Audio Logs are terrible.

[SonicWaffle]

Oh come on, that's as bad as the Bond villain excuse of "I'll tell you my plan as it's too late to stop it and you'll be dead soon anyway, muuuaah ha ha ha!"

Well, Bond villains are also a bit unhinged. Given the resources and weapons they tend to have, there's usually a much simpler way to get what they want without resorting to the grand, complex and easily-fucked-up schemes they love so much. Whackadoodles, the lot of them.

And the Villain Bioshcok wasn't so careless anywhere else, he didn't brake character not for a second in all the other times he spoke to you. I mean in the actual recording someone walks in on him spelling out exactly what he did.

Yeah, he may have been a good actor, but still. Wasn't his long-term plan to kill Ryan and become overlord to a crumbling undersea city filled with addled, murderous freaks for some reason? I'd call that pretty crazy, honestly. If I were stuck in Rapture I think my only plan would be to get the fuck out of Rapture.

How am I supposed to pay attention when I'm busy backing into a corner and sweeping the barrel of a shotgun at every shadow?

If only there were many of those moments in bioshock. It should have been a game where you were genuinely afraid of such things, but as it is you just plough through them and usually a single sweep of an area and only the occasional straggler with wander upon you and they aren't a problem to deal with.

Depends on the difficulty. Play the game on hard mode, and a straggler popping up behind you can still be a challenge.

Besides, it's less about fear of the actual, and more about the atmosphere for me. I was paranoid in Rapture because the atmosphere presented it as a scary, unpleasant place to be, not so much because the bog-standard splicers were a major threat.

 

[Treblaine]

-Snip-

I just appreciate it for it's atmosphere. They nailed the look, sound and feel of Rapture. Unfortunately most of the rest of the game is somewhat uninspired in my mind. I actually let a friend finish the game for me (I watched) after getting halfway through since I just got... bored. The ONLY time I have ever done that with any game.

Agree in audio aspects and almost all other aspects, it's brilliant "conceptually" but in execution.... euuuugh. I'm going to have to say with hindsight, it's a colossal letdown.

Just another example, the Big Daddies. Great concept from design to animation.

The problem: all that is undermined by how their AI is programmed, how you can run right up to one and they'll almost completely ignore you. They are easy to kill from how you can set up all sorts of traps and everything and they won't be in the least bit aggressive till you attack them.

I mean how cool would it have been if you were terrified one was going to walk in and as soon as he sees you would destroy you on sight... and all the other Splicers would scatter when they notice one coming. But I get it, the artist didn't want people running away and not seeing their creation, but that could have been solved by saying "their vision is based on movement" when cornered you have to stay still and dare that it doesn't get close enough to see you and be threatened. Then running away is the main way you survive big daddies, running away and finding a hole to squeeze through smaller than they can follow, and not somewhere they can throw a grenade in.

And the concept of Randian economics to it's logical conclusion, how splicers are ordinary people corrupted by their personal greed for genetic enhancements. Put down by how the Slicers attack you with absolute self-sacrificing loyalty to Ryan or Fontaine. I mean why was there no kind of bribing mechanic with the splicers?

 

[StriderShinryu]

I generally agree with this. While I love the concept and atmosphere that alogs give, I so often find them silly to the point of being distracting due to how unlikely they are to really exist. Things like scientific experiments and autopsies are audio recorded, sure. And some voice/video mail type things make sense too. But the "this is my evil plan" monologues and things of that sort are just stupid. They do far more to pull me out of the experience than they do to pull me in.

 

[Treblaine]

Oh come on, that's as bad as the Bond villain excuse of "I'll tell you my plan as it's too late to stop it and you'll be dead soon anyway, muuuaah ha ha ha!"

Well, Bond villains are also a bit unhinged. Given the resources and weapons they tend to have, there's usually a much simpler way to get what they want without resorting to the grand, complex and easily-fucked-up schemes they love so much. Whackadoodles, the lot of them.

Well Fontaine wasn't unhinged, he was just a colossal dick. And it seems so contrived and out of character that he does this and SO MANY characters do these "conveniently expository audio logs".

And the Villain Bioshcok wasn't so careless anywhere else, he didn't brake character not for a second in all the other times he spoke to you. I mean in the actual recording someone walks in on him spelling out exactly what he did.

Yeah, he may have been a good actor, but still. Wasn't his long-term plan to kill Ryan and become overlord to a crumbling undersea city filled with addled, murderous freaks for some reason? I'd call that pretty crazy, honestly. If I were stuck in Rapture I think my only plan would be to get the fuck out of Rapture.

Well it was clear (perhaps TOO clear from banal exposition) that he was interested in the money. He didn't give much indication he would do much more than load the nearest submarine full of as much mobile wealth (gold, silver, plasmids he could sell) onto a submarine as soon as Rapture was enough for him. He doesn't seem like the type to leave a place like Rapture empty handed.

Depends on the difficulty. Play the game on hard mode, and a straggler popping up behind you can still be a challenge.

Besides, it's less about fear of the actual, and more about the atmosphere for me. I was paranoid in Rapture because the atmosphere presented it as a scary, unpleasant place to be, not so much because the bog-standard splicers were a major threat.

Hmm, well I never got the impression that the difficulty changed the way the Splicers acted and that was my problem. They'd very rarely stumble upon you and you'd almost always hear them coming from a door opening, them making some noises and of course when they saw you they'd immediately make some exclamation before shooting.

This would be good for a stealth game where you had to hide, but that's not really needed. It's not like they regularly raise alarms or attack in groups, one at a time they'd see you and attack instantly.

It's weird that Bioshock had such great animation but such simplistic AI.

 

[Treblaine]

The Ulysses audio logs from Fallout: New Vegas are pretty good examples of audio logs that make sense, since its implied that he is deliberately leaving them for you to find, allowing him to send you a message.

Well that makes sense, it's more of a one sided dialogue. I guess it has things like "well you made it this far" or something like that? There you are, quite by design, having some feedback. It's not just them spouting off into nothing that you just so happen to hear for your convenience.

 

[Treblaine]

I think audio logs can work (as mentioned above, they did kinda make sense in Arkham games, for instance) but yeah, usually they suck. To look at a recent example, the logs in Tomb Raider are extremely silly. You have diaries lying all over the island, sometimes in places the authors never had access to, and sometimes addressed to people who have no way of receiving the messages. And why would you scatter small pieces of your diary where ever you go? Who even writes diaries these days?


If you have to include logs you should at least do it in a logical way. In Human Revolution, for instance (or original Deus Ex, for that matter), you can find out all kinds of information from reading other people's mail. And the way it's presented makes sense - it's people writing to each other about their stuff. And in addition to that you have data discs/newspapers lying around living/working quarters that provide background information about the world and technology. That's how it should be done. I should not be finding tapes from the villain all over some sewers explaining his life story bit by bit.

"If you have to include logs you should at least do it in a logical way."


Aww, I couldn't resist

you can find out all kinds of information from reading other people's mail.

Yeah, that's at least half of dialogue. People telling people what they know, what they want, and what they don't know and so on. Not jsut a contrived stream of consciousness.

Sometimes I think audio-logs should be replaced with a telepathic "mind read" ability. Like finding someone's remains or some other "psychic trace" you can read their "thoughts" in a given context. Because half the time these audio logs are written like the script you'd give for when it goes to "read my mind" mode, or the narrator for a film where the protagonist is the bad guy.

 

[TheSapphireKnight]

Its funny you mention Halo because those games tend to have some of the best audio logs/story expanding goodies. ODST in particular had a bunch of audio logs that had a self-contained story that added additional context to the main story in a very natural way.

It made sense why there would be audio logs around and why you might try and find them, it even changes how the story and gameplay play out a bit.

I don't tend to care for the audio logs like you mention where they have characters just leaving important information strewn about. Dishonored had this problem where you would be listening to these personal audio logs of these characters while they were in the same room and there were few that were a little awkward to listen to...

Of course ODST! I shall have to Edit the OP.

But I liked ODST for many of the reasons that I hear hardcore Halo fans hated it, it's very storytelling structure. I guess it goes to show how it's not inherent to the developers, it's in their approach.

Those audio logs showed exactly how to do it, problem with that was the audio-logs were just a bit TOO well hidden! If only I hadn't lost my copy, I shall have to play through the game again to find all the audio-logs. But one expectation I had was that they tied in with the actual story a bit more rather than simply being a parallel and (as far as I can tell from not getting all the logs) and unconnected story.

Though it certainly gave the impression that New Mombassa was a living city. It wasn't helped by how the actual game was as far as I can tell COMPLETELY de-populated, I only saw Soldiers and Covenant.

I'm starting to think audio logs are put in because they are easy... but at the same time I don't think developers really think about WHY they are putting them in.

I'd put them in for how they reveal snippets of the story and environment, to make it seem more alive after you may arrive there only when all hell has broken loose and everyone is either dead or evacuated and only combatants are left.

I don't want to get into spoilers, but the stories do connect, a lot of it functions similarly to the flashback missions themselves. Objects and situations that seem random or unimportant are explained by the parallel story.

If you do get around to playing it again there are a bunch of helpful maps online.

Audio logs can have a place when they are given proper treatment. I enjoy ODST's audio logs because they have their own story to tell while still being relevant to the main plot. I would agree that audio logs are often lazily implemented, but at the same time i would rather have story or gameplay related collectables then meaningless doo-dads scattered throughout the game.

The problem is that they are also often used to pad out shorter games with little to no reward.

 

[CityofTreez]

Is this real? Are we really complaining about an optional game mechanic here? Come on guys.

Finally! Someone else feels the same way about this!

Before I first tried Bioshock I kept hearing how the audio logs really help support it's dark and unique atmosphere. When I actually played the game... I hated them. It's not just audio logs either. I just apparently hate when most of the story in a game is told through monologue.
Even that woman scientist/doctor you see only as a silhouette from the other end of the glass in a smokey room.

Thankfully Bioshock Infinite is going to have actual faces in the game.

Uh, because maybe most everyone in the audio logs were already dead?

 

[Treblaine]

snip

Use audio logs when it makes sense to use them. A researcher documenting his findings, a spelunker diving into a cave and getting stranded, a spy secretly recording incriminating dialogue. Those are all cool in my book.

Of course, but you can't meet many who are recording their findings and most of their recordings are going to be exactly that, recordings of what they've found. Most of it would be very boring to listen through and unless you know much about it nothing that's very useful. Though there could conceivably be a little gem in there like revealing a special item they found, or secret entrance that could be a clue.

And I think this could be far more effectively done with flashbacks.

You mean animating entire cutscenes showing every detail of that guy's life while interrupting the gameplay?
Flashbacks have their place but they'll be just as bad as audio logs if you start using them exclusively, and they're way more costly to do. The convenient part about audio logs is you just need a model, an icon, a short animation and the voice-acting for each part. Then you can use the same model and the same animation with different voices in the background.

Which is part of the problem, if the cost cutting extends to the voice acting you may end up with passable but extremely dull performance. It's better to have quality over quantity when you are trying to get people's undivided attention.

Video games seem to have passed the stage of "hilariously bad" voice acting and now we are arguably in a worst position of "passably dull" voice acting. A good voice actor like Paul Eiding, he could read from the phone book and keep your attention.

And on flashbacks, I'm saying if back story is to be done, it should be done properly or not at all. The obligation to have a back story but to cut so many corners it's little more than a synopsis, then you are better off leaving a bit of mystery, or working around it another way. Backstory itself is not a reward, the story itself is not a reward, what is a reward is HOW it is told. It's not entertaining to read the plot synopsis of a movie on wikipedia, what is entertaining is having it revealed in the storyTELLING.

Gameplay-wise, audio logs have a few advantages:
- they don't interrupt gameplay
- they're optional
- they serve to break-up the fatigue that sets in from slogging through the levels
All while adding necessary exposition or backstory or whatever's in them.

It all comes down to how and when you use them.

Well maybe it's just me but I find audio-logs do interrupt gameplay, I can't continue doing much while listening to one. And you kind of contradict yourself, you say they don't interrupt gameplay, then that they break-up the fatigue? I find it tiresome to have to listen to a steam-of-consciousness style audio log in between such action/adventuring, if they were more engaging that would be different.

Audio logs aren't always optional, especially if one of many contains a clue or code to access an area or continue. Then if you've been skipping them you're going to have to start listening through all of them till you find a code that works. It only takes one, and unlike any text-based recording where you can scan through for a 4-digit number, you have to listen though an audio tape all the time and LISTEN CAREFULLY, as if you are distracted you'll either miss part of it and you cannot rewind... or miss it entirely and be left clueless.

One solution I'd have is collect the tapes as items, and play them using walkman you have found. You have to combine the tape with the walkman using inventory crafting table, equip the walkman, fast forward, re-wind, play, etc. You could have a lot of fun with that, give tapes as proof for dialogue, hell you could find music tapes. I wonder how many people would enjoy just the concept of using a tape-player.

Reasons that people would record themselves, would be like making a mix tape. I'd like that, adds an element of humanity if you search one of the goons you've gunned down and find a recording of themselves doing a rendition of a popular song... makes them less of robots. But having a recording where they just so happen to keep an audio diary, that just comes across as contrived.

 

[Treblaine]

Is this real? Are we really complaining about an optional game mechanic here? Come on guys.

Yes, we are complaining about how it's done wrong when it could be done RIGHT.

It's still terrible and the problem is with games that are so clearly dependant on audio-logs to give any sense of character to the world.

You know what else is optional, the ENTIRE GAME. The problem is the same, we like what they are trying to do but they've done it wrong. I'm not saying audio-recordings-you-find-in-games are all inherently an unavoidably terrible, simply that as of now, they ARE. It's terrible how what could be such a compelling element is nothing but lazy and tedious monologuing.

(And how optional are they? It only takes a single pass-code restricted entrance or safe and you have to listen through all of the audio recordings you've found till you find one mention the code... then it isn't really optional. But that doesn't always happen, it's true you can skip them.)

 

[Lazy Kitty]

Well, I for one find the audio logs entertaining and welcome them into my games.
I tend to hunt them all down to listen to them.
They're kind of like Pokemon. Except they've got no chance to escape.

 

[BenzSmoke]

Personally I like audio logs, gives me something to collect and search for as well as flesh out the world and characters. Though I admit that a main villain recording his own plan and leaving it hidden in multiple parts of the world is very silly.

 

[vasiD]

I would like to note that Audio logs can be a great storytelling tool, but not when they're forced into the levels. When I play something like say the most recent Aliens VS Predator marine campaign I can't help but feel like they went to the writer and said 'okay, here's the level, we need X amount of audio diaries, and try to make them fit with what we've designed in there.'

I'd say the same thing for Bioshock, the recent Batman games, and really most games that have used it, however there are a hand full of games that actually use it as a plot device properly. The best example here is Fallout New Vegas; if we heard an audio log in that game it fit in with an active story and wasn't just thrown in there to break up the monotony of shooting endless demons from hell/aliens/terrorists/Occupy protestors(Call of Duty: Black Ops 7).

 

[Eric Milligan]

Uh, I just want to say that Halo games have incredibly amounts of depth, and not just ODST either, the Halo fictional universe is freakin huge.

 

[Treblaine]

For one, Atlas did break character multiple times in game. From uttering common American phrases (someone who supposedly was born and lived in Ireland) to getting his story wrong, twice, about how his family was from which is the main point of the story for the first 2/3 of the game. It was subtle, but it was there.

Secondly, what's wrong with that diary? He's alone in his office and McClintock comes in and catches him out of character. Oh, you know what happens next? He kills her.

The audio logs added a lot of depth to the story of Rapture, to its citizen's. You wouldn't have known about how McDonough met Ryan, how Tennbaum had discovered and produced ADAM or the craziness of Steinman. Audio logs aren't perfect and everything games shouldn't have them, but using Bioshock as an example of why they shouldn't be used (I think that's what you're doing) is insane.

Hmm, you don't have to be from America to use American phrases. He was after all in a place mostly populated by Americans.

It's extremely damn subtle to have any variation on his family story, it's almost entirely natural if you've lived in different places like were they referring to where they were originally from, or where they have most recently arrived from.

Yeah, why the hell was he breaking character just to record evidence or his nefarious plan? When anyone could have walked in and caught him? Or simply, listened to the recording and found Fontaine talking about assuming the Atlas identity. He shouldn't have to kill anyone, if he even did (that's not so obvious).

What would make far more sense is finding a secret recording that Mrs McClintock made of her confronting Atlas with evidence that he isn't who he claims to be, but Altas stays in character reassuring her and seems to have her almost convinced till suddenly kills her breaking character only in the moment of violence, revealing he is Fontaine and she's a fool to think she could blackmail him.

THAT is original exposition.

The audio logs technically do add depth, but in such the wrong way. I still want to find audio recordings, but nothing so banal and contrived as them monologuing in such forced exposition.

McDonough's story of meeting Ryan could have been revealed in any other way than him simply... telling us... how he met Ryan. For example, you could find a series of tapes of McDonough being questioned by Ryan's secret police, they make him explain how he knows Ryan and it's slowly revealed over successive tapes that the man McDonough worked for and admired... has now turned on him considering him a traitor.

Steinman would be crazy enough to rant at nothing, but are Audio-logs quite crazy enough? It's not like he's quietly crazy. If he's going to rant, have the rants be over a PA system, he's hardly keeping it too himself where his rants will only be found by people really poking around in his affairs.

I can see talking to himself, but not talking to himself and having the sense of him to record it. A psychiatrist studying Steinman might record what he says talking to himself and that might be as good a place as any for him to add in notes.

using Bioshock as an example of why they shouldn't be used (I think that's what you're doing) is insane.

There should be no sacred cows in this industry.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

Am I correct in assuming that your problem with audio logs is not audio-logs-as-messages or audio-logs-as-dialogue-recordings, but audio-logs-as-diaries (audio diaries, in other words)?

If so, what difference would a text diary make for you?

If not, then my question is at best tangential to this topic.

 

[Metaphysic]

I'd much rather listen to a character rattle something off and continue on my way, than stop what I'm doing and read two or three paragraphs that may or may not have to do with anything.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

I hate written logs...particularly in films/games where the words are written in BIG AND BOLD, underlined letters, like "WHY?". I remember this in the Bourne films, in the first Hulk movie and others.

What it comes down to is that it breaks a rather important "rule"; that is one of the first rules of good writing, "Show, don't tell.". Don't tell the reader/viewer/player/listener the character is angry, demonstrate their anger. I'm not saying there isn't some place for it in the grand scheme of things, particularly if the passage of time is important to the story. But it shouldn't be the only way backstory is presented, it's not a good way. It's also a strong test of our ability to disbelieve...how was it that people of the past recorded their thoughts, then lost said recordings one at a time, in just precisely the order that the player unfolds the greater story?