Barack Obama and Socialism

[Imitation Saccharin]

Have you actually read the bible?

I just know the disgusting, horrific parts

it's celebrated on that particular day is tradition. This does not divert meaning from the holiday in any way.

So you're saying the holiday has purely traditional elements? Elements that have nothing to do with Christ?

 

[Chiasm]

All I have to say in these type of debates it comes down to the middle class vs the middle class, Those who filthy rich don't care about raising taxes because when they have to pay 10 cents more they just raise the price of goods by 10 cents to make up for it. The people who pay are the people who work hard and make 40-50k and end up being taxed heavily because the 20-30k middle class guy thinks he is only effecting the super rich and not the upper middle class people. Lesson in all of this support yourself and do not worry much about other people.

I mean no one really seems to give two cents about the poor. When was the last time you wanted to help the foster care system,Or the last time you said hey it isn't right that robbing someone of 500$ is more of a crime then being a business man who steals all of his workers 401k plan. I mean really there is far more issues effecting people in low class families then health care. I'd settle just for a foster care system that didn't bounce you from one drug ridden group home to the next.

 

[Alex_P]

Okay, so where is the socialism?

Is it in Obama's tax plan? Looks like a pretty typical tax plan to me. Now, sure, like most tax plans, I hope it gets heavily modified before it's implemented, but I really don't see anything super-socialist about undoing part of the early-2000s Bush tax cuts.

Is it in the healthcare plan? Everyone says "socialized medicine" and stuff. But, I dunno, every bit of information I've been able to find implies that Obama's healthcare thing basically doesn't affect me. I'll just keep what I have and costs will shift up or down by a little bit. His whole argument seems to be that we already pay extra to cover the uninsured, so we should systematize that to make sure it's done efficiently and equitably. Again, where's the socialism?

-- Alex

 

[Chiasm]

You seem to have some foster care... thing...

And uh. 40-50k people would get a tax cut as well under Obama. It's the 250k people who don't.

What's going on with this thread. When I got here it was bumping with more then a post a minute. Now nothing.

Abit,But really there is far more things wrong at the moment for low class families then health care.I just always found when your a pawn or working class every time you make the rich less rich they just seem to raise the cost of everything. Why it seems as wages go up price of living goes up as well its like a hamster wheel.

Either that or I am a jaded liberal who listen to one to many stories of 10 cent bread.

 

[glambo]

Who gives a shit the US government is obviously corrupt.

is there a government in this world that isnt? i think its a given that all politicians/leaders are in some way. it comes with the fucking territory.

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

3) Although I do not quite share pillowfire's "enthusiasm" for Socialistic policies, I must agree with his above statement: no one can point to a country that ended in revolution, adopted Socialism as its guiding light, and stayed the course into a communal society.

/ fucking thread.

Wait, Obama is talking about a revolution before adopting 'Socialism'? I think you're confusing him with Tracy Chapman.

He's not arguing against Obama, he's arguing against socialism. Pay attention.

I am--and your post started with:

"My question to Obama supporters is this: Do you agree that his policies are socialist in nature, if not why not, and if so, why don't you care?"

So now you no longer believe that they are? If there's a difference between what "Obama is talking about" and "Socialism" big enough that you can "argue against" one and not the other and anyone who doesn't see that difference should "pay attention," you must mean we've convinced you Obama's policies are not socialist.

Yay :-D

No - this thread hasn't been about Obama for about 4 or 5 pages.

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

As a side note - look at the man's wife. She's clearly a far left socialist - check out some quotes here with some scathing review from Glenn Beck:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgc4zm3XrBc

 

[axia777]

I openly like Socialistic values and hope we get more of them in America. There, I said. I want things like Universal Health Care. I also like that we have programs like Welfare and Food Stamps. 47 odd million people with no heath cafe in this nation is sign of times that we have a serious problem. A social safety net in a nation is a good thing. Only the selfish and uncaring say otherwise.

All the GOP and their corporate buddies can say is "Trust in the private health care system, it will take care of us all and fix all our problems." Yah right, they are the ones that have fucked this all up in the first place. Because when has any corporation put people ahead of quarterly earning and stock values? NEVER, that is when. Things like health care should be a human right, not a corporate business.

I also like Capitalism and the free market. These are American values that should stand as long as America does. But things like health care should not be a business. Because things like health care involve the well being of our fellow Americans. The sell being of people should never have a quarterly stock value or dollar amount set to it. That is just wrong no matter how you slice it.

Obama FTW in 2008.

 

[Spleeni]

Uh....
Question!

Are there legitimate areas where socialisim could better profit our society on a whole, rather than our current system? I really can't think of anything right off the bat.

Money has to come from somewhere....free healthcare is a good thing for the uninsured and a bad thing for the insured.

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

You know what's funny? The left wingers bleat endlessly about the GOP being the party of the rich, but Obama has spent more money on a presidential election in history - he's raised far more money from his corporate fat cat democrat cronies than Mccain has, and has spent more than 3 times the amount McCain has on TV commercials. So much for the party of the rich...

Hell, he even bought a 30 minute infomercial to take place before a sporting event, and when time got short, obama decided that rather than have him cut some time that it would be better to forgo the national anthem. Not that he would have bothered crossing his heart while it was sung, but still...

You'd think that a presidential candidate would at least PRETEND to be patriotic, why do his supporters not care about this?

 

[Alex_P]

I googled "Obama socialist" and started reading various links. Most of the results were conservative blogs. I decided to specifically muck through those.

There are basically two types of conservative blog posts about Obama and socialism:
A. The ones that talk a lot about nationalizing industry, planned economies, unions integrated with government, &c. and conclude that Obama is not a socialist; most then proceed to say that Obama's worse because he's either a typical regulation-obsessed liberal or a completely amoral hat-switcher who will say and do anything to get elected.
B. The ones that say he is a socialist are all trying to handwave their way through it with "Hey, taxes are just taxes, but if you tax the rich more than the poor, then it is always necessarily socialism!" Occasionally Ayers is mentioned.

Even if I was the kind of guys whose nethers quiver every time his eyes pass over a right-wing shibboleth on some random blog, I still wouldn't trust the "Obama is a socialist" guys. Their arguments are a lot fuzzier and more handwavy than the "Obama is not a socialist" bloggers' (also they contain fewer right-wing shibboleths).

-- Alex

 

[axia777]

You know what's funny? The left wingers bleat endlessly about the GOP being the party of the rich, but Obama has spent more money on a presidential election in history - he's raised far more money from his corporate fat cat democrat cronies than Mccain has, and has spent more than 3 times the amount McCain has on TV commercials. So much for the party of the rich...

Actually most of that money came from grass roots organizers and people who donated $20 here and $20 there. So what were you yammering about again?