Avengers Movie: Grrrr....stupid iron man
- Thread starter Reiper
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Alright, fair enough, we can discuss movies before they are released. That said, why on earth can we not talk them after they are released? This particular question isn't one that could be discussed before release,and other than the hard facts released by a studio (director, producer, casting etc.), most other discussion regarding a movie before its release tends to be baseless speculation. We can't rant about desired changes to a movie until the movie in question comes out, is what I'm trying to say. So your statement that the time to discuss these things is before the movie is released is just silly.Luminous Chroma said:
Pre-Avengers movie Box office numbers:Reiper said:
Iron Man : $585m
Thor : $449m
Captain America: $368m
Hulk: $263m
Thats why. Hes the most popular. Less popular characters get less screentime. Popular characters make money.
Edit: Ninjaed..
Oh most definitely she can act - but it's not a requirement for Black Widow. She (that is the Character of the Black Widow) is not going to be carrying any Marvel movie; as long as she looks good and the editing for any and all stunts are top notch (see: Iron Man 2 and Avengers battle scenes) the fans of the Marvel movies aren't going to care about her acting.BloatedGuppy said:
It's a shame because as you say, Scarlet is a good actress. I would be interested in seeing a Black Widow-Hawkeye movie. (though maybe not with Renner as Hawkeye; so far I've not liked his Hawkeye. But I'll admit that I like the Hawkeye from the Avengers cartoon from the past few years. The cocky, mouthy, arrogant little twit who is almost skilled enough to back his trash talk up. I don't see Renner being able to play that kind of character.) However I'm not the target demographic for Marvel movies; I'm the guy who enjoyed Ang Lee's Hulk movie, who was won over by the Captain America movie and was extremely disappointed in the Avengers movie. I actually want there to be something beyond explosions, insane action and bewbs, so there isn't going to be a major Marvel movie for my demographic.
delta4062 said:
With due respect, it's pretty silly to say that someone can master all of the things that her character is known to have mastered but draw the line at her having gone to see a voice coach. Although I do think that it would have been a nice touch if she had slipped into the Russian accent while she was alone with Hawkeye. It would have been a nice, clear demonstration of how she is more comfortable around him than any of the other characters in the movie.Tono Makt said:
Let's dispense with the name-calling, shall we? I'm silly, you're silly, thing on the Internet is silly. There, I've covered all the bases. On we go.Nemusus said:
We can certainly talk about movies after they're released. This particular movie has come and gone from theaters, was widely (and generally well) reviewed, and made something like a billion dollars worldwide. But as I said in my first response, I was mostly curious about the OP's point. Was he just voicing a complaint in the hopes of finding commiseration? Seeking someone to recut the movie into a 70% Less Iron Man version? I'm less interested in reading year-late criticism than I am about the driving force behind the opening message.
The thing is that we've already seen most of the things the character is known to have mastered:Paradoxrifts said:
1) Kung Fu? CHECK (Great stunt doubles and editing)
2) Look sexy? CHECK (Duh)
3) Act seductive? CHECK (Duh)
4) Speak without a Russian Accent when required? CHECK
5) Incredibly athletic? CHECK (See #1)
Does she NEED to have a Russian accent when she talks? It would be nice to have her slip into it at times. It would give her character a heck of a lot more metaphorical weight. But for the target demographic we've already got everything needed for Widow.
Bewbs in Leather Outfit.
So with all due respect, what you and I might want from Black Widow, what you and I might find silly about where the line is drawn (Russian accent), but we're not the target audience. And the target audience is quite happy with Bewbs in a Leather Outfit being the Female Avenger.
I just think that it's a rather petty complaint to be making.Tono Makt said:
It's kind of like when I went to see Thor 2 with my mate. Afterwards I jokingly complained to him that the film could've seen fit to include at least some female cleavage in it. Especially as it features a pointless other than fan-service PG-13 washroom scene where Chris Hemsworth has stripped himself down to the waist. If the studio thinks that it'll help sell tickets then they'll green light a slightly larger budget then they otherwise would, and I might get to see more of the stuff I bought a ticket to see. I am by no means immune to making petty complaints from time to time.
A far better complaint would be that the erasure of any traces of the Black Widow's cultural identity is part of a wider Hollywood tendency toward depicting all fictional characters of particular real world nationalities as hostile, or even downright evil, just because the US government and the real world government of the fictional character are on unfriendly terms at the time of the film's production.
By now it's been covered, but basically it boils down to three points:
-Iron Man brings in the most money
-Iron Man is the most popular Avenger
-Joss Whedon is better at/likes writing for that kind of character
And I agree that there's too much Iron Man. Yes, it's all very good and RDJ is great, but I can never find myself rooting for a snarky billionaire as much as I can rooting for some kid from Brooklyn (speaking as a brit here too, I suppose it's an underdog thing).
I'd love for Cap to lead the team properly- for one, he's experienced in leading small, specialised teams, and he's also the only one I'd trust to make the right decision every time, without hubris. Yeah, he did order them about a bit during the battle (and get a cool hero bit, albeit on a smaller scale than Iron Man's, but I thought it was more interesting), but Stark still seemed to carry more weight. Cap's just the right guy, in terms of character if not power, to lead the team.
I think the Marvel films' interconnections are something of a double-edged sword- whilst it's all very exciting and interesting, the movies setting eachother up can leave some things a bit lacking. The Avengers setting up Iron Man's character arc in IM3 was great, but I suspect (bearing in mind I haven't seen Cap 2) that Cap didn't get the character development he deserved because it was being left for Cap 2. Not that he didn't get any (and I thought what there was was great), I just don't feel like he got enough.
You know, I reckon that we need the Cap- Even fucking Superman is a brooding douche these days, we need a guy that's just a good guy.
This has been something of a 'more Captain America' rant, but I suppose that's what it is. The Avengers to me, felt more like 'Iron Man and Friends' rather than a dynamic team, let alone a team led by Cap. I do like Iron Man, but he's already one film up on the rest of the big guns in the team and there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Sure, I understand the reasons, I just disagree with other people's tastes I suppose.
-Iron Man brings in the most money
-Iron Man is the most popular Avenger
-Joss Whedon is better at/likes writing for that kind of character
And I agree that there's too much Iron Man. Yes, it's all very good and RDJ is great, but I can never find myself rooting for a snarky billionaire as much as I can rooting for some kid from Brooklyn (speaking as a brit here too, I suppose it's an underdog thing).
I'd love for Cap to lead the team properly- for one, he's experienced in leading small, specialised teams, and he's also the only one I'd trust to make the right decision every time, without hubris. Yeah, he did order them about a bit during the battle (and get a cool hero bit, albeit on a smaller scale than Iron Man's, but I thought it was more interesting), but Stark still seemed to carry more weight. Cap's just the right guy, in terms of character if not power, to lead the team.
I think the Marvel films' interconnections are something of a double-edged sword- whilst it's all very exciting and interesting, the movies setting eachother up can leave some things a bit lacking. The Avengers setting up Iron Man's character arc in IM3 was great, but I suspect (bearing in mind I haven't seen Cap 2) that Cap didn't get the character development he deserved because it was being left for Cap 2. Not that he didn't get any (and I thought what there was was great), I just don't feel like he got enough.
You know, I reckon that we need the Cap- Even fucking Superman is a brooding douche these days, we need a guy that's just a good guy.
This has been something of a 'more Captain America' rant, but I suppose that's what it is. The Avengers to me, felt more like 'Iron Man and Friends' rather than a dynamic team, let alone a team led by Cap. I do like Iron Man, but he's already one film up on the rest of the big guns in the team and there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Sure, I understand the reasons, I just disagree with other people's tastes I suppose.
I remember one of the deleted scenes that didn't make the final cut was a scene with Stan Lee and Captain America. It was concerning him coming to terms with how much the world has changed and the fact that he'll have to accept it. I thought it was a really touching scene, but I admit it would've been a bit out of place in the Avengers movie considering the other ways the cap'n was used in that movie. I hope that the next Captain America movie helps dig him out of his current hole, because I really liked his first movie.