having to apply for wellfare was getting a scholarship to study in Japan. Irony at its best. Believe me, the clowing around doesn't stop there.
For instance, our political system is akin to a circus. Except one where all the monkeys broke out and are now flinging poo at one another. I for instance find it rather hilarious to see that last year or so the European Union injected money into the Dutch gamedesign industry in order to stimulate it, only to see that entire sum being funded to some company that rents out cheap space for developers. Not a bad deal perse, if it weren't for the fact that the one support system they DO have that is extremely necessary in order to promote new gamedevelopment is the one support system that will be completely axed in 1 month.
So, what you get is people that have to apply for wellfare instead and the extremely lowlevel jobs that comes as an obligation with it, while the country is bitching about how they are loosing "talent to foreign countries". This being an example that just happened to influence me directly; in the end the one thing that prevented me from having to apply for wellfare was getting a scholarship to study in Japan. Irony at its best. Believe me, the clowing around doesn't stop there.
Don't just blame the politicians blame the populous as well, more than half of them are apparently right wing (or stupid enough to vote that way). But yes the current government is absolutely horrible. Like for example they want the police to dole out higher fines and the police are refusing because they don't think it is fair any more. And just this morning I read about how the minister for education wants to make parents involvement in their children's education a contractual obligation! (source [http://www.joop.nl/politiek/detail/artikel/u_kind_hier_op_school_eerst_even_tekenen/])JochemDude said:
And there is the PVV (party for freedom), bunch of islamophobic racist anti-intellectual anti-democratic fascistic asswipes.
Nowadays each morning, I first read the political news (which gets me down) and follow it with some scientific news (which perks me up again). For example, E. Coli Bacteria Engineered to Eat Switchgrass and Make Transportation Fuels [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111129123307.htm], nice!
But, but, umm, but, no, yes, yet, um, but, but...The_root_of_all_evil said:
Damn, i didn't realize it wasn't only local thing.
Each day - something new i guess...
Aye, we have an annual Polar Bear Marathon where we place a couple of kids on the polar bears and then blow a dart on their behind. Lots of casualties though, which is probably why our population is so low compared to the size of the country. :/Volf99 said:
And then, there are the forest trolls and frostgiants to contend with. Despite regular sacrifices to appease Tor, they still roam largely unchecked.DanielBrown said:
No, the nations may not want to give it up but the EU seem to want that. And we have slowly but steadily given more and more power to the EU. The EU as an idea is not necesarily a bad thing. Enhancing trade and cooperation across borders is not bad and the original idea of the EU, long before it was called the "EU" which is a relativly new name, was to ensure peace in Europe.Hoplon said:
The problem is that the EU wants to make decicions that should be made on a national level. You can not always create the exact same rules for greeks and germans and spanish and expect them to work perfectly in all these countries. The EU has no right to force nations to make cutbacks in their public sector just because they think it will be good for the economy. The EU has no right to decide how many people are allowed to seeks asylum in Europe and which countries they should stay in. The EU has no right to decide what restrictions should be kept on the internet use. Yet they do all these things and more.
The EU is trying to create a "free european market" which they want to achieve by restricting the imgration from outside of Europe. They do this with the use of voilence, walls, fences and increased controls all along the borders. They criminalise imigrants but still use them for cheap labor. They claim they are "protection the nations" when their rules simply lead to increased crime rates and racism.
And their finincial politic in the EU isn't exactly going that well either. We don't need a communal currency to inrease the european market. It's not helping. The EU protects the banks and let the people of the various nations suffer for the misstakes of the capitalists. Now there is even talk of a centralized European bank that the member states should poor money into to "save the economy". Guess who's paying for that. Yeah that's right, the tax payers of Sweden and all other EU countries.
One of the representatives from the majority party the PVV (basically: a Dutch version of the NSDAP in its early days) just gave the Turkish PM a cartoon showing a degrading image of muslims and the text along the lines of "the Islam is a fake religion and spreads hate".
Why I hate my country? It currently has about 40% of the votes in the polls.
Why I hate my country? It currently has about 40% of the votes in the polls.
The EU offers bail-out money to countries like Greece on the condition that Greece does x y and z to it's economy. The IMF does exactly the same thing, if an international body is donating money it's perfectly fine to make such an offer conditional.TheCruxis said:
Labour migration is a EU matter because labour can move freely within the Schengen Zone, but countries still largely retain control of who goes in and out- The UK's barred entry to a Dutch Islamophobe MP, the French evicted all those gypsies last year.
And by necessity the EU has to set common regulations and trading practises in the common market so the whole thing works. But for those non-economic laws- why shouldn't the EU legislate in other areas? So long as such laws are passed by a democratically elected body of individuals i don't care if my laws come from London, Brussels or both.
British here. And many many things are wrong with my country. Too many to list. But with that said, it's probably among the best in Europe. And maybe, dare I say the world. Definitely in there with the top 10.
So Imagine how good it would be if we didn't have all the problems. Sigh... I can dream.
So Imagine how good it would be if we didn't have all the problems. Sigh... I can dream.
