Azeroth Choppers Reveals Winning World of Warcraft Motorcycle

[Psychotic]

Faction pride is a battle where we all lose.

 

[Waaghpowa]

I would argue that the Horde was created because of the Alliances bigotry and racism. In fact, Lorthemar Theron says that in one of the quests for Domination Offensive after Jaina started attacking and killing innocent civilians who identified as sunreavers in Dalaran because she has a grudge against the Horde.

Now granted, not everyone in the Horde is all good. Garrosh is clearly a hateful racist who was responsible for the attack on Theremore, which is the reason Jaina is pissed (and the Siege of Orgrimmar, but that's a different story). But the reason the Horde formed after Warcraft 3 was to be a place for those who had nowhere else to go. And part of that was from general hostility from the Alliance. With that, I agree that the Alliance come off as being self righteous assholes, and they are.

I could get into the whole lore side of things about how Orcs were never really bad, just manipulated into doing bad things by demons, but that would be going off on a tangent.

"How dare the Alliance throw us in prison for spending years in a total genocidal war where we raped, pillaged, and murdered our way across the countryside, THE MONSTERS!"

The Horde is more of a refuge for bigotry and racism than the Alliance, at least lore wise. It promotes slavery, it wages wars of genocide, and even that Dalaran "purge" involved those who didn't fight back being arrested, not killed.

The horde isn't a refuge for "those who don't belong" it's more or less a security blanket for a bunch of murderers and thieves who realized one day that if they don't band together under some bright red sheets, they may actually have to face justice for all the things they've done.

The Alliance is by no means "self-righteous" because they actually have a point. They're defending their own lives from Horde aggression, they only exist because there's an entire faction of monsters just waiting for the moment they can strike and wipe everyone out.

You're essentially claiming people trying to protect themselves from genocide are "self-righteous assholes".

And you're justifying discrimination based on someone's past. The Horde of the past was murderous and blood thirsty, but not entirely of their own doing. Demons have had control of them for the majority of Warcraft 1 and 2, and part of 3 when Grom Hellscream regressed but later redeemed himself and his people by slaying the very demon who had manipulated his people.

Thrall has been trying his best to get both sides to work together and to change things, but neither side is willing to give it a chance, including the alliance, based on old prejudices.

I called them self righteous because they're responsible for terrible things, but do it because "they're protecting themselves" as if it makes it better. The very definition of self righteous is characterizing ones self as morally superior. The alliance has had slaves too, the very name "Thrall" means slave and he was raised as a gladiator. Not to mention the internment camps for orcs, driving the blood elves to siding with Lady Vashj for protection because of bigoted Alliance leadership denying them protection etc

I'm not saying the horde is perfect. I'm saying both sides have been responsible for some bad things. The problem is that neither side is willing to make a compromise and face the fact that they're stuck in this together, whether they like it or not and have to work together if the expect to survive what's coming.

The Horde, at this time in the lore, is a place for those who have no other place go go. With Vol'jin as the new leader and Varian finally smartening up and doing something reasonable rather than with his feelings gives great possibility for progress and change.

I'm not here to have a lore-off with you, I'm simply stating that neither side is innocent. I'm not in the mood to argue.

 

[Waaghpowa]

And you're justifying discrimination based on someone's past. The Horde of the past was murderous and blood thirsty, but not entirely of their own doing. Demons have had control of them for the majority of Warcraft 1 and 2, and part of 3 when Grom Hellscream regressed but later redeemed himself and his people by slaying the very demon who had manipulated his people.

Thrall has been trying his best to get both sides to work together and to change things, but neither side is willing to give it a chance, including the alliance, based on old prejudices.

I called them self righteous because they're responsible for terrible things, but do it because "they're protecting themselves" as if it makes it better. The very definition of self righteous is characterizing ones self as morally superior. The alliance has had slaves too, the very name "Thrall" means slave and he was raised as a gladiator. Not to mention the internment camps for orcs, driving the blood elves to siding with Lady Vashj for protection because of bigoted Alliance leadership denying them protection etc

I'm not saying the horde is perfect. I'm saying both sides have been responsible for some bad things. The problem is that neither side is willing to make a compromise and face the fact that they're stuck in this together, whether they like it or not and have to work together if the expect to survive what's coming.

The Horde, at this time in the lore, is a place for those who have no other place go go. With Vol'jin as the new leader and Varian finally smartening up and doing something reasonable rather than with his feelings gives great possibility for progress and change.

I'm not here to have a lore-off with you, I'm simply stating that neither side is innocent. I'm not in the mood to argue.

Welp, if you didn't want to argue than you could've done a lot better than calling the Alliance "Self-Righteous Assholes" then use shaky lore reasons to try and "prove" your point, friend.

But to address all of your points: Thrall is, by far, the only Orc "slave" known to have existed and he was kept under wraps. The Alliance, even back then, did not tolerate slavery and it was only a small cabal of people actually promoting it.

Slavery is actually legal in the Horde. You meet Horde slaves in the early questing zones, the Forsaken run what are essentially death camps using slave labor, they even promote lobotomizing people and forcing them to obey.

Secondly, I do -love- the internment camp argument, just goes to show how ridiculous the Horde's points are. Here's the thing: The Orcs were an invasive species. They were genocidal monsters trying to wipe out all non-orc beings on Azeroth. They had no place on the world at all. The Internment Camps were the greatest act of mercy of all time. Rather than exterminating them, the Alliance (made a huge mistake and) let them live. If some aliens suddenly invaded the planet and committed mass genocide on your people before being soundly defeated, are you honestly saying that the bad guys are the ones who show mercy and imprison the aliens for their crimes?

It's utterly ridiculous that prisoners being thrown in jail for literally invading a planet and mass-exterminating countless people are being portrayed as "poor victims" of oppression.

Thirdly, the Alliance has done nothing wrong and unjustifiable in it's entire history. Kael'thas and his people abandoned the Alliance to be utterly murdered at the hands of the Scourge, when they come back crawling on their knees after -they- were attacked, their first response was to keep whining that they "weren't being allowed to fight" when Garithos finally -did- give them orders to fight on the front lines, Kael'thas complained about it being "impossible" and frequently went against the orders of his superiors to do the job.

Can you name three "horrible" things the Alliance has done in WoW? Just three things? And to knock out the more "popular choices" before they even start:

1.) Camp Taurajo -was- burned to the ground... but the General openly allowed civilians to escape and went out of his way to arrest looters. For his trouble the Horde utterly butchered him. Meanwhile the Horde kill civilians in any town they conquer.

2.) The "Dalaran Purge" did not involve mass murder. People were arrested (and for good reason) and only those who tried to assault Silver Covenant agents were killed.

And this is why I utterly loathe Horde players. They scream about how the Alliance is "Just as bad if not WORSE" than them, they have some smug self-righteous idea of being "freedom fighters" or some nonsense (despite waging about four wars of genocide) and then they claim Alliance players deserve to be treated like dirt. Because they're "really evil, smug, and monstrous".

To be honest, I'd much rather have an Alliance built more like an empire. One that goes out of it's way to kill Horde whenever they see them and one that wipes out all Horde towns in sight. At least then this smug "You're really evil TOO!" comments would make sense. But no. Instead we have quest givers complaining that fighting the Horde itself is "evil" and we get talked down too by the developers whenever we do try to fight back.

The ultimate "moral" that Horde players and Blizzard seem to push is "If someone is trying to take your land, murder your family, and exterminate your race... just let them, because by defending yourself you're actually evil!"

I could have use far more Lore to back my side up, but I don't feel like arguing, because I don't care. I'm not trying to instill faction loyalty like you seem to be. I've played both sides and know lore rather well, and every time I bring up that Orcs weren't always aggresive expansionists, it gets glossed over.

Originally hailing from the harsh, alien world of Draenor, the orcs were once a noble shamanistic people cultivating a mighty tribal society that was centered around survival, regulating themselves through ritualized combat and personal honor. Tragically betrayed by one of their spiritual leaders and delivered into the hands of the Burning Legion, the orc clans fell deep into demonic enslavement and were led into Azeroth as an unholy vanguard of the Legion ment to destroy everything in their path.

Again, not entirely their fault. I don't think humans of the Alliance would have fared much better if the roles were reversed. But, you know, let's hate on them anyway.

I only care about Orcs, Tauren and Blood elves in the Horde. I could not care less about the Forsaken. I already admitted that neither side is entirely innocent of wrong doing, so I don't understand why you still feel the need to be defensive.

I fully expect you to respond to get the last word in, but I wont bother after this because I couldn't care less about your faction pride and it will be promptly deleted.