Backwards compatibility is important, here's why...

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RESURRECTION21

comrade
Mar 7, 2011
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DragonLord Seth said:
RESURRECTION21 said:
DragonLord Seth said:
Keep both systems. Like the original 2 gens of Pokemon, but not their reboots? Still have that Gameboy or Gameboy Advance? Want to play an Xbox game that doesn't work on the 360-read: any original Xbox Star Wars game-well do you still have the original Xbox?
/thread
um not to be a dick but both kotors and the ep 2and3 games play on 360
Thank you for your very, important correction that could only be properly expressed through broken English and improper grammar! Because obviously the need to point out that two out of a dozen or so games still work was so overwhelming that you needed to try to correct me right then, not even waiting to spell-check your post! Do you think that I wouldn't have done my own research on this? Maybe I was trying to exaggerate, as many, many of the OX SW games do not work on the 360!
tl;dr lern2gramer
wow you are an asshole guy
 

RESURRECTION21

comrade
Mar 7, 2011
101
0
0
DragonLord Seth said:
RESURRECTION21 said:
DragonLord Seth said:
RESURRECTION21 said:
DragonLord Seth said:
Keep both systems. Like the original 2 gens of Pokemon, but not their reboots? Still have that Gameboy or Gameboy Advance? Want to play an Xbox game that doesn't work on the 360-read: any original Xbox Star Wars game-well do you still have the original Xbox?
/thread
um not to be a dick but both kotors and the ep 2and3 games play on 360
Thank you for your very, important correction that could only be properly expressed through broken English and improper grammar! Because obviously the need to point out that two out of a dozen or so games still work was so overwhelming that you needed to try to correct me right then, not even waiting to spell-check your post! Do you think that I wouldn't have done my own research on this? Maybe I was trying to exaggerate, as many, many of the OX SW games do not work on the 360!
tl;dr lern2gramer
wow you are an asshole guy
Maybe you should just grow up, proper grammar can serve you well in life, kid.
ok first i am 22 second english is not my first language so sorry if my grammar is off third i was just saying some star wars games are bc on 360 when you said not any of them worked on 360 i was just saying that some did i did not deserve such a rude response
 

ElPatron

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Jul 18, 2011
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remnant_phoenix said:
"You think it's subjectively more complicated. It's not a factual argument,"

As if this nullifies my statement? Do I really have to specifically explicate that something is my opinion without it being undermined with statements of "that's not factual"?
You replied me after I made a post replying to someone who said that it was an objective argument. Is it not.

s69-5 said:
Consoles are plug and play. PCs are not.
I'm still using windows XP. Can't get any more plug and play than that. Just a few months ago I took a screwdriver and opened up my computer. I scavenged an old hard drive, spent 5 minutes not knowing what I was doing and trying all the cables to see which ones fit, and the drive worked fine.

This is basically my process with consoles, except they do come with manuals. For computers I have to search on YouTube but I wouldn't really touch a working computer, right?

s69-5 said:
Your situation is very specific and therefore doesn't really count in the grand scheme. Especially since your problem does not come from the console itself, but from TVs.
Except I was talking about TV hardware specifically. I understand you skimmed past my post because I don't really have anything interesting to say, but if I'm worth a reply maybe the post was worth reading.

On the other hand, consoles need TVs to play and I was talking about the subjective nature of this argument. That means of course you think consoles are easy - it's your own opinion, not a fact.
 

teisjm

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Mar 3, 2009
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Since I think the benefits of backwards compatibility is obvious to everyone on this site, i'll focus on why it might not be as good and idea.
Keep in mind though that, as a consumer, i would very much prefer my consoles backwards compatible, but these are just thought on why it might not be a big enough deal, to justify the added cost.
I'm gonna assume that it will make the consoles more expensive, to make them backwards compatible.

It's redundant.
Joe has a bunch of PS2 games lying around, but his PS3 is not backwards compatible. Yet Joe is not that sad about it.
How can he be so indifferent you might ask?
It's simple really, if he has the PS2 games, he most likely have the PS2 as well. Having the games, without the console is something very few people would have, (apart from situations where the console broke down ofc)
I don't use my wii for GC games, despite it beeing backwards compatible, because i have my trusty old GC for that.

Theres not really that big of a market for previous-gen games.
The game market is flooded with games. Games come out faster than most people can play them, if they strived to play them all.
I'd guess the people who wishes to seek out old gems, instead of getting a new game (or last years new game that has now dropped to a more costumer-friendly price) are a small minority.
I've heard many times before, that "core gamers" make up a minority of the market, catering to a minority within the minority, the group of core gamers who wish to replay a specific old game, might not be profitable bussiness, save for a few high-profile games, or previous installments in a series that spanned over console gens, god of war and metroid prime, for instance.
I'm well aware, that prev-gen games are re-released, and i've seen some people scorn it ála "I already bought god of war years ago, why the fuck should i pay for it again! rage rage rage"
Well you shouldn't then.
I don't think the re-releases of older games are meant to cater to the people who already own them.
I for one bought the god of war collection and the ico/SotC collection for my PS3, because i never had the chance to play those games on the PS2, because i didn't have one.
If they hadn't been re-released, and in a nice 2 for 1 pack, i probably wouldn't have gotten around to search for old PS2 copies, even if the PS3 had been backwards compatible.
Especially the god of war collection seems to me, to be catering more to the people who didn't play the first 2 games before, but who wants to catch up on the series before playing the 3'rd game.
If you already have them for your old system, and have played them already, why bother buying them again for the new system?

In the end, i don't really know if i'd be interested in paying a significant amount extra for backwards compatibility. Theres already coming more new games out that spark my interrest than i have time to play.
I actually find the current model, where they re-release classics and fan-favourites for the new consoles work just fine, because they let people who didn't play them on their original system get a chance at them, without costing the people who doesn't care any money, and i don't see why people who already own the original versions of the game, and their native consoles care.

Old consoels needs love as well, use them for their respective games.

Just some thought
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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remnant_phoenix said:
Ah, so me saying "Me thinking" and "I think backwards compatibility is important" is so far apart from me saying "My thought" and "we need backwards compatibility" that you just had to correct me on how to express my own opinion? Thanks.
So when you said the prior bits I quoted, were you lying? Are you calling your past self a liar? You used those words, feller. It sounds to me like you're retconning because you were caught in the ridiculousness of the claptrap you posted.

You shifted away from definitive statements only AFTER I commented on your post.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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RESURRECTION21 said:
ok first i am 22 second english is not my first language so sorry if my grammar is off third i was just saying some star wars games are bc on 360 when you said not any of them worked on 360 i was just saying that some did i did not deserve such a rude response
No offense intended, but they don't have caps or punctuation in your native script?

That seems to be the biggest issue with the so-called "grammar" of your post.
 

remnant_phoenix

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Apr 4, 2011
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Zachary Amaranth said:
remnant_phoenix said:
Ah, so me saying "Me thinking" and "I think backwards compatibility is important" is so far apart from me saying "My thought" and "we need backwards compatibility" that you just had to correct me on how to express my own opinion? Thanks.
So when you said the prior bits I quoted, were you lying? Are you calling your past self a liar? You used those words, feller. It sounds to me like you're retconning because you were caught in the ridiculousness of the claptrap you posted.

You shifted away from definitive statements only AFTER I commented on your post.
"My thought: this is why we need backwards compatibility," is not different enough from "In my opinion, this is why I believe we need backwards compatibility" that it really matters, or at least, it shouldn't matter (in my opinion, of course, as it seems that you need that specifically spelled out for you). Just because the former quoted statement is more definitive than the latter doesn't mean that I was trying to make an objective claim. They are both expressions of opinion, and only someone who is obsessively technical or easily threatened wouldn't be able to see that.

So no, I'm not calling myself a liar; I'm calling you an overly technical hair-splitter who is so caught up in trying to discredit me through semantics that any possibility of us constructively discussing the topic at hand is lost.
 

Rellik San

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Feb 3, 2011
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s69-5 said:
Please pay attention...

For the third time:
The post is that PC is harder than Console, which it is. You don't need advice threads on setting up the console. It's common for the PC.
In your opinion.

Here's the bit they don't tell you about building a PC;
If it's not meant to go there, it won't fit there. Pretty basic stuff, I can assemble one in about 30minutes, about the same time it takes me to Hook a console up to my TV.

Admittedly I use a tool free tower, which does cut assembly time down by a ridiculous amount.

But my point remains, by the time I've set my X-Box up to the TV and Surround Sound systems it's about as long as it takes me to put my PC together.

But as I say, that's just my experience and you have yours, it's basically looking at numbers and going "yup those match".

Just to clarify, I'm not seeing either is harder, I am saying both are just as complicated as each other.
 

ChildofGallifrey

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May 26, 2008
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Backwards compatibility is important to me because I own twice as many PS2 games alone as games of this generation across all 3 consoles. I'm willing to pay more for a console that will let me play my older games.
 

manaman

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Sep 2, 2007
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s69-5 said:
ElPatron said:
I can choose parts for a new computer but I don't know how to choose a TV that will let me read the goddamn subtitles. You think it's subjectively more complicated. It's not a factual argument, I don't know much about computers but I simply don't understand TVs.
Sigh...
Really?

It's either SD or HD. Plug in, use game that says "Xbox360" and you are set to go. If you have a PS3, use the games that come in cases marked PS3, and you are set to go.

PC uses so many different components and usually games have requirements posted on the box which reads to the layman like stereo instructions (so to speak). Just because you have a PC, it doesn't mean you can run every game. Just because you have a high end PC, it doesn't mean it will run older games. You have to know what part does what, what program to use, what video/ sound cards are needed, ram, etc...

A typical consumer does not know that information, sadly enough.

The benefit of the console is, as the previous poster said , that it is objectively easier.
That's always been their main draw - plug 'n play.

PS. If you can get a computer to run on an old SD TV (like you were doing with the HD console) the subtitles will look fuzzy as well.
Nah, It is either SD, ED, HD. It is flat screen CRT, CRT, rear projection, or flat panel. It is LCD, LCD LED, plasma, OLED, AMOLED. It is back lit, side lit, projection. Is the projector DLP or LCD? etc.

That is all before you get into the filters, and other technical specs they don't even list on the price card at the store.

The games and systems are designed to be usable with the widest range of displays possible, but that doesn't mean that knowing what is best both for your room, and what you intend to use it for does not take some knowledge.

Throw an AV receiver in the mix and you got even more to mull over.

As for getting a PC to run on an older SD tv (and by that I believe you mean a tube TV as early LCD tvs where also lower resolution and small), well you run into an issue called overscan. Overscan displays a portion of the image (the edges) off screen. The intent is to reduce noise and other issues along the boarders of the image of anything broadcast. With modern TVs you can turn overscan off on all of the inputs, with older TVs you usually couldn't. However nothing else was preventing you from adjusting the resolution and displaying any image on the TV as sharp as anything else you watched on the TV.

As for the complexity of games. Well a PC typically won't run older games because of issues other than the components in them, unless you are talking about really old games. Usually a compatibility issue that can often be fixed, and with popular games usually the fix is already laid out in easy to follow instructions or a patch. Not that this should be an issue, a console isn't going to play games out of it's generation anymore and even when it could it was usually only the generation before.

It really isn't as complicated as you are trying to make it. It's about as complicated as selecting a TV. Even buying your computer prebuilt you should know what video card is in it, and how much RAM is installed. This whole mythos that it's complicated is just a petty little argument usually presented by people that are never willing to give it a try. Whole sites exist that you can go to, select your game and click the "can it run it" button. You can't get much simpler than that.

I didn't bother to touch on the couple of the oddball complaints. I am just going to guess you never gave PC gaming a chance, and have no idea what you are talking about as a consequence, or it's some obsure situation you ran into once.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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remnant_phoenix said:
"My thought: this is why we need backwards compatibility," is not different enough from "In my opinion, this is why I believe we need backwards compatibility" that it really matters, or at least, it shouldn't matter (in my opinion, of course, as it seems that you need that specifically spelled out for you).
Well, technically you are right. Both are endorsing the thoughts you posted as ones in line with yours. Unfortunately, that doesn't change anything. You're saying "this is why we need backwards compatibility," then saying "woah, hey, that's not what I'm saying."

Except you really are.

You complain about me needing things spelled out, but the real problem is you're claiming you're saying something separate from what you mean. And at the same time, you keep coming back to saying the same thing.
 

leonhax

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Jul 5, 2011
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who else was annoyed to find an absolute classic like KOTOR and its sequel to be near impossible to run on windows vista and 7, i mean here is a game that is still sold at your local eb games still in 4 disc just the way it came out years ago and yet the only system that can run it with close to no fault is XP. backwards compatibility should be a bigger thing that more devs in the gaming industry should look towards otherwise the games we grew up with and loved will be gone forever.
 

Joccaren

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Mar 29, 2011
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leonhax said:
who else was annoyed to find an absolute classic like KOTOR and its sequel to be near impossible to run on windows vista and 7, i mean here is a game that is still sold at your local eb games still in 4 disc just the way it came out years ago and yet the only system that can run it with close to no fault is XP. backwards compatibility should be a bigger thing that more devs in the gaming industry should look towards otherwise the games we grew up with and loved will be gone forever.
I haven't tried the original on 7 yet, but I've got no problems running KotOR 2 on 7. Install, run, not glitches, bugs, crashes or otherwise. Also using the restored content mod so maybe that helps, but I wouldn't think it would do that much.
My only problem with it is that it doesn't support 2560*1440 resolution, which means I get a lot of screen sitting there doing nothing. There's probably a fix for that somewhere, but I can't be bothered looking for it.
I know one of my friends has KotOR 1 running on 7, but I'm not sure if he had to do much to get it to work or not, I'll have to ask him some time.
 

leonhax

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Jul 5, 2011
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Joccaren said:
leonhax said:
who else was annoyed to find an absolute classic like KOTOR and its sequel to be near impossible to run on windows vista and 7, i mean here is a game that is still sold at your local eb games still in 4 disc just the way it came out years ago and yet the only system that can run it with close to no fault is XP. backwards compatibility should be a bigger thing that more devs in the gaming industry should look towards otherwise the games we grew up with and loved will be gone forever.
I haven't tried the original on 7 yet, but I've got no problems running KotOR 2 on 7. Install, run, not glitches, bugs, crashes or otherwise. Also using the restored content mod so maybe that helps, but I wouldn't think it would do that much.
My only problem with it is that it doesn't support 2560*1440 resolution, which means I get a lot of screen sitting there doing nothing. There's probably a fix for that somewhere, but I can't be bothered looking for it.
I know one of my friends has KotOR 1 running on 7, but I'm not sure if he had to do much to get it to work or not, I'll have to ask him some time.
with the later versions of 7 (more expensive), it was a lucky thing if it did end up working, like the change of a little configuration would mean the difference between the game running crystal clear to it not working at all, and i mean thats not to say that kind of thing didnt happen with XP. but not as badly as it does now on vista and 7. XP would take a dramatic rig change for it to maybe not play an older game really
 

Squilookle

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remnant_phoenix said:
As we go into the next generation of consoles, I hope that devs keep the importance of backwards-compatibility in mind.

Thoughts?
Here's a relevant thread you might find quite interesting. Might want to check it out.
 

remnant_phoenix

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Apr 4, 2011
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Zachary Amaranth said:
remnant_phoenix said:
"My thought: this is why we need backwards compatibility," is not different enough from "In my opinion, this is why I believe we need backwards compatibility" that it really matters, or at least, it shouldn't matter (in my opinion, of course, as it seems that you need that specifically spelled out for you).
Well, technically you are right. Both are endorsing the thoughts you posted as ones in line with yours. Unfortunately, that doesn't change anything. You're saying "this is why we need backwards compatibility," then saying "woah, hey, that's not what I'm saying."

Except you really are.

You complain about me needing things spelled out, but the real problem is you're claiming you're saying something separate from what you mean. And at the same time, you keep coming back to saying the same thing.
I'm saying that "This is why we need backwards compatibility" is simply an expression of my subjective opinion and isn't the sweeping, categorical, attempt-to-be-objective judgement that you are making it out to be.

I've done all I can to make that clear, but you insist on repeating yourself and using hair-splitting technical semantics in attempt to discredit me.

So I'm done. I won't be replying to any more of your quoted posts.
 

remnant_phoenix

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Apr 4, 2011
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Squilookle said:
remnant_phoenix said:
As we go into the next generation of consoles, I hope that devs keep the importance of backwards-compatibility in mind.

Thoughts?
Here's a relevant thread you might find quite interesting. Might want to check it out.
Thanks!

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