Barack Obama and Socialism
- Thread starter Mistah Kurtz
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Obama is socialist the same way Eisenhower was socialist. Oh, how quickly Americans forget to account for all those Interstate Highways built in the '50s with colossal federal subsidies, one of the biggest American government programs ever and one that still distorts your "pure" market economy by artificially driving down the cost of long-haul truck transport and long-distance automobile travel.
Or how about the Air Traffic Control system? There's a big socialist program paid for by taxpayers; perhaps the market would be more efficient if the costs of running that system were slapped onto every ticket?
And again I'll point out that there are socialist-based mixed economies that are quite prosperous in Europe; and there are strong social programs in Japan propping up (for instance) their incredible railroad system and their banks.
Ike was socialist by today's definition, and I find that a sad commentary on today's GOP.
-- Steve
Or how about the Air Traffic Control system? There's a big socialist program paid for by taxpayers; perhaps the market would be more efficient if the costs of running that system were slapped onto every ticket?
And again I'll point out that there are socialist-based mixed economies that are quite prosperous in Europe; and there are strong social programs in Japan propping up (for instance) their incredible railroad system and their banks.
Ike was socialist by today's definition, and I find that a sad commentary on today's GOP.
-- Steve
It's just a shame Ayn Rand is dead, I would've enjoyed kicking a copy of 'Atlas Shrugged' at her.Doug post=18.74687.843600 said:
Proving that many homeless people use drugs or are drunks does not in any way possibly imaginable prove that the homeless are in their position because of drugs. There are plenty of people who do drugs or who are alcoholics who are not homeless and your statistics from the NYT would be better supporting the argument that being homeless forces people into drugs as they need a way to escape their terrible lives and that helping people out of such extreme poverty would also save many from the tortures of drug addiction.Mistah Kurtz post=18.74687.843459 said:
comparing american democrat party with USSR comunism is something really stupid to make, and about the tax things to the rich I imagine every democrat president did something similar(correct me if I'm wrong i'm not american)
I really don't know why people still think socialism and communism is the same and I REALLY DOUBT he wrote in his autobiography that he choose marxists and socialists
and, as I'm living in Spain I'll talk about what I know. I'd vote for the left wing party(which is called IU)..although politics here tend to lie even more than in other countries and they talk too much and then do nothing apart from fucking up the country even more or either, if you're in the opposition doing fuck all except ***** about everything the government does instead of giving practical solutions...so...
my conclusion is..ALL HAIL THE MUSHROOM KLAN
I really don't know why people still think socialism and communism is the same and I REALLY DOUBT he wrote in his autobiography that he choose marxists and socialists
and, as I'm living in Spain I'll talk about what I know. I'd vote for the left wing party(which is called IU)..although politics here tend to lie even more than in other countries and they talk too much and then do nothing apart from fucking up the country even more or either, if you're in the opposition doing fuck all except ***** about everything the government does instead of giving practical solutions...so...
my conclusion is..ALL HAIL THE MUSHROOM KLAN
Any chance of seeing any of these sources Mistah Kurtz? Or are they "general knowledge"? And whats with your obsession with college students?
If you're going to say that Socialism was the cause for the USSR massacres you'll have to say that Capitalism was the cause for the slavery in America, the Roman Empire (who slaughtered or enslaved a huge swathe of the world), the Egyptian Empire (ditto), the British Empire (who made the biggest empire ever seen by putting ashore and shouting "Bagsy" and then killing any dudes who disagreed), the exploitation of sweatshops, exploitation of other countries natural resources, obesity, collapse of the environment (not just global warming but deforestation and an absurd reliance on fossil fuels), modern human trafficking (slavery by any other name tastes as vile), Saddam's regime (funded with oil money which was then used to buy weapons), illegal drugs and the gangs surrounding them.
The problem with the USSR interpretation of Marxism was not with any inherent flaw in philosophy but the sad truth that deciding you want to be the ruler of the country takes a large degree of megalomania. This is why we have parliaments and congress and the like to curtail the power of the head honcho. Which works fine so long as the ruler doesn't ignore them and invade a country and set up phone taps anyway. Hey I want to get my digs in before Bush is gone, is that so wrong?
If you're going to say that Socialism was the cause for the USSR massacres you'll have to say that Capitalism was the cause for the slavery in America, the Roman Empire (who slaughtered or enslaved a huge swathe of the world), the Egyptian Empire (ditto), the British Empire (who made the biggest empire ever seen by putting ashore and shouting "Bagsy" and then killing any dudes who disagreed), the exploitation of sweatshops, exploitation of other countries natural resources, obesity, collapse of the environment (not just global warming but deforestation and an absurd reliance on fossil fuels), modern human trafficking (slavery by any other name tastes as vile), Saddam's regime (funded with oil money which was then used to buy weapons), illegal drugs and the gangs surrounding them.
The problem with the USSR interpretation of Marxism was not with any inherent flaw in philosophy but the sad truth that deciding you want to be the ruler of the country takes a large degree of megalomania. This is why we have parliaments and congress and the like to curtail the power of the head honcho. Which works fine so long as the ruler doesn't ignore them and invade a country and set up phone taps anyway. Hey I want to get my digs in before Bush is gone, is that so wrong?
Nice QFT.norsef post=18.74687.843693 said:
Also I'd like to add there is a difference between moderate socialism in a democratic context and full blown Bolshivism
Drugs are an escape. Lets think for a minute. Who is more likely to take drugs, the person who has everything going for them, or the person without a home, without a job, and who cops abuse day and night from people who stereotype them from the second they see them.Mistah Kurtz post=18.74687.843521 said:
So often it is not the fault of the person on the street, so much to external and often uncontrollable events that kick them while they're down. Wait, now. Before we hear the power of will and the courage of the human spirit, contemplate the situation.
There is only so much a single person can take before they can take no more. Those people who overcome unfathomable amounts of adversity. They're the exception, not the rule. Those people who are on the streets, the people who you are essentially telling to go die. They've most likely been through more hard times than you have ever had and you look down on them from the comfort of shelter, safety and knowing where your next meal comes from.
The experiences you posted about, your delving into drugs, but stopping BEFORE you got addicted. That takes willpower, I actually give you my congratulations on that.
Now if that takes a decent amount of willpower. Lets look at a situation that better describes a homeless drug addict. You are addicted to hard drugs, you have little to no assistance from the government, no assets.
Getting off heroin is no small achievement, it requires a person to have willpower beyond the regular call of duty for a human being. With support and something to look forward to, it can be done.
What does a homeless drug addict have to look forward to in the current conditions. That person will not become successful, the brightest outlook is often three minimum wage jobs and a two room apartment. Where does one go from there? There is nowhere to go.
I put to you that addiction is in fact a disease. The drugs you take do mess with your body, and your mind much the same way physical and mental disorders do. They are diseases. It may be argued that it is brought upon themselves, I would like to say that it is the same in many cases of physical and mental diseases. Continuous use of "Casual" drugs such as Marijuana are very well known to cause a variety of mental health disorders ranging from depression to schizophrenia. Cigarettes, which I remind you are perfectly legal, cause enough health problems on their own to keep a privatised medical industry in business forever. Lifestyle related diseases also extend to heart disease, which is most commonly brought on by an unhealthy diet. Alcohol is once again, legal, causes liver problem and is often the cause of violence and injury.
Do all of these people deserve medical treatment?
Of course they do. Whatever mistakes they have made and the ones they continue to make do not take away their rights to live. They are not bad people for the mistakes they make, they are HUMAN. People who make mistakes are normal, functioning members of society and there is not a single person alive today, who has not made thousands of mistakes. The degree of which are the only thing that separate us as individuals.
It does appear that you entered this with an opinion and with no intention for it to be touched by whatever anyone says. That condescending tone to people who disagree with you, and association of other people's opinions with something that is widely considered negative, while using that to undermine other people's intelligence. It's a rather childish way to go about things.
I quote this.
That's why some addicts kick the stuff - they choose to. It's called WILLPOWER, not that I'd expect a communist to understand that.
Your smug comment implying that someone with this opinion is a communist, as well as further undermining their knowledge, is not arguing a point. It's just absolute crap. Your opinions are by no means wrong, or stupid, but that kind of crap is.
Yeah but I prefer the choice in providers rather than letting the government decide whats best for me for me. Also there is a myth that you would not receive care without some sort of insurance. Hospitals can Not deny you necessary care yeah you can be hit with a bill for it but they take payments. Usually the govn't ends up footing the bill anyways.( I also can't understand why people can;t get healthcare, I work retail and I get it(cheaply).scarbunny post=18.74687.843321 said:
The whole mentality of socialism is people do not want to worry about their lives, I see it all the time at work people just trying to get by on the minimum. All they want to do is go drink after work scrape by in college there is no aspiration no drive for something. They want a safty net because they expect to fail. They wouldd rather spend 200 a month on cell/internet/cable etc. than put that money towards healthcare or something. It kills me when I see people at work with new car payments and then complain they want healthcare for free or that they don't have money for gas/food/whatever.
Hmm I think our average income/GDP per capita would disagree not to mention lower taxes.Eggo post=18.74687.843831 said:
I'd rather live in a socialist country this one may become than under the thumbscrews of the Corporate Oligarchy that those two could very well turn it even further into.Eggo post=18.74687.843844 said:
