Audio Logs are terrible.

[Treblaine]

They're a hell of a lot better than text logs.

Well, in theory maybe.

But in practice you can have the problem of voice acting so boring it's like digitalised chloroform, and you can't skim through or quick read an audio recording. You can't even pause going through it, at best just cancel the playback. And if the prose won't engage you when reading it yourself then it's ALL on the voice actor to do a good job of it, and when you have to record hundreds of hours with many different characters that doesn't tend to deliver the ideal performances.

I guess it CAN be very good... but only if really well put together. Metal Gear Solid nailed it, there was almost always some background music and consistent use of motifs and variations on morifs, so consistently was there some sort of backing score that it actually created tension when for one eerie encounter there was no background music.

 

[dagens24]

I LOVE a good audio log; especially in creepy games.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Meh. The only game where I actually liked audio logs was System Shock 2.

 

[snekadid]

Hey you brought up psychosis for no reason... so you can talk about it but I can't? And you don't really have a basis for claiming EVERYONE was mentally/emotionally incapable of sharing their thoughts or information with each other, which was the basis of why they poured out to... of all things... tape recorders.

J Edgar Hoover had been bugging conversations since before WWII, it was well within Ryan or Fontaine's capabilities in 1960. Those tape-decks were also used by the lowest income workers, I don't think Rapture's economic ideology was the kind of place where all had equal access to the highest technology. It's not such a stretch someone could wear a wire... not as much as them recording their own confessions for no reason.

Please, you are clutching at straws for why Bioshock did it this way and didn't do it the way I suggested.

I think I realized your problem with the logs in the game, you want someone to hold your hand and tell you everything about everything

I have no idea how you could get that from when I say:

"I don't want them to directly tell me what have been going on"

I want more natural back-and-forth discussion which is harder to glean because they are answering each others questions and queries, not just information dumping.

You want a log with fountaine torturing someone while taping it and your complaining about him incriminating himself with a diary entry?

There is a reason for Fontaine to have people tortured, and that the torturer might record the interrogation, and that Fontaine may enter and say something not realising he was also being recorded.

There is no reason Fontaine would just record his deepest darkest secrets on tape.

I have to say I've recorded myself talking for records far more then I have walked into a room, plopped down a recorder and started taping our small talk.

What do you mean "taping out small talk". Only important conversations would be recorded and it's extremely rare for people to record vital details of their lives.

People talk to each other, it's a natural way that their knowledge and opinions can get out of their heads.

I'm not going to argue the reality of an egoist mentality over the internet, I'm just going to leave it at they get caught because they think they're smarter then you and they end up making a mistake because of it.

But you could at least explain why he did the most bonehead thing in the world of recording his plans in the most self-incriminating way?

no reason? Not only logs but human nature from being trapped in a enclosed space for a very long period of time.

Talking about hoover doesn't mean anything since that isn't this world. Bioshock takes place in a alternate history timeline, which is why steam powered turrets and sentry bots are possible.

I refuse to explain Egotism again since you haven't actually read anything placed here. You keep arguing using what you want as if thats a reality for something better, but when I've listed text book examples and actual evidence provided within the game environment you say that "THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN" like that would be a argument, which its not because it happens all the time.

If I'm grasping at straws then you missed entirely since your entire argument is that more conversation would make a game thats supposed to make you feel isolated and nervous would fit better, which is nonsense.

Logs work for Bioshock because of the nature of the story and the intended atmosphere its supposed to foster. They enhance this through not only the content of the log but the absences, people that are themselves alone, in more way than one.

Logs don't work in alot of games, audio logs in less but Bioshock stands as a good example of a way to make them work, and your method would make the game weaker over all.

I'm done with this thread, as I thought this was a discussion thread however you've shown a lack of respect to every post that doesn't agree to your own while replying with the same thing the person was arguing against. Rant threads are so tedious.

 

[Treblaine]

But text diaries are even worse.

Most people can't be bothered reading things for themselves. That's why it's nice having it read to you, with option subtitles you can follow if you need to.

How many people read all the optional text on the various computer terminals in Fallout 3 and New Vegas? Not many I'm guessing.
Most people just look at it and think "TL;DR", and just click through them.

Yeah but the real question is do they not read them because they don't like reading long text (which is perfectly fine), or because simply what is said there is just not engaging enough for them to bother reading.

I mean it's not like screens are hugely impractical to read, or forums like this wouldn't exist. If it's the latter then the problem isn't removed by having it read out, it's still un-engaging but at least they got it over with, probably by mostly busying them self with another in game task while the audio drones on about life in Rapture when things were pretty boring.

What would be considered quite a long audio message is generally quite a short text-document. It may demand undivided attention but as far as info dumps go, I think text has certain advantages. Reading can be an interesting way of getting inside people's heads in ways only the most skilled orators can hope to achieve... the problem is how do you get them to open their minds and read it, not easy, depends on very skilled writing and brutal use of the editor's delete key.

I really liked Bioshock audio logs. It made the game more atmospheric to me.
But that's because the story in Bioshock is primarily told using audio. Characters contact you on your radio all the time. Because of that audio logs were a perfect fit for Bioshock. They really brought some of it's characters to life. They brought Rapture to life. I don't think Bioshock would have benefited from text logs. Quite the opposite actually.

They're a hell of a lot better than text logs.

It really depends on the game. Sometimes audio feels right, sometimes text feels right. There is no one and only correct answer.

Well it's an interesting matter of consistency. Tape recordings and radio messages are almost TOO similar, the sound of the audio even has the exact same artefacts where you'd think a tape recording and radio broadcast should have more distinct filters.

It all does blur together a bit, it's easy to forget what was said to you in a one sided conversation with a mute, and the very similar "audio diary to no one" type recordings.

I suppose Bioshock didn't suit long text documents as in general it wasn't very detail focused. There was no inventory of any sort, no crafting, it seemed to be as stripped down as possible down to leaning a lot on the audio.

 

[Treblaine]

no reason? Not only logs but human nature from being trapped in a enclosed space for a very long period of time.

But how does that lead to psychosis to the extent you describe? People in prison are locked up and put under even greater pressures from authorities, they still talk to each other. And the same for prison camps where entire populations are incarcerated.

Talking about hoover doesn't mean anything since that isn't this world. Bioshock takes place in a alternate history timeline, which is why steam powered turrets and sentry bots are possible.

And the divergence was 1945, long after Hoover's FBI and other organisations were well known for their wire-tapping abilities. And technology kept entering Rapture after that time.

I refuse to explain Egotism again since you haven't actually read anything placed here. You keep arguing using what you want as if thats a reality for something better, but when I've listed text book examples and actual evidence provided within the game environment you say that "THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN" like that would be a argument, which its not because it happens all the time.

How do you know what I have and have not read, and I didn't say "THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN". You haven't really addressed what I said.

Also, textbook examples... from which textbook?

If I'm grasping at straws then you missed entirely since your entire argument is that more conversation would make a game thats supposed to make you feel isolated and nervous would fit better, which is nonsense.

Not conversations with the player-character, conversations between non-player characters. And it's a game where you are not that isolated, two people regulalry contact you, Atlas and Tenenbaum, as well as meet a few other characters. Also the taped audio diaries do talk at you to a large extent.

Logs work for Bioshock because of the nature of the story and the intended atmosphere its supposed to foster. They enhance this through not only the content of the log but the absences, people that are themselves alone, in more way than one.

That doesn't really explain much, they work because they... do?

How is atmosphere enhanced through the content that would be contradicted by my suggestions? And what do you mean by absences?

Logs don't work in alot of games, audio logs in less but Bioshock stands as a good example of a way to make them work, and your method would make the game weaker over all.

I'm done with this thread, as I thought this was a discussion thread however you've shown a lack of respect to every post that doesn't agree to your own while replying with the same thing the person was arguing against. Rant threads are so tedious.

How would hearing recordings of conversations between characters "make the game weaker over all" compared to having almost all the audio recordings found being a stream-of-consciousness information dump?

This is a discussion forum. Its not a lack of respect to ask that you explain your declarations.

 

[Mr.PlanetEater]

They're a hell of a lot better than text logs.

Depends, some of the lore books in the TES games are actually really engrossing; but sometimes text files are just dreck. I'm looking at you Fallout, with your green on black 1980s slow scroll text.

 

[porous_shield]

Just another example, the Big Daddies. Great concept from design to animation.

The problem: all that is undermined by how their AI is programmed, how you can run right up to one and they'll almost completely ignore you. They are easy to kill from how you can set up all sorts of traps and everything and they won't be in the least bit aggressive till you attack them.

I mean how cool would it have been if you were terrified one was going to walk in and as soon as he sees you would destroy you on sight... and all the other Splicers would scatter when they notice one coming. But I get it, the artist didn't want people running away and not seeing their creation, but that could have been solved by saying "their vision is based on movement" when cornered you have to stay still and dare that it doesn't get close enough to see you and be threatened. Then running away is the main way you survive big daddies, running away and finding a hole to squeeze through smaller than they can follow, and not somewhere they can throw a grenade in.

I think you completely missed the point of the Big Daddy. They were made to protect the Little Sisters while they went around collecting Adam, they weren't meant to slaughter everything in sight. The trigger to enrage the Big Daddy, that Suchong gave them, was hurting a Little Sister, so if you attack them, they attack back and if you don't do anything they won't bother you. I think it's somewhat ironic in a way. I mean everything else in Rapture is trying to ruthlessly murder you and the only thing that minds its own business and doesn't bother you unless you bother it, you ruthlessly murder for its Adam.

----

Dear Diary (it's from the tvtropes page on Apocalyptic Logs)

The most plausible audio logs I've come across, that I can remember, are the Arkham Asylum ones. They're in the right places in the asylum and it makes sense to record the meetings with the patients. I thought they were absolutely insufferable though and I hated listening to them. Other than a few good lines I thought they were very hammy.

I actually thought the Fear messages were done quite well too (voice messages left on phones), some were quite long, but they made sense and I didn't see them as exposition chunks. They just seemed natural to me.

I wish they took the time to make them make sense in the context of the story like Treblaine has been saying. I know I've come across audio logs in strange places and places where someone wouldn't leave an audio log. Like they've been there for five minutes and they probably won't be coming back and they just leave an audio log behind. It just doesn't make sense why they would do that.

 

[nykirnsu]

Let me throw this in there, while I agree with the overuse/bad execution points, I really enjoyed them in the Arkham games... So whether that's rule or exception, I'm leaving up to everybody else.

The Arkham games are how they should be done. They record the conversation of multiple people and give an obvious reason why such a conversation has been recorded, rather than just having a villain explain their plan and record so the hero knows how to stop them (which makes no sense at all). All audio logs should be done like this.

 

[WoW Killer]

Fuck realism. They allow the story to be told without halting gameplay through cutscenes. I'm all for them.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

They're a hell of a lot better than text logs.

Depends, some of the lore books in the TES games are actually really engrossing; but sometimes text files are just dreck. I'm looking at you Fallout, with your green on black 1980s slow scroll text.

Which is a pity, because some of the lore on those computers is great, some really well written little mini stories. They're just so damn ugly it sucks to read them, ha

 

[piinyouri]

I'm a fan.
I can deal with it if it's juts dumped exposition, very little difference from a cutscene, but I LOVE when they are mere flavor for the game world.
The stones in Fatal Frame Crimson Butterfly.........*shivers*

 

[Legion]

Personally I like audio logs, gives me something to collect and search for as well as flesh out the world and characters. Though I admit that a main villain recording his own plan and leaving it hidden in multiple parts of the world is very silly.

This.

I quite like the idea of them and felt a lot of them worked really well in Bioshock. My only dislike is that they are used too often and as others have said, are pretty stupid when the antagonist practically gives a confession using them.

That's not to say that I encourage the use of them. I think they worked in Bioshock and Dead Space because the games are largely about isolation, and picking up the pieces of what went wrong. In games where there are more characters, I feel it is a somewhat lazy method of story telling.

Well when you consider that all he needed you for was to assassinate Andrew Ryan, then why even bother with this whole convoluted plan of stealing your fetus, sending you to the surface with fake memories and then bringing you back down? Why not just hire some assassins from the surface? What makes the protagonist guy so special and necessary for this task? I don't know if I missed something or not, but Fontain's plan makes no god damn sense anyway!

Because the bathysphere's and other things were locked to all but Andrew Ryan's DNA. They could never have gotten to him unless they had a sample or, in the case of the game, were biologically related.

It's kind of ironic that such information was given in audio logs. I think Atlas hints at it too.

 

[seditary]

This thread is just making me want to play System Shock 2 now.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

Snip snip

Doom 3 avoids alot of this, in that it's audio logs are like:

'I am john smith, safety dude for place A, bob bobson accidentally blew up his hand the other day in a pipeline explosion, so i've put some medical supplies in the nearby locker, code is 1234... oh, btw been hearing freaky voices and stuff, pretty creepy right?'

So contextually they make perfect sense and are well justified, you can listen to them while still playing, and I don't think any of them were compulsory(it was always like codes for item lockers and other extras, which are useful but could be skipped just as easily).

 

[Baron Tanks]

Let me throw this in there, while I agree with the overuse/bad execution points, I really enjoyed them in the Arkham games... So whether that's rule or exception, I'm leaving up to everybody else.

The Arkham games are how they should be done. They record the conversation of multiple people and give an obvious reason why such a conversation has been recorded, rather than just having a villain explain their plan and record so the hero knows how to stop them (which makes no sense at all). All audio logs should be done like this.

Yes that's right, it's not a, let me make a record of all of my devious plans so the protagonist can find them. They're just patient-doctor sessions that go on record. I especially liked Harley Quinns tape, where she effectively goes from doctor to patient in the course of a number of sessions.

Another game where the audio records work, at least to some extent, is Borderlands. Here the recordings are of someone who is bats@()* insane (Patricia Tannis) or audio logs of field communications. Or just wilfull mocking taunts of your nemesis (Handsome Jack). Additionally, that game is not to be taken too serious anyway, so that helps.

 

[octafish]

one of the best audio logs i have EVER heard was the snuff one from System shock 2. u know full on guy getting killed and screaming. system shock 2 was as far as i know the first game to properly do audio logs and majority of them was good. sometimes just background chatter complaining about something and ect.

Interestingly, I recently bought and have been playing System Shock 2.

The audio logs consist of instructions, personal reminders, intimate notes, messages to other crew, and evidence-gathering against other crew. I haven't seen any diary entries, self-congratulations, or completely random logs.

THAT'S how you do audio logs, methinks.

The voicework ain't half bad, either.

Meh. The only game where I actually liked audio logs was System Shock 2.

This thread is just making me want to play System Shock 2 now.

Exactly! It just goes to show how much Levine has forgotten when it comes to making games. I was dissapointed in Bioshock, not only is it a pale imitation of SS2, it isn't even a good shooter, thankfully Bioshock 2 was much better (as an FPS) so there is some hope for Infinite (even if the protagonist is reprehensible).

 

[George Francis Gaspar]

Yeah, I'm tired of audiologs too...but what are other alternatives that would add to the world in the game? If you could answer that, then they wouldn't need audiologs.

 

[Dryk]

I quite like the idea of them and felt a lot of them worked really well in Bioshock. My only dislike is that they are used too often and as others have said, are pretty stupid when the antagonist practically gives a confession using them.

It depends on the villain's motivation really. For instance in

Spoiler: Bioshock

Bioshock when you find the message of Fontaine taking on the Atlas persona for the first time, it's a secret so he can't talk about it in public much but he'd still want everyone to know how well he played them if something were to happen to him. I feel like it makes sense for him to have left some sort of message for his enemies to find once he was removed from the picture