Autistic UK Hacker faces being shipped out to the US.
- Thread starter Lord George
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As far as i know, Aspergers is simply a disease that causes social ineptitude, and as such should have no effect on his sentencing. Personally, I would have to say i support the U.S. in trying to do this to protect classified materials. He may have not had malicious intent, but the information he garnered could have easily fallen into the wrong hands.
Bingo, the US doesn't have the right to grab whoever they want to trial them in the USA rather than the country that they live in and thus their laws they are required to know.Amnestic said:
Agreed with both of you, the poor bloke has a mental illness, seriously they should leave him alone, worse case disconnect his internet, its no different than a 10 year old doing it, the brain is incapable of understanding what the conserquences are. The real question is how he was able to do it, the US has been humiliated and they want payback.Halfbreed13 said:I am glad at least one person sees it this way. Everyone is acting like mental dissabilities don't do anything. Everyone google sysmptoms of Asperger's syndrome, hten you will see how stupid the stuff you are saying is. He didn't even do damage and you give him 60 years in prison. Get him some mental help and call it a day. Jesus.Gaycakes said:
Have a cookie by the way.
RicoADF said:Bingo, the US doesn't have the right to grab whoever they want to trial them in the USA rather than the country that they live in and thus their laws they are required to know.Amnestic said:
Agreed with both of you, the poor bloke has a mental illness, seriously they should leave him alone, worse case disconnect his internet, its no different than a 10 year old doing it, the brain is incapable of understanding what the conserquences are. The real question is how he was able to do it, the US has been humiliated and they want payback.Halfbreed13 said:I am glad at least one person sees it this way. Everyone is acting like mental dissabilities don't do anything. Everyone google sysmptoms of Asperger's syndrome, hten you will see how stupid the stuff you are saying is. He didn't even do damage and you give him 60 years in prison. Get him some mental help and call it a day. Jesus.Gaycakes said:
Have a cookie by the way.
It not a fucking illness!! I find that deeply offensive AND patronising
I grew up with a cousin that had Aspergers, and I met several other people that had it too. It doesn't make you a raving lunatic that hacks into the US goverment. It hinders your social skills and makes it hard to make friends. That guy did a stupid thing, I don't care if he was just trying to look at ponies. He deserves whatever punishment he gets.
And for those who say he shouldn't be punished by the US, what if an American on vacation blew a whole in the wall of the queens bedroom and broke in, but it was just to find out her favorite color. I bet you would want the UK to punish him.
And for those who say he shouldn't be punished by the US, what if an American on vacation blew a whole in the wall of the queens bedroom and broke in, but it was just to find out her favorite color. I bet you would want the UK to punish him.
I aint saying that its made him a hacker etc, but the social skill hinderence could attribute to it. In the end its upto a doctor/whoever is qualified to determine that.ElTigreSantiago said:
Well I'm in Australia, so I'm not saying it because I'm brit, and yes he would need to be punished by the UK because he would be in the UK at the time, the critial part here IMO is the location of the individual. If you go to another country then you should learn their laws first, while on the net tho your under the laws of the country that you reside in.ElTigreSantiago said:
So hang on a mintue
Despite the fact that the extradition treaty between the United States and the UK states that extradition can and will happen in the event of a federal offense being committed, and the fact that this man broke into US government computers (thus committing a federal offense), he shouldn't be extradited? Fine then I guess i'll go break into the servers on 10 Downing Street cause I want to know about Q Branch and the progress they're making on laser watches. Nothing bad will happen cause I'm in America, right? (protip: wrong)
There is no argument here. The man broke into US Navy and NASA comptuers. And his reasons for doing so cannot be conclusively linked to Asperger's because there are many conspiracy theorists without Asperger's who have most likely done the same thing. It's a federal offense committed on US soil, and thus he should and will be extradited. And furthermore he already confessed to the fact that he did it. And since ignorance of the law is no excuse, to the US he shall go. I'm sure they won't be able to make the monetary charge stick especially if he didn't take anything, and since he's already confessed he probably won't get 60 years. if anything he'll most likely end up like the "Catch me if you can" guy that was mentioned earlier.
Personally as an American i'm not saying this should be done because he embarassed us by doing it. I am saying it should be done because it's the law and the agreement between our countries. And nobody is above the law.
NOBODY
(and before you ask I consider the entire Bush Administration to be traitors to the United States who should be tried for treason and negligence, and i'm very pissed that nobody has done so yet)
Despite the fact that the extradition treaty between the United States and the UK states that extradition can and will happen in the event of a federal offense being committed, and the fact that this man broke into US government computers (thus committing a federal offense), he shouldn't be extradited? Fine then I guess i'll go break into the servers on 10 Downing Street cause I want to know about Q Branch and the progress they're making on laser watches. Nothing bad will happen cause I'm in America, right? (protip: wrong)
There is no argument here. The man broke into US Navy and NASA comptuers. And his reasons for doing so cannot be conclusively linked to Asperger's because there are many conspiracy theorists without Asperger's who have most likely done the same thing. It's a federal offense committed on US soil, and thus he should and will be extradited. And furthermore he already confessed to the fact that he did it. And since ignorance of the law is no excuse, to the US he shall go. I'm sure they won't be able to make the monetary charge stick especially if he didn't take anything, and since he's already confessed he probably won't get 60 years. if anything he'll most likely end up like the "Catch me if you can" guy that was mentioned earlier.
Personally as an American i'm not saying this should be done because he embarassed us by doing it. I am saying it should be done because it's the law and the agreement between our countries. And nobody is above the law.
NOBODY
(and before you ask I consider the entire Bush Administration to be traitors to the United States who should be tried for treason and negligence, and i'm very pissed that nobody has done so yet)
I have Asperger's Syndrome and it is no defence at all. It doesn't make you stupid, insane, immoral or have in any way diminished responsibility for your actions and I DETEST his lawyer for trying to exploit this disorder to defend his criminal actions.
I mean his defence has tried to create the public impression that Asperger's Syndrome sufferers as borderline schizophrenics, who have no concept of right and wrong, as if we are all man-childs who should never have been allowed computers in the first place!
I am glad he was not excused, because if he was excused for his Aspergers, then that damns every other sufferer of Aspergers and autism related disorders, we just wouldn't be trusted which is completely unfair and I am glad to see the judge who oversaw the extradition realised that was unfair.
For those who are interested, Aspergers is a learning difficulty and social interaction disorder, basically I find it very hard to pick up on subconscious social queues that everyone else takes for granted. That is why I love the internet, it's all text, the rules of grammar are easy to learn. In fact Aspergers are more at home on the internet than in real life.
As to his particular case, 60 years is the maximum sentence and no way are they going to give the maximum sentence to some UFO nut. Case in point: Kevin Mitnick. The most notorious hacker in America only served 5 years and he was profiteering off his hacking and was incredibly extensive.
Even if this Gary McKinnon was convicted there is even the chance he will be sent back to a UK jail to serve out his sentence but from what I hear federal jails are pretty cushy, full of white collar criminals who have the political connections to get good facilities.
Also, bullshit that "if he physically committed the crime in UK he should be put on trial in the UK". US defence computers are completely out of UK jurisdiction, which is where the crime took place. The LAW says you stand trial in the jurisdiction (country) where the crime was committed, not merely where the suspect happened to be at the time of the crime. If someone plants a bomb and leaves the country, but the bomb only goes off and kills someone only once he is in his home country, that doesn't make him dodge justice. The crime was actually committed when he wasn't in the country but obviously he should be tried in the location the crime was committed!
Gary McKinnon committed his crime remotely, for arguably stupid reasons and the sentence will likely be light for that but it is clear that justice is best served by him going before a US court.
I mean if some Chinese guy hacked into my country's Ministry of Defence computers, I would expect him to stand trial here if the Chinese government was so reasonable.
I mean his defence has tried to create the public impression that Asperger's Syndrome sufferers as borderline schizophrenics, who have no concept of right and wrong, as if we are all man-childs who should never have been allowed computers in the first place!
I am glad he was not excused, because if he was excused for his Aspergers, then that damns every other sufferer of Aspergers and autism related disorders, we just wouldn't be trusted which is completely unfair and I am glad to see the judge who oversaw the extradition realised that was unfair.
For those who are interested, Aspergers is a learning difficulty and social interaction disorder, basically I find it very hard to pick up on subconscious social queues that everyone else takes for granted. That is why I love the internet, it's all text, the rules of grammar are easy to learn. In fact Aspergers are more at home on the internet than in real life.
As to his particular case, 60 years is the maximum sentence and no way are they going to give the maximum sentence to some UFO nut. Case in point: Kevin Mitnick. The most notorious hacker in America only served 5 years and he was profiteering off his hacking and was incredibly extensive.
Even if this Gary McKinnon was convicted there is even the chance he will be sent back to a UK jail to serve out his sentence but from what I hear federal jails are pretty cushy, full of white collar criminals who have the political connections to get good facilities.
Also, bullshit that "if he physically committed the crime in UK he should be put on trial in the UK". US defence computers are completely out of UK jurisdiction, which is where the crime took place. The LAW says you stand trial in the jurisdiction (country) where the crime was committed, not merely where the suspect happened to be at the time of the crime. If someone plants a bomb and leaves the country, but the bomb only goes off and kills someone only once he is in his home country, that doesn't make him dodge justice. The crime was actually committed when he wasn't in the country but obviously he should be tried in the location the crime was committed!
Gary McKinnon committed his crime remotely, for arguably stupid reasons and the sentence will likely be light for that but it is clear that justice is best served by him going before a US court.
I mean if some Chinese guy hacked into my country's Ministry of Defence computers, I would expect him to stand trial here if the Chinese government was so reasonable.
actually they do and the laws are pretty clear on it as well. as for knowing the laws of the country, it's not hard to figure out that breaking into the pentagon and other top secret networks is illegalRicoADF said:
so you're arguments don't really hold much water
I disagree. I've seen too many frauders and scammers get away with crimes because they committed their crime in another country.Amnestic said:
So because their judgment is impaired we shouldn't try him under the law? Then we wouldn't be able to try people that are on any kind of drug, prescription or otherwise, that causes impaired judgment either.RicoADF said:
We wouldn't be able to try a sociopath because they don't feel what they were doing was wrong (impaired judgment.)
Impaired judgment is not a defense, and if it was a 10 year old we would still try and convict them. They would (just as this guy most likely would) get probation for several years and a ban on owning or operating computers and touch tone telephones.
Trust me, it takes more than Asperger's to think hacking into the US Government is okay.RicoADF said: