Backwards Compability (Or why gaming sucks, period)

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chadachada123

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Acrisius said:
chadachada123 said:
I can't play SSX Tricky on my 360. THERE IS NO EXCUSE!
Oh, trust me, the raw fury from buying Prince of Persia: Warrior Within and having it be unplayable on my 360, while the previous version is perfectly playable, was barely contained by this planet.

Granted, Sands of Time is a better game, but still.
 

RoBi3.0

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Mar 29, 2009
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Solution: Stopping giving them money until they make the product that you actually want. Honestly that is what really matter to them. Everyone going "Well shit I hate that you did make the console I actually wanted, but here is my money anyway." Doesn't really provide any incentive for them to change their business plan.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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chadachada123 said:
Irridium said:
They're not much better. I know, I play on the damn thing. While sites like GoG [http://www.gog.com/], which is awesome and deserves all the money by the way, makes things easier, you still have the classic computer problems which are caused by the game itself/operating system/drivers/phase of the moon which then take you across the internet to a backwater forum where someone had the same problem as you, and there's no solution posted. It's almost always "Oh, I fixed it" without explaining how or no solution presenting itself.

But at least on the PC we have the option. With enough determination, you can more-often-than-not get something working. More than can be said for consoles, where you get the games they give you and have to deal. Still, at least they'll work without much of a problem.

With Nintendo consoles the games from the previous console (WiiU will play Wii games, Wii plays Gamecube games, 3DS plays DS games, DS plays GBA games, GBA plays GB games) will work on the next. Which, admittedly gets ridiculous when you have lots of systems. Better than the PS3/360 though.

The PS3 is only BC with PS1 games. Earlier models have full BC, but good luck finding those. And that's better than the 360, which stopped making things BC back in 2007.

Hm, seems no matter what system you have, it boils down to "pick which batch of problems you feel like dealing with."

Videogames, folks!
That's a bit disingenuous to say that Microsoft "stopped" making things BC in 2007. With the 360, they had to patch every single original Xbox game personally in order for it to be playable, for technical reasons. They made hundreds and hundreds of games, though generally only for the more-popular ones, backwards compatible that are still backwards compatible today.

It is by no means their entire library, no, but it's over half of their full library, and nearly all of their top-sellers. I'd say it's better to give the same BC-opportunities to all of their players than to pull a Sony and only give FULL BC to their first few batches of systems, and none or nearly-none for the rest. And given that it took actual resources to make stuff BC for the 360, I'd say it's a step up from Sony. Not that it's a pissing match or anything, but at least Microsoft had a reason for it.

Still, I'd wish that they could have just kept or developed a way to use the original Xbox framework as an emulator so that you wouldn't need to patch each game individually, and that could be a legit argument towards greed/laziness on their part.
Perhaps. Then again the list [http://support.xbox.com/en-US/games/xbox-games/play-original-games] hasn't been updated since November 2007, and says no further games will be added, so I think it's safe to say they've stopped.

Which means that Timesplitters, Spartan Total Warrior, SSX Tricky, Kingdom Under Fire Heroes, Beyond Good and Evil, and Oddworld Stranger's Wrath won't be made backwards compatible.

And that makes me feel like this:

:mad:
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
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Ah... Ahahahaha...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

And don't even get me started on the glory that is SCUMMVM.

So no, I won't ***** about it. People wonder why PC gamers can be elitist? This is why.
 

chadachada123

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Irridium said:
Perhaps. Then again the list [http://support.xbox.com/en-US/games/xbox-games/play-original-games] hasn't been updated since November 2007, and says no further games will be added, so I think it's safe to say they've stopped.

Which means that Timesplitters, Spartan Total Warrior, SSX Tricky, Kingdom Under Fire Heroes, Beyond Good and Evil, and Oddworld Stranger's Wrath won't be made backwards compatible.

And that makes me feel like this:

:mad:
I was only afraid of people interpreting "stopped" as "stopped making 360s compatible with any Xbox games, ala PS3" instead of "stopped making MORE games BC, but keeping the others still BC on all 360s." More of a nit-pick than anything, heh.
 

RESURRECTION21

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Mar 7, 2011
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Jester Lord said:
Xdeser2 said:
......360 has almost perfect backwards compatability
I have 20 Edit: (hard derp was hard) original xbox games. Only 5 are Bc..........................
no most of tht big name og xbox games are bc like gta and fable andkotor and halo and cs and soulcaliber and alot more they even do small games like the 007 games and some of the kid games iam not an xbox fanboy i am just say it is a shit ton more then 5 and my anbian just kicked in so i am going to sleep
 

RESURRECTION21

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Mar 7, 2011
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denseWorm said:
I had a PS3 for about six months... I really wished I had one with Backwards compatability, because I barely had any interest in most of the ps3's games but would have killed to have played MGS 2 and 3 again.

I wish I had a gamecube with tales of symphonia and ssx 3 :(
i have a gamecube and thouse two games
 

RESURRECTION21

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Mar 7, 2011
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MelasZepheos said:
Yeah, like how film companies have to offer you free DVDs of every video you bought!

Oh wait, it's almost like that's not how the world works at all.

No amount of whining and bitching is going to get rid of this. Backwards compatibility is a pain in the arse to programme (so I'm told by other people on this site) and I personally am just happy that some poor old worthless peon low down in the company somewhere is doing it at all (for 360 at least)

Things get harder to read/play/find as they get older. Books which are out of print can be ridiculously expensive if you damage your copy, old videos that never made it to DVD can be near impossible to find working copies of, and you need a no-longer-mass-produced piece of equipment to play them. Why should games be any different? Just because gamers have the internet and a tendency to ***** more?

And as has been pointed out, there are ways to get these games if you're dedicated enough. So if you were really such a fan of these games as you claim then you'd take the 'I'm dedicated' option, instead of the 'I don't want to do any of the work myself, I want someone else to do it all for me, then if it doesn't work (another problem with BC) I'll ***** and moan about that instead' approach.

If I want to play FFVIII (for example) I hook up my PlayStation 2. It takes perhaps 30 seconds since it sits right next to my XBox with the SCART cable ready to go. I change one socket at the mains, and one socket on the television. Bam, I'm playing my old PS1 and 2 games. That's not inconvenient.
yes but if your ps2dies in ten years and you can not find a new one you will be out of luck if the ps4 can not play the games
 

lacktheknack

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RESURRECTION21 said:
MelasZepheos said:
Yeah, like how film companies have to offer you free DVDs of every video you bought!

Oh wait, it's almost like that's not how the world works at all.

No amount of whining and bitching is going to get rid of this. Backwards compatibility is a pain in the arse to programme (so I'm told by other people on this site) and I personally am just happy that some poor old worthless peon low down in the company somewhere is doing it at all (for 360 at least)

Things get harder to read/play/find as they get older. Books which are out of print can be ridiculously expensive if you damage your copy, old videos that never made it to DVD can be near impossible to find working copies of, and you need a no-longer-mass-produced piece of equipment to play them. Why should games be any different? Just because gamers have the internet and a tendency to ***** more?

And as has been pointed out, there are ways to get these games if you're dedicated enough. So if you were really such a fan of these games as you claim then you'd take the 'I'm dedicated' option, instead of the 'I don't want to do any of the work myself, I want someone else to do it all for me, then if it doesn't work (another problem with BC) I'll ***** and moan about that instead' approach.

If I want to play FFVIII (for example) I hook up my PlayStation 2. It takes perhaps 30 seconds since it sits right next to my XBox with the SCART cable ready to go. I change one socket at the mains, and one socket on the television. Bam, I'm playing my old PS1 and 2 games. That's not inconvenient.
yes but if your ps2dies in ten years and you can not find a new one you will be out of luck if the ps4 can not play the games
If your VCR dies, and you can't find a new one, same issue with your video tapes.

Consoles are not obligated to have backwards compatibility any more than you're obligated to buy it. Never forget that.
 

chadachada123

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lacktheknack said:
RESURRECTION21 said:
If your VCR dies, and you can't find a new one, same issue with your video tapes.
Consoles are not obligated to have backwards compatibility any more than you're obligated to buy it. Never forget that.
That doesn't really fit as an analogy, since the early PS3s shipped with the software required to allow BC, but then they TOOK IT OUT in subsequent versions.

It'd be like selling blu-ray players that also play DVDs, then arbitrarily deciding to leave out the codecs for it on later versions. Not quite the same as not selling outdated *hardware.* (That's also assuming that Blu-Ray players normally can play DVDs and that there's no additional hardware needed to play DVDs over Blu-Ray).

Edit: No, it's not an obligation, but it's a pretty shitty and greedy thing to do.
 

Something Amyss

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snekadid said:
Rom it, you bought it once and as long as you still own a copy you have the right. The downloaded version is identical to the Rom and so is technically a copy of a game you purchased legally and copying a game for your own use is a legal practice.
And that technicality won't hold up in court. But at least you will have the "technically" moral high ground....
 

NiPah

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May 8, 2009
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Well shit I didn't know you could whine and ***** about something and then call the people who aren't whining spoiled brats, but you sir pulled it off. People were crying bloody murder when the PS3 came out at a price point of $600 but even at that price they were losing money on every system sold (new tech and Blurays being the main issue). I remember when the new systems started to come out, priced at $250-300 and they contained a game, but they weren't backwards compatible so you know what I did? Searched around and actually bought 60gig non-emulation PS3 for $500 (new from the store, this was about 6 years ago), didn't even have the game included.

And you know what? You can still go out and buy them, if BC is such a huge issue buy a used system for about $200-300 dollars, don't go flooding Sony's forum with a bunch of BS that will only annoy the average user and be completely ignored by the Sony staff.
 

Twilight_guy

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Nov 24, 2008
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I'm a programmer. Therefore I understand backwards comparability and legacy design from a different perspective. Legacy software is one of the biggest plights in modern software design, backwards compatibility is very reminiscent of it and its logic. I think its a little more complex then your argument puts forth, especially when dealing not only with software but also with hardware as consoles sometimes do. Also, your bitchy attitude makes me angry, but that's my personal problem.
 

Joccaren

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Mar 29, 2011
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Djinn8 said:
There is one solution...



...buy a PC
My first reaction when I saw this thread.
If you want to play an old game on a PC, there are about 3 ways to do it:
1. Install and run just like any other game.
2. Install, and run as administrator using XP compatibility mode [Or older, but usually XP]
3. Use DOSBox.

I run games from 26 years ago successfully with these methods.
Add to that the fact that there is an emulator for pretty much everything except the Xbox 360 ATM, which to an extent will come with Windows 8, and on your PC you are capable of playing pretty much every game made for a virtual system. Of course, it may take some work in some places, but you do get Backwards Compatibility.
 

Joccaren

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Mar 29, 2011
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GunsmithKitten said:
Yea, uh, disposable income insufficient. Got better things to do with 1000 bucks.
$1000 is too much, especially if you're going for a backwards compatibility PC. Try $400, maybe lower dependent on how good you want it. Cheaper than a release day console.
/me abandons thread before being tempted to post more PC related stuff.