BBC and the licence fee - a good thing?

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SenseOfTumour

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I was in the thread about 4chan being reported on BBC news, and I got to thinking how much I like the BBC and what they do, and despite being on a tight budget, thinking I've got a pretty good deal compared with cable and satellite. I often see the BBC getting bashed for various things, and rarely any praise. I've cut n pasted a chunk of my post over here, slightly edited:

I was more commenting on the BBC specifically, as many of the newspaper media owners also have large interests in satellite, cable or other TV stations, and would very much like to see the BBC put out of business, or at least the licence fee killed off (which I think would kill the BBC, or at least reduce to the level of another ITV, being forced to make mediocre 'lowest common denominator' stuff to appease advertisers.

I read a wonderful quote recently that sums up the BBC wonderfully:
'The BBC is not a taxi service, you don't get to demand exactly what you want, what happens is you get on and it shows you everything, and you can get on and off where you like, but don't complain because we drive thru some areas you don't like, you don't have to get off there.'

Personally I'd like it more if they stopped trying to please the mythical 'average viewer even more, and left the ratings battles to ITV and channel 4 and 5, but, sadly they've been dragged into ratings battles to prove 'value for money'.

Another thing is I believe the BBC news is one of the most balanced news services out there, and while not perfect, less biased than most. In fact usually the only time I hear it called biased, it's generally followed by 'and they've hired another bloody darkie to read it too, can't understand a word' and other such educated reasonings.

I'm not the most positive person on here I know, but I do think the BBC is one of the few things remaining Britain can be proud of, and we'll feel the loss if it's broken down for scrap. for me, Mock the Week and QI are worth the £12 a month or so that I pay. Anything else is a bonus.

What I will criticise them for is the godawful people they have working for the TV licencing dept. They're rude, borderline fraudsters, intimidating, will do their best to con you, and regularly lie to people to get money from them. If I could change anything, I'd change that area.

However, I'm going to put those people aside and keep it just to the idea of 'the BBC, is it worth the £150 a year to you, and if not , how would you fund it?' Note that losing the licence fee would lose the unbiased news, the websites, the radio stations, as well as the TV.

I do think they could cut back on some things and work on making more profit worldwide from their shows, both in selling to other channels and the DVDs.

For instance, if they put their archives online as downloadable for £1 per 30 mins or part of, there's not the risk of pressing DVDs that may not sell, and it's free money essentially. There's a lot of niche interests that wouldn't sell loads but would sell the few thousand or so needed to make it worth the effort. I know I download a lot of old comedy purely because it's not available in any form.

I'd also be interested in non-Brit views here, if you've seen BBC shows, do you think they'd be worth paying for?
 

SenseOfTumour

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Damn that was long, and I thought of something else.

It seems it's been over the past 10 years or so that the newspapers have really been digging their nails into the BBC, picking holes at any scandal or outrage, and I also think it's been the last ten years that the output has been declining in terms of risk taking, it seems the BBC are trying more and more just to please the masses in the safest possible ways. Yes, I'm talking about Strictly Come Dancing, Springwatch, etc. Just very bland, safe entertainment, tho they redeem themselves after the watershed with Mock the Week and the like, tho I still feel Frankie Boyle was pushed out for causing too many BBC complaints. I think they need to grow a pair and stop rolling over everytime some dummy complains.

Really, who watches a late night comedy panel show after 10pm with 7 stand up comedians on and gets all shocked when someone says 'bum'? If I didn't want to see rabbit's entrails I wouldn't watch Animal Hospital (Or any cooking show). I wouldn't tune in specifically then write a letter.
 

tomtom94

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May 11, 2009
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SenseOfTumour said:
Damn that was long, and I thought of something else.

It seems it's been over the past 10 years or so that the newspapers have really been digging their nails into the BBC
That's partly because The Sun, the Times and I believe the Express are all owned by Rupert Murdoch (he of Fox and Sky fame)

I'm not old enough to pay the licence fee yet, but I do wish the BBC would drop rubbish like EastEnders and give more opportunities for newer writers to get into the business.
 

Valkyrie101

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Are any British news programs (TV, this is) particularly biased? I know the BBC has a left-wing bias, though not a particularly strong one, but none of them seem very one-sided in the same way that newspapers are.

I think the BBC's ok, not especially great but provides a decent service.
 

Liberaliter

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I don't mind the license fee because the BBC has some quality programmes, it really does allow for a lot of good shows.
 

wooty

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Aug 1, 2009
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I dont mind paying the fee for certain things, occasionally we get great shows like Life on Mars, Ashes to Ashes, Match of the Day and Sherlock.

But in the space of a year, these take up maybe 2 days worth of entertainment, where on earth does the rest go? Other than seemingly paying for the cryostasis chambers that keeps Bruce Forsythe and David Frost alive.
 

DaJoW

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Not a Brit myself, but from what I've heard and seen of the BBC it seems worth it, just like our (Swedish) version. The fact that they get their money regardless of who's in power and without a need to focus on any group in the news broadcasts should, and does here, give them the freedom to report fairly.

I have heard that they've taken the "balance" bit too far though. In order to not raise one party above another, I heard their commentators more or less said "Everyone did very well" after debates leading up to the election even when someone performed obviously better/worse than the others.
 

whattheblub

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As a German living in england I can assure you that the guys from tvlicensing are far less annoying than their german equivalent from the GEZ (I get a letter every year telling me to register a TV - would be nice if they'd assume that I let them know by myself once I get one) From my point of view the BBC offers high quality television. Especially the documentaries are well researched and presented. Plus if they renamed the license fee into TopGear money I would even pay it with a smile on my face.
 

Mr Shrike

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Aug 13, 2010
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I have nothing against the Licence Fee as my dad works for the BBC.

wooty said:
Where on earth does the rest go? Other than seemingly paying for the cryostasis chambers that keeps Bruce Forsythe and David Frost alive.
The rest pays for the BBC News, Monitoring, Overseas and Translation. As well as BBC1, BBC2, BBC3 etc etc etc you get the idea. Keeping all those things afloat requires a stupid amount of money.
 

Trivun

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SenseOfTumour said:
Damn that was long, and I thought of something else.

It seems it's been over the past 10 years or so that the newspapers have really been digging their nails into the BBC, picking holes at any scandal or outrage, and I also think it's been the last ten years that the output has been declining in terms of risk taking, it seems the BBC are trying more and more just to please the masses in the safest possible ways. Yes, I'm talking about Strictly Come Dancing, Springwatch, etc. Just very bland, safe entertainment, tho they redeem themselves after the watershed with Mock the Week and the like, tho I still feel Frankie Boyle was pushed out for causing too many BBC complaints. I think they need to grow a pair and stop rolling over everytime some dummy complains.

Really, who watches a late night comedy panel show after 10pm with 7 stand up comedians on and gets all shocked when someone says 'bum'? If I didn't want to see rabbit's entrails I wouldn't watch Animal Hospital (Or any cooking show). I wouldn't tune in specifically then write a letter.
Regarding complaints, I think it's good that the BBC has Points Of View still, for people to specifically air their complaints directly for the BBC to address and discuss. Anyway, as a license payer myself (since being at university, my parents used to pay before then :p), I'm perfectly happy with the BBC. There are plenty of exceedingly good quality shows on there - Coast, Mock The Week, QI, The One Show, BBC News (one of the few news outlets I actually trust aside from Reuters), Doctor Who, Sherlock, Spooks, Coming Of Age, Live At The Apollo, John Bishop's Britain, Michael McIntyre's Comedy Roadshow, Merlin, My Family, half the documentaries they show...

I could go on. Really, I could. And yes, I do have an excessive love for comedy shows. And that's not even taking Radio 1 into consideration (well, radio in general, but as a young indie/alternative rock loving guy Radio 1 is my main place, specifically Edith Bowman and Zane Lowe's shows...). I feel that for my money I get a massive amount from the BBC, and so I feel my money is being very well spent. Fine, there's plenty of stuff that doesn't interest me, but I have no need to watch all that. If I don't like something, I'll change the channel, as I would with any of the free channels like ITV or Five (yeah, that second one was a joke - who seriously watches Five anyway?). There is still more than enough high-quality viewing to make me feel my money is being well-spent, regardless of the high wages they charge their stars like Jonathan Ross (although even then, in some cases even those wages are justified, like with Bruce Forsyth or Graham Norton, for example...). And the best bit is, no adverts! I can honestly say, I'd be happy paying the license fee purely for the lack of adverts, and that is no exaggeration...
 

SenseOfTumour

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Trivun said:
SenseOfTumour said:
Damn that was long, and I thought .
Regarding complaints, I think it's good that I can {snip} cos it's just up there, look!
One thing I wish they'd do is make compliments easier to register, they've got dedicated channels and phonelines and mail depts all ready and waiting to deal with complaints that someone showed their bum on TV 2 minutes before 9pm, yet if you want to praise them for something they've done right, it seems to be actually write a proper letter, or drop a note on the forum which I imagine isn't carefully read daily by people in charge of production somehow.

I'm with you on comedy, there's so many great things on the radio too, BBC 7 gives new writers and performers a lot of breaks, as well as running old shows from the 50s like Hancock and the Goons thru to the 90s like Chris Morris's On the Hour, or Fist of Fun with Stewart Lee. I'm also pleased the witchhunt to destroy 6 Music fell thru as I like the way they give comedians DJ jobs, as their banter is inevitably far more interesting than most peoples.
 

SenseOfTumour

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Valkyrie101 said:
Are any British news programs (TV, this is) particularly biased? I know the BBC has a left-wing bias, though not a particularly strong one, but none of them seem very one-sided in the same way that newspapers are.

I think the BBC's ok, not especially great but provides a decent service.
I don't believe so, I hear there's a mild left bias, but to be honest if so, it needs to be there, as most of the newspapers want every foreigner out of the country (doesn't matter if they've been here for three generations, if they look a bit foreign), the BBC dismantled, anyone not working full time put to a firing squad and the NHS scrapped and turned into car parks.
 

SenseOfTumour

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whattheblub said:
As a German living in england I can assure you that the guys from tvlicensing are far less annoying than their german equivalent from the GEZ (I get a letter every year telling me to register a TV - would be nice if they'd assume that I let them know by myself once I get one) From my point of view the BBC offers high quality television. Especially the documentaries are well researched and presented. Plus if they renamed the license fee into TopGear money I would even pay it with a smile on my face.
I feel like I'm personally responding to every post here, I'm sure I'll slow down soon, but the TVLicensing people over here have a very bad name. Essentially, if you dont have a TV licence, you're assumed to be dirty, fee dodging scum, and there's no way in hell that you could possibly just, you know, survive without a television. A lot of people get monthly letters threatening fines, legal visits, court orders, and the like, unless they get a licence now, with very little hints at why you might not need one.

Also when I moved into my flat, in november ...of one year, I instantly signed up for a TV licence, and when I received it, they'd backdated it to April, because that's when the last guy moved out. I then had to prove my move in date to them before they'd change it, despite me going to them, paying and volunteering all my information.

Daft thing is, legally I could quit paying my licence fee as I don't use my TV for anything but my consoles, and only watch TV on the web, like the iplayer. however, morally I feel I get so much from them I carry on paying, on top of not wanting to get harrassed by their licence people.
 

Ophiuchus

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If I had a TV, I would have absolutely no issue with paying the licence fee... for pretty much every reason stated in the OP. I currently only use my TV as a monitor for my PC and consoles, which means a lot of iPlayer. My TV watching would be virtually nil without the BBC and, without their website, my news consumption would be absolutely zero.

To condense a potentially long ramble: the BBC is quite possibly the thing I'm most proud of in this country. If it ever became like the commercial channels, I firmly believe I'd never watch TV again.
 

SenseOfTumour

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Mackheath said:
Fixed for you.

The media's fixation on BBC bashing is most likely for the reason said above; Rupert Murdoch has a beef with the Big Beeb, and uses all of his media Trolling power to make folk hate them.

Whilst I think the Beeb is a dinosaur and should economise instead of charging a frankly outrageous fee every year to people to watch one channel. None of the others do it, so why should they?
I know you're on my side, but a quick glance at the iplayer, (this is mainly for non brits), shows 10 TV channels provided by the BBC, 1,2,3,4, News 24, Parliament, two childrens channels (not just full of badly dubbed cheap cartoons, either), and a HD channel, among others.

On top of that, they support 11 national radio stations, covering a ton of tastes, not just the typical 'dozen chart songs on repeat every hour', then a station for Scotland, Ireland,Wales, and the World Service.

on top of that, about 30 regional radio stations, and the website.

I'm in agreement about economising to a degree, but feel it would just lead to more and more 'reality shows with phone ins' because they're cheap and profitable, and far less in the way of award winning drama, comedy, documentaries and the like, as they're not as 'popular' as another show about D list celebs doing a bit of a dance.
 

tomtom94

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May 11, 2009
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Mackheath said:
tomtom94 said:
SenseOfTumour said:
Damn that was long, and I thought of something else.

It seems it's been over the past 10 years or so that the newspapers have really been digging their nails into the BBC
That's partly because The Sun, the Times and I believe the Express are all owned by Rupert Murdoch (he of Fox and Sky fame)

I'm not old enough to pay the licence fee yet, but I do wish the BBC would drop rubbish like everything but Doctor Who and give more opportunities for newer writers to get into the business.
Fixed for you.
Ooooooooooooooh. I personally love Doctor Who, but:
Mock the Week, Have I Got News For You, Russell Howard's Good News, Mitchell and Webb, Armstrong and Miller, The Impressions Show, Total Wipeout, New Tricks, Spooks, Torchwood, TOP GEAR...

Whilst I think the Beeb is a dinosaur and should economise instead of charging a frankly outrageous fee every year to people to watch one channel. None of the others do it, so why should they?
I will be honest, adverts ruin a viewing experience.
Not showing adverts forces the BBC to fill a full half hour, which means more programming which does actually improve the experience.
Also, lower budgets certainly force comedic writers to think a lot more.
 

Plinglebob

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Nov 11, 2008
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I'm more then happy to pay the license fee to make sure Radio 4, Top Gear and Doctor Who keep getting made. I can't remember the last time I watched anything on a commercial channel because the adverts always piss me off so its also worth it just for some advert free TV.
 

RobCoxxy

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SenseOfTumour said:
What I will criticise them for is the godawful people they have working for the TV licencing dept. They're rude, borderline fraudsters, intimidating, will do their best to con you, and regularly lie to people to get money from them. If I could change anything, I'd change that area.
Now they are a bunch of assholes.
I bought a tv to use as a monitor, despite writing in to say "This is solely used as a monitor" three times, I was constantly harassed at uni by TVL.

Now I've moved out, so any other letters get sent to my old accomodation adress. Ha bloody ha.

The website used to be handy as well, clearly stating: "You need not buy a license if your tv is used solely as: A monitor, for watching DVDs or Playing Video Games.. You only need to pay if you watch live tv in any way."

Now the website pretty much says "Pay up or else."