Audio Logs are terrible.

[Ishal]

Is this real? Are we really complaining about an optional game mechanic here? Come on guys.

Yes, we are complaining about how it's done wrong when it could be done RIGHT.

It's still terrible and the problem is with games that are so clearly dependant on audio-logs to give any sense of character to the world.

You know what else is optional, the ENTIRE GAME. The problem is the same, we like what they are trying to do but they've done it wrong. I'm not saying audio-recordings-you-find-in-games are all inherently an unavoidably terrible, simply that as of now, they ARE. It's terrible how what could be such a compelling element is nothing but lazy and tedious monologuing.

(And how optional are they? It only takes a single pass-code restricted entrance or safe and you have to listen through all of the audio recordings you've found till you find one mention the code... then it isn't really optional. But that doesn't always happen, it's true you can skip them.)

For the record, Ken Levine the creative director (and writer, he wrote 93% of Bioshock) admitted that they took the somewhat "easy way out" with the audiologs in Bioshock. He said there was a reason everyone in Rapture was dead and the only people who weren't were splicers or scripted sequences (Ryan). Its like that because doing it the other way was hard to do. In Bioshock: Infinite its the opposite, the world will be populated and sequences in storytelling will play out in front of you, but supposedly there will still be audiologs.

Each person has their own view of what makes or breaks the audiolog diaries. I thought the ones in Doom 3 were pretty good. Haven't played Dishonored.

To be be honest though, they are amazing and I'll still take them wherever I can get them, know why? They are one of the last ways developers let YOU figure out the story for yourself. ITs been said earlier in the thread, but yes, they are optional, especially if they aren't put out right in front of you all the time. I'm tired of being lead through a story where I creators use quick time events and take control away from me to basically say "this is when you are sad" this is when your companion dies" blah blah. IMO that is more lazy than doing audiologs. Do a audiolog and do it right... and that lets the player decide what to feel in that moment... its all about me in a single player game, nobody fucking else.

They don't even need to be voiced, they can just be pieces of lore found scattered throughout the world like in Metroid: Prime. Reading the space pirate logs there were really great ways to see what they were doing, why they were doing it, seeing how they were reacting to your actions on the planet, etc. Some were humorous and others were ominous.

Spoiler

"Zebes has fallen. All ground personnel are presumed dead, either killed by the Hunter clad in metal or in the subsequent destruction of the underground facilities. Our research frigates Orpheon, Siriacus and Vol Paragon were in orbit at zero hour and managed to retreat. Frigate Orpheon is now docked at Vortex Outpost. Orpheon's cargo appears to have a 100% survival rate: Metroids are healthy but on restricted feeding schedules due to uncertain supply status. We are ready to begin research on the Metroids and other promising life-forms. Security status remains at Code Blue: no signs of pursuit from the Hunter."

Foreshadowing the final boss to the player

Spoiler

"Metroid Prime continues to feed and grow ever larger in the impact crater caves. Its hunger knows no bounds, and it has begun to manifest unusual mutations since its breach. These include armor plating on its epidermis and mechanical outgrowths that generate defense screens. These screens render it invulnerable to most weapon systems, but a flaw in the mutation leads to increased vulnerability to certain weapons. It compensates for this by shifting the screens quickly. This latest development concerns Security units greatly: they feel it's a matter of time before Metroid Prime corrects this defect and renders itself invulnerable to all weaponry. Containment would be nigh impossible if this were to occur."

Humorous attempts of space pirates to reverse engineer your weapons.

Spoiler

Science Team is attempting to reverse-engineer Samus Aran's arsenal, based off data acquired from her assaults on our forces. Progress is slow, but steady. Command would dearly enjoy turning Aran's weapons against her. We believe we can implement Beam weapon prototypes in three cycles. Aran's Power Suit technology remains a mystery, especially the curious Morph Ball function. All attempts at duplicating it have ended in disaster; four test subjects were horribly broken and twisted when they engaged our Morph Ball prototypes. Science Team wisely decided to move on afterward."

 

[Therumancer]

I think Dishonored was bad about this, what with the 'spy master' villain keeping incriminating evidence that would get himself executed just lying around.

Yes, this always bugged me. Part of the thing about espionage, conspiricies, etc... is to keep no records of anything at all, which is why it's so easy to dismiss any accusations of wrongdoing and laugh at anyone who points to such things because it's impossible to prove. It's not just "Dishonored" but pretty much any game/movie/book/TV Show which revolves around stealing these kinds of secret records or proof of conspiricies as it misses the entire point.

Reality tends to be situations where the goverment does something "stupid" like pay $25,000 for a hammer or toilet seat. In reality they took that money and used it to send say Seal Team 6 (or whomever) to whack someone. Nobody writes down "today we sent Seal Team 6 to kill these people we didn't like to cover up our plans". The guys get told to do something off the record, with no paper trail, and the most anyone will ever be able to find is MAYBE some bean counter finding referance to the overpriced hammer which won't amount to anything more than a "Lol, goverment waste" mention later on down the road.

I do have to admit I would find it darkly amusing if someone was stupid enough to actually keep detailed records of things like that as they do in a spy drama. Of course if they did, the irony of it would be that nobody would believe it because the idea is just so utterly stupid.

Speaking for myself with the recent demise of Hugo Chavez I've been waiting to hear a goverment waste report from around the same time period, though I guess they have gotten a little more subtle than that in recent years. Given the exile of US diplomats after his demise and accusations of attempts to "destabilize the country" not to mention him more or less being on our list for years, I doubt many people don't see the writing on the wall with that one... but I can virtually guarantee there is no paperwork anywhere that will ever confirm it.

 

[snekadid]

They worked in bioshock because of a variety of reasons. Some were leaving messages, some were making research notes and some were diaries, there were even some cracked people, but for alot of them it was because there was no one else they could talk to.

Even before the adam had reached the toxic/crazy level in the people of Rapture, people were already deeply unnerved and stressed over living under the sea, creating psychosis and generally wearing people thin. This was made worse by the increasingly dictatorial laws and treatment of the citizenry, turning Rapture into a version of "1984" where you couldn't trust anyone as they could rat you out for preferential treatment for even small offenses whether real or not.

This created a atmosphere where humans( a social animal) was stretched thin and unable to talk to others about their problems or thoughts and as seen in real life under similar circumstances, they identified with the recording devices as something that would "listen to them" in much the same way some people will talk to their pets.

The fountaine evil villain speech is easier to explain. He was a egotistical asshole that never thought he would get caught because he was too smart/clever for the people around him to catch onto. It's a behavior you see alot in embezzlers and con-artists.

On the other hand, I have a deep dislike for the audio logs in Singularity due to poor writing, crap content(I honestly can't remember hearing anything of any import from any of them) and people making personal recordings on what amounts to a heavy piece of equipment rather then small hand held devices one could understand as being for personal use.

 

[Treblaine]

Am I correct in assuming that your problem with audio logs is not audio-logs-as-messages or audio-logs-as-dialogue-recordings, but audio-logs-as-diaries (audio diaries, in other words)?

If so, what difference would a text diary make for you?

If not, then my question is at best tangential to this topic.

Well for one, when the game has terminally boring diary entries and the only reasons you'd listen to them is to get a code, then with a text-diary you can just skim over to find the code. I don't like being coerced to listen and actually pay attention to such dreary exposition just to get a code. Especially when you don't know in which diary entry the code is contained so you have to listen to loads of them and can't speed it up.

Also I can read quite fast with good comprehension, so even when I want to read every word, I can get the information in much quicker than through listening to an audio recording. Then, of course, it's much more natural for people to write or type down their memoires than make audio recordings. Plus, there is no chance a text-diary can be ruined by having it read by an under-paid and over-worked voice actor who could make the snappiest prose fall dead. As inevitably happens when actors have to read long scripts with little to work with.

Also, I am pissed off when ALMOST THE ENTIRE PLOT/CHARACTER EXPOSITION of games is delivered through Audio-monologues/diaries. They seem the least compelling way of getting things across, it's just a flat information dump. How do you make a diary sound interesting without the person who is telling the audio diary act out of character as some Thespian who - even when recording for their own memoirs - to make it sound lively and engaging.

If you are going to have audio recordings the best use is in recording dialogue, especially when either one of them, or both of them are not aware they are being recorded. Or they are obliged to respond to spite being recorded. Then you can have a natural conversation, natural exposition... rather than the contrivance of the recording being for whoever happens to find it.

And for messages and notes, people don't make tape recordings for messages.

"Oh great, I've been given a message on a tape again. Where the hell is my tape player... and it doesn't look like they even rewound it. Why can't they just leave a simple paper note like normal people. I can read it right away and get straight to the point."

And I am not a good actor, but my limited experience is that you can get much better performances, working in a scene, working with something. When you have dialogue and your lines working off each other, it just helps with everything. And you can just get more through using dialogue, every question is in itself revealing, the context of the questions and how they are answered.

 

[Brainwreck]

They were pretty cool in the Arkham games.
Otherwise... yeeeaaaahhhhh, no. They can curl up and wither in some dark corner.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Finally! Someone else feels the same way about this!

Before I first tried Bioshock I kept hearing how the audio logs really help support it's dark and unique atmosphere. When I actually played the game... I hated them. It's not just audio logs either. I just apparently hate when most of the story in a game is told through monologue. One of the worst stories I have ever experienced in a game was Modern Warfare 2, not only because it showcased writing on the level of a Steven Seagal movie, but because most of the story is either given to you in loading screen briefs or by people yelling in your face/over radios. It was impossible to tell what the fuck was going on for half the time.

Agreed, I find it as bad as an info dump,. the only times I have liked them have been the Arkham games for a bit of back story and Transformers: Fall of Cybertron, but they're probably because I'm a huge fan, in a new game world, they seem too forced most of the time.

By the way, like your new avatar Fappy

Snip

Metroid Prime. How could I forget one of my most favorite games as an example of how to do it right!? Great post and good call on that one!

 

[Warachia]

I disagree, in survival horror games audio logs can be used really well, you can have a room with a dead body in it, the log detailing that persons last moments, you can see how they died by looking around and noticing "that's where they were at this point in the log" and they can be really useful for giving tips on how to fight/avoid enemies and can be used as triggers to spawn an enemy, putting you in the same position as the person who made the log.

 

[Extra-Ordinary]

Personally I like audio logs, gives me something to collect and search for as well as flesh out the world and characters. Though I admit that a main villain recording his own plan and leaving it hidden in multiple parts of the world is very silly.

Same here.
And in defense of Bioshock, the city was pretty dead so I see it as a pretty good reason to have the audio diaries.
However, they do make a comeback in Columbia and that city is very much alive so I don't know what they're going to be for.

 

[Treblaine]

For the record, Ken Levine the creative director (and writer, he wrote 93% of Bioshock) admitted that they took the somewhat "easy way out" with the audiologs in Bioshock. He said there was a reason everyone in Rapture was dead and the only people who weren't were splicers or scripted sequences (Ryan). Its like that because doing it the other way was hard to do. In Bioshock: Infinite its the opposite, the world will be populated and sequences in storytelling will play out in front of you, but supposedly there will still be audiologs.

Each person has their own view of what makes or breaks the audiolog diaries. I thought the ones in Doom 3 were pretty good. Haven't played Dishonored.

To be be honest though, they are amazing and I'll still take them wherever I can get them, know why? They are one of the last ways developers let YOU figure out the story for yourself. ITs been said earlier in the thread, but yes, they are optional, especially if they aren't put out right in front of you all the time. I'm tired of being lead through a story where I creators use quick time events and take control away from me to basically say "this is when you are sad" this is when your companion dies" blah blah. IMO that is more lazy than doing audiologs. Do a audiolog and do it right... and that lets the player decide what to feel in that moment... its all about me in a single player game, nobody fucking else.

They don't even need to be voiced, they can just be pieces of lore found scattered throughout the world like in Metroid: Prime. Reading the space pirate logs there were really great ways to see what they were doing, why they were doing it, seeing how they were reacting to your actions on the planet, etc. Some were humorous and others were ominous.

Spoiler

"Zebes has fallen. All ground personnel are presumed dead, either killed by the Hunter clad in metal or in the subsequent destruction of the underground facilities. Our research frigates Orpheon, Siriacus and Vol Paragon were in orbit at zero hour and managed to retreat. Frigate Orpheon is now docked at Vortex Outpost. Orpheon's cargo appears to have a 100% survival rate: Metroids are healthy but on restricted feeding schedules due to uncertain supply status. We are ready to begin research on the Metroids and other promising life-forms. Security status remains at Code Blue: no signs of pursuit from the Hunter."

Foreshadowing the final boss to the player

Spoiler

"Metroid Prime continues to feed and grow ever larger in the impact crater caves. Its hunger knows no bounds, and it has begun to manifest unusual mutations since its breach. These include armor plating on its epidermis and mechanical outgrowths that generate defense screens. These screens render it invulnerable to most weapon systems, but a flaw in the mutation leads to increased vulnerability to certain weapons. It compensates for this by shifting the screens quickly. This latest development concerns Security units greatly: they feel it's a matter of time before Metroid Prime corrects this defect and renders itself invulnerable to all weaponry. Containment would be nigh impossible if this were to occur."

Humorous attempts of space pirates to reverse engineer your weapons.

Spoiler

Science Team is attempting to reverse-engineer Samus Aran's arsenal, based off data acquired from her assaults on our forces. Progress is slow, but steady. Command would dearly enjoy turning Aran's weapons against her. We believe we can implement Beam weapon prototypes in three cycles. Aran's Power Suit technology remains a mystery, especially the curious Morph Ball function. All attempts at duplicating it have ended in disaster; four test subjects were horribly broken and twisted when they engaged our Morph Ball prototypes. Science Team wisely decided to move on afterward."

Yeah, I guess. I think I even said in the OP "I know I shouldn't complain".

It's just...

I find it unbearable. In my first play-through I listened to them all, expecting them to get good. But they didn't. Looking back it's so back it makes me wish they weren't there at all. That there has to be a better alternative.

They are one of the last ways developers let YOU figure out the story for yourself. ITs been said earlier in the thread, but yes, they are optional, especially if they aren't put out right in front of you all the time. I'm tired of being lead through a story where I creators use quick time events and take control away from me to basically say "this is when you are sad" this is when your companion dies" blah blah. IMO that is more lazy than doing audiologs.

Amen to that.

But I guess I'm one to look a gift horse in the mouth.

When I look back at even older games like Metal Gear Solid 1. That dialogue keeps me engaged even to this day, even though I can skip codec calls, I don't have a compulsion to with any. It actually has a really neat skipping mechanic, you first switch to text only and skip through text frame by text frame in case you simply want to read through it very fast.

And I remember playing Metal Gear Solid as a kid and I thought "wow, this is what games are going to be like now, huh?" Except I've yet to play another game to have it that good. And these games with audio recordings scattered everywhere just seem like a tease.

I know those aren't audio logs, they are codec calls. But a lot of them function very much like them. A lot of those calls you have to "search for". You have to have something, do something or look at something then call the right person then you'll get that unique piece of dialogue. You never have to call Natasha once in the game, but you can, and you can get very different calls depending on the circumstance.

I mean I'm not a big shot writer, I've never had anything I've written published. For the "Fontaine reveals Atlas con" audio recording, they have both the voice actor for Fontaine and Mrs McClintok in the same studio recording, why couldn't it have been a failed attempt by McClintok to entrap Altas by recording a confrontation, rather than such a bonehead "I'm going to record the most incriminating confession ever".

 

[Treblaine]

Again, replacing all audio logs with cutscenes isn't feasible. They're there to add to the story, they're not taking the cutscenes' place.

Not what I want AT ALL. I cannot emphasise that enough.

What I'm saying is backstory for a main character needs to be done by something significant, not just an audio log of them expositing their background.

I'm not contradicting myself. You don't have to interrupt gameplay to spice it up now and then. And I'm talking about audio logs in general, not the specific ones you're directing all your complaints at.

But I specifically have a problem with audio LOGS! That is where characters blatantly just log what's happened and what they think and so on.

And I don't find characters flat exposition to spice anything up, even though they may be talking about something interesting and relevant they suck the life out of it with such a mode of delivery. Especially when it's such a dramatic environment and they are talking in the relaxed unconcerned tones of before anything huge went wrong.

LISTEN CAREFULLY

Turn subtitles on.

DOH!

I almost never have subtitles on. It's especially annoying when the subtitles are different from what's actually being said or it shows clearly what is really inaudible. That and I usually read ahead of subtitles and it ruins pacing. It would be great if there were subtitles just for audio. Actually, with that, why not just have text-diaries?

 

[Treblaine]

I disagree, in survival horror games audio logs can be used really well, you can have a room with a dead body in it, the log detailing that persons last moments, you can see how they died by looking around and noticing "that's where they were at this point in the log" and they can be really useful for giving tips on how to fight/avoid enemies and can be used as triggers to spawn an enemy, putting you in the same position as the person who made the log.

Oh now hang on, that's a "final desperate message to no-one". Very different from the "logs" you get of another person dryly talking about the banal things that just happened at a very boring time of day.

Those messages you describe, those are dramatic... but there aren't going to be very many of them.

Most are going to be really flat and boring as they are talking about mundane details before the shit hit the fan and when they aren't even trying to hold anyone's attention in a conversation, they are just fact dumping for posterity, likely to be transcribed later.

 

[Treblaine]

Personally I like audio logs, gives me something to collect and search for as well as flesh out the world and characters. Though I admit that a main villain recording his own plan and leaving it hidden in multiple parts of the world is very silly.

Yeah, but couldn't it be BETTER?

I appreciate that games should give you something to collect after much searching and there is something me gusta about that, but that should be a starting point not an end point.

The villain's 'confession log' is just the most extreme example of "why is this even here?" reaction to finding an audio recording. It may add to the back story but then detracts from it by the contrivance of the recording even being made.

I guess I too like the concept of finding Audio-recordings. But no, no more contrived monologuing. Or at least, not without either very extreme circumstances or very odd character who would be the type to record detailed audio-diaries and that can't be true for every character in the plot.

 

[Ishal]

For the record, Ken Levine the creative director (and writer, he wrote 93% of Bioshock) admitted that they took the somewhat "easy way out" with the audiologs in Bioshock. He said there was a reason everyone in Rapture was dead and the only people who weren't were splicers or scripted sequences (Ryan). Its like that because doing it the other way was hard to do. In Bioshock: Infinite its the opposite, the world will be populated and sequences in storytelling will play out in front of you, but supposedly there will still be audiologs.

Each person has their own view of what makes or breaks the audiolog diaries. I thought the ones in Doom 3 were pretty good. Haven't played Dishonored.

To be be honest though, they are amazing and I'll still take them wherever I can get them, know why? They are one of the last ways developers let YOU figure out the story for yourself. ITs been said earlier in the thread, but yes, they are optional, especially if they aren't put out right in front of you all the time. I'm tired of being lead through a story where I creators use quick time events and take control away from me to basically say "this is when you are sad" this is when your companion dies" blah blah. IMO that is more lazy than doing audiologs. Do a audiolog and do it right... and that lets the player decide what to feel in that moment... its all about me in a single player game, nobody fucking else.

They don't even need to be voiced, they can just be pieces of lore found scattered throughout the world like in Metroid: Prime. Reading the space pirate logs there were really great ways to see what they were doing, why they were doing it, seeing how they were reacting to your actions on the planet, etc. Some were humorous and others were ominous.

Spoiler

"Zebes has fallen. All ground personnel are presumed dead, either killed by the Hunter clad in metal or in the subsequent destruction of the underground facilities. Our research frigates Orpheon, Siriacus and Vol Paragon were in orbit at zero hour and managed to retreat. Frigate Orpheon is now docked at Vortex Outpost. Orpheon's cargo appears to have a 100% survival rate: Metroids are healthy but on restricted feeding schedules due to uncertain supply status. We are ready to begin research on the Metroids and other promising life-forms. Security status remains at Code Blue: no signs of pursuit from the Hunter."

Foreshadowing the final boss to the player

Spoiler

"Metroid Prime continues to feed and grow ever larger in the impact crater caves. Its hunger knows no bounds, and it has begun to manifest unusual mutations since its breach. These include armor plating on its epidermis and mechanical outgrowths that generate defense screens. These screens render it invulnerable to most weapon systems, but a flaw in the mutation leads to increased vulnerability to certain weapons. It compensates for this by shifting the screens quickly. This latest development concerns Security units greatly: they feel it's a matter of time before Metroid Prime corrects this defect and renders itself invulnerable to all weaponry. Containment would be nigh impossible if this were to occur."

Humorous attempts of space pirates to reverse engineer your weapons.

Spoiler

Science Team is attempting to reverse-engineer Samus Aran's arsenal, based off data acquired from her assaults on our forces. Progress is slow, but steady. Command would dearly enjoy turning Aran's weapons against her. We believe we can implement Beam weapon prototypes in three cycles. Aran's Power Suit technology remains a mystery, especially the curious Morph Ball function. All attempts at duplicating it have ended in disaster; four test subjects were horribly broken and twisted when they engaged our Morph Ball prototypes. Science Team wisely decided to move on afterward."

Yeah, I guess. I think I even said in the OP "I know I shouldn't complain".

It's just...

I find it unbearable. In my first play-through I listened to them all, expecting them to get good. But they didn't. Looking back it's so back it makes me wish they weren't there at all. That there has to be a better alternative.

They are one of the last ways developers let YOU figure out the story for yourself. ITs been said earlier in the thread, but yes, they are optional, especially if they aren't put out right in front of you all the time. I'm tired of being lead through a story where I creators use quick time events and take control away from me to basically say "this is when you are sad" this is when your companion dies" blah blah. IMO that is more lazy than doing audiologs.

Amen to that.

But I guess I'm one to look a gift horse in the mouth.

When I look back at even older games like Metal Gear Solid 1. That dialogue keeps me engaged even to this day, even though I can skip codec calls, I don't have a compulsion to with any. It actually has a really neat skipping mechanic, you first switch to text only and skip through text frame by text frame in case you simply want to read through it very fast.

And I remember playing Metal Gear Solid as a kid and I thought "wow, this is what games are going to be like now, huh?" Except I've yet to play another game to have it that good. And these games with audio recordings scattered everywhere just seem like a tease.

I know those aren't audio logs, they are codec calls. But a lot of them function very much like them. A lot of those calls you have to "search for". You have to have something, do something or look at something then call the right person then you'll get that unique piece of dialogue. You never have to call Natasha once in the game, but you can, and you can get very different calls depending on the circumstance.

I mean I'm not a big shot writer, I've never had anything I've written published. For the "Fontaine reveals Atlas con" audio recording, they have both the voice actor for Fontaine and Mrs McClintok in the same studio recording, why couldn't it have been a failed attempt by McClintok to entrap Altas by recording a confrontation, rather than such a bonehead "I'm going to record the most incriminating confession ever".

Bollocks. You should complain, there are no sacred cows in the industry. Was it you who said that earlier in the thread? You'd be right. Complain til your hearts content, by being annoying entitled brats we keep developers listening and cause change. You are doing nothing wrong.

I'll keep talking about bioshock: Infinite. I think whats going to happen in that game is you are just going to walk around and hear people talking about events and the narrative will be revealed that way, and audiologs will complement them, at least thats what I'm hoping.

"Those damn vox populi anarchists, did you hear they started a riot in the manufacturing district yesterday?"

"Yeah I heard, my brother is a policeman and he said it was a very dangerous situation, they needed to call in the military to put it down, several people were killed"

"Lawd have mercaay, will the violence eva end? Sometimes I think all this violence will cause the whole damn city to come crashin' down to the ground."

Stuff like that will be able to be told by other AI's instead of you going through the factory and hearing a foreman shouting at how the workers are after him and all the gunshots and shouting can be heard outside.

Ultimately I think its hard to avoid predictable stuff when you have lots of the antagonist (like fontaine) dialogue in audio recordings. Almost certainly you'll have the "intro logs" the "look at all the evil things I've done logs" then the inevitable and predictable exposition logs like the fontain mclintock recording you mention. Its just one thing thats tough to avoid, and its okay we criticize it.

The metal gear solid moments were no doubt great (I never played them, too violent and parents wouldn't let me touch it when I was younger when they were released) but I'd wager nostalgia has some effect there too. Its just that after playing far cry 3 I just felt dejected and removed from the big plot moments. It was very dull with lots of big "set piece/cinematic moments" I was only able to to certain things in those situation where actions were being done to me where I couldn't do anything. I had to watch myself get knocked out or thrown off a bridge or whatever. Its just not a game anymore after that. It was made even worse by the actual gameplay being fun. Taking over camps and gunning down pirates rambo style only to be mashing a button to climb up a broken ladder later in a qte... its like why? lol


Watch this, Ken talks about some of things you are referring to. 9:40 is about where he starts talking about it.

Spoiler

 

[Treblaine]

They worked in bioshock because of a variety of reasons. Some were leaving messages, some were making research notes and some were diaries, there were even some cracked people, but for alot of them it was because there was no one else they could talk to.

Suchong's recordings went well beyond research notes and well into details that would be better demonstrated if they were recorded having to explain it to another person in dialogue.

Even before the adam had reached the toxic/crazy level in the people of Rapture, people were already deeply unnerved and stressed over living under the sea, creating psychosis and generally wearing people thin. This was made worse by the increasingly dictatorial laws and treatment of the citizenry, turning Rapture into a version of "1984" where you couldn't trust anyone as they could rat you out for preferential treatment for even small offenses whether real or not.

Yeah, this still comes more as working backwards from why they kept all these oh-so-convenient audio logs exist, rather than working naturally forward from the situation.

With the secret police out to incriminate you WHY ARE YOU RECORDING YOUR PRIVATE THOUGHTS! What if the secret police find the tapes, you found them easily enough, the first thing they'll do is study them and use anything in them against you.

This created a atmosphere where humans( a social animal) was stretched thin and unable to talk to others about their problems or thoughts and as seen in real life under similar circumstances, they identified with the recording devices as something that would "listen to them" in much the same way some people will talk to their pets.

I already covered this in my OP.

Conspirators resisting Ryan would conspire, and these meetings likely bugged. So would informants also wear "wires". Also evil organisations would record their meetings like officious evil councils they are.

And sorry, it's not obvious at all that people stopped talking to other people out of fear of the state. I mean they would say that on the audio logs at least "I'm telling you this because I've got no one else to trust". Plus we get audio logs from the good times when everything seems to be going great and THEN see a decline.

People talk to their pets with a certain amount of candidness because THEY KNOW THEY WON'T GO BLABBING TO ANYONE ELSE! But a tape recorder... it is the one thing that is designed for nothing other than doing precisely that. It will repeat verbatim what is spoken to it with no ambiguity if it's a lie.

The fountaine evil villain speech is easier to explain. He was a egotistical asshole that never thought he would get caught because he was too smart/clever for the people around him to catch onto. It's a behavior you see alot in embezzlers and con-artists.

Uuuh, that's the same logic as Bond Villains gloating to their captives and it's become a laughable cliche.

Villains should only ever monologue their plan if they had some chance of turning you to join them.

And NO this is NOT a behaviour often seen by embezzlers and con-artists, they are only found out by detailed investigations and constantly deny everything, with cases being very hard to prove. What does NOT happen is that upon the police raiding their home they immediately find a recording they made gloating about exactly what they did and how they did it. That's their most private and secret thoughts just put out there for no gain and every chance of losing everything.

 

[springheeljack]

Yeah I do not really like audio logs I thought they were alright in Bioshock but they were kind of forgettable and I remember thinking it was really weird that a guy like Atlas or Ryan would just leave their logs just lying around in strange areas
It would be a lot more immerse if you only found audio logs on dead bodies and in really secure safes
I much prefer finding diaries scraps of information news paper entries etc
But even then if they are not handled right they can be annoying

 

[TakeshiLive]

My good audio log example, Ulysses from The Lonesome Road DLC for Fallout New Vegas. Good voice acting and writing whilst also expanding the history between Ulysses and your journeys.

 

[Treblaine]

Bollocks. You should complain, there are no sacred cows in the industry. Was it you who said that earlier in the thread? You'd be right. Complain til your hearts content, by being annoying entitled brats we keep developers listening and cause change. You are doing nothing wrong.

I'll keep talking about bioshock: Infinite.

Good, but I'm going dry on Biofinite for now. A bit too much is being revealed and I'm just going to wait for the reviews.

Ultimately I think its hard to avoid predictable stuff when you have lots of the antagonist (like fontaine) dialogue in audio recordings. Almost certainly you'll have the "intro logs" the "look at all the evil things I've done logs" then the inevitable and predictable exposition logs like the fontain mclintock recording you mention. Its just one thing thats tough to avoid, and its okay we criticize it.

Except there's less than 2 minutes of all the audio-logs of Fontaine.

Establishing Dialogue with Fontaine could be achieved. One way is an interrogator recording a prisoner being tortured for information then Fontaine walks in, establishes he's the boss, pile on the evil with the circumstance then have him order the interrogator do something so horrible it shocks even the seasoned torturer.

And it's just with the sounds... the torture itself is left to the imagination. That's the best place to leave grizzly things, they make it bad, but not too bad.

I suggested there are other ways of revealing Fontaine's villainy and his alter ego, like in the proposed McClintok entrapment attempt, recording a confrontation with Atlas.

The metal gear solid moments were no doubt great (I never played them, too violent and parents wouldn't let me touch it when I was younger when they were released) but I'd wager nostalgia has some effect there too. Its just that after playing far cry 3 I just felt dejected and removed from the big plot moments. It was very dull with lots of big "set piece/cinematic moments" I was only able to to certain things in those situation where actions were being done to me where I couldn't do anything. I had to watch myself get knocked out or thrown off a bridge or whatever. Its just not a game anymore after that. It was made even worse by the actual gameplay being fun. Taking over camps and gunning down pirates rambo style only to be mashing a button to climb up a broken ladder later in a qte... its like why? lol

I'd say MGS1 has aged very well, don't be afraid of checking it out in 2013.

Thing is nostalgia hasn't worked for other things. I liked Perfect Dark even more but playing today EEEEEESHH, no no no!

BTW, you played Far Cry 3... did you find the chase sequence where (after escaping from the burning mansion) you found that incredibly easy? You had a one-hit-kill grenade launcher and the jeeps would come one at a time and with a huge gap in between them.

I'm really torn on Far Cry 3... does so much right... yet so much wrong.

 

[Doom972]

I think that audio logs are a lazy way to tell a story. I find it harder to replay games that rely on them as a major storytelling tool, and on the first playthrough I hate having to just stay in one room and do nothing until the log ends because I don't know if I'll be able to hear all of it if I continue playing.

 

[snekadid]

Do you even know the meaning of psychosis? You're defending argument against mental and emotional instability is assuming straight rational thought?

There wouldn't be bugged meetings because miniaturization wasn't the technological path this society went down and seeing as how these taperecorder decks were used by even the highest of Rapture I'm going to go on a limb and say that's the best they have."I'm sorry, could you say that highly incriminating sentence again directly into the rectangular tumor on my chest?"

Did you play Bioshock? Several of the logs mention being afraid of neighbors, people on the street, basically an all out state of paranoia about the world around them. I think I realized your problem with the logs in the game, you want someone to hold your hand and tell you everything about everything, but that takes away from the game. You want a log with fountaine torturing someone while taping it and your complaining about him incriminating himself with a diary entry?

The logs as is lead to imagination filling in the blanks which is so much better then the slog of being told everything directly that they want you to know. I have to say I've recorded myself talking for records far more then I have walked into a room, plopped down a recorder and started taping our small talk. Alot of what you're suggesting just removes realism.

I'm not going to argue the reality of an egoist mentality over the internet, I'm just going to leave it at they get caught because they think they're smarter then you and they end up making a mistake because of it. Fountaine fulfills the mold nicely and in a realistic tone.