BBC Debate: Games Aren't Art ... Yet

[Carnagath]

Asking whether something is "Art" or not is pointless. The question is wrong in itself, because there is no official uncontested definition of what art is. It's a personal question. What is art for someone, is NOT art for someone else. A toilet is not art for me, but apparently it is to others. Jackson Pollock's lines are also not art for me, because when I look at them I feel nothing and they seem completely pointless. For other people, he is one of the greatest artists that ever lived. That's fine. Can we just agree to that and go on with our lives?

 

[The Last Nomad]

Games are art, no question about it. Even the boxs they come in are art. But I suppose it really depends on what your opinion of what art is, and I don't mean to sound like an asshole about this but if your opinion of art differs from mine, I don't care if you consider games are art or not. To me they are.

 

[TheDoctor455]

Uhh...
Two Words:

Planescape. Torment.


Well hell...
most of Black Isle/Troika/Obsidian's work could count.

 

[Stealthfighterx]

Dear Esther comes to mind...

 

[Artemicion]

The NEA disagrees. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109835-Games-Now-Legally-Considered-an-Art-Form-in-the-USA]

That is all.

 

[theriddlen]

I hate it when people try to say what is art and what is not. It's a subjective term - you may think of something as art, and i may disagree.
Also, let me put it this way:
-Books are considered art.
-Music is considered art.
-Movies are considered art.
->GAMES include
-Books (for example, DA had 9 novels of text)
-Music (often made by famous composers)
-Movies (some games have tens of hours of cutscenes)
-Code
Still don't think games are art?

 

[Szayel Aporro Granz]

I'm sorry but to everyone saying that entertainment is art...

Jersey Shore

I love Jersey Shore I have never missed an episode, but it is clearly NOT art.

Other the other topic of whether or not games can qualify as art~~

Some can, and other can't, and in different ways. A certain artistic style in a videogame can be considered art, the quality of the graphics, to a degree, could be considered art, the narrative of a videogame could be considered art, even how the ideologies that the creators expressed in the game could be considered art. There are some videogames that are just not art in some of these aspects. For example, Saint's Row. The ideologies are clear in that videogame and are expressed through a gang. That, in some cases could be considered art. Then you have games like Final Fantasy XIII in which the graphics completely blew me away, as did the music. Okami (never played but I've seen a bunch of stuff about it) has an amazing art style, as does Borderlands. Chrono Cross and Chrono Trigger have AMAZING depth of character and story and could be considered art.

~~

That is all...

 

[harvz]

from what i saw from that skyrim trailer thing, i think it has a bit of potential to be considered art, other than that, there are many games i would consider to be artsy, most are from ps2 days but still.

 

[Speakercone]

Anytime someone says that x or y is or is not art, I ask for a definition.

If you tell me your definition of art and then tell me, for reasons of illustration, why x or y would or would not fit, then we can have a conversation about whether your definition holds up to scrutiny, perhaps forming a new definition which describes what we want it to.

We could do that like rational adults; or we could have you make a declarative statement then leave. Either way works, but one of those ways makes you look like an asshole.

 

[mgirl]

things that allow us to ask profound questions about who we are, how we live and the state of the world around us

Hm, well if thats the criteria, I can think of a few examples of that sort of thing from games that might not be considered 'arty'.

Fallout 3 - the mission where you are given the choice of kidnapping a baby from its parents for the good of a large group of slaves. I paused the game and had to think for a long time before I made my decision. It made me consider whether the right of a child to be brought up by its parents who clearly love it should be sacrificed for the good of the many. It made me consider my own morals and what I deem to be right and wrong.

The same can be said when during mass effect 2, during Legion's loyalty mission, you choose between destroying or rewriting the geth that are your enemy. I wasnt as torn during this one, but it seriously made me think.

Could either of these games, in causing me to reflect on myself and my morals, be considered art? and surely the things that cause us to reflect on who we are, how we live and so on will be entirely subjective?

 

[Baldry]

But let's face it - most games aren't art. Fallout 3 might have a very nice style and contemplative moments... but at the end of the day you are still using a shot-gun to blast a Super Mutant's face into gory chunks. There's not much artistic merit to games like Quake or Call of Duty or Battlefield (and I play and love all those types of games... they're just not art. I certainly wouldn't put any military FPS in a museum and show it to future generations).

To be fair Fallout 3 did make me question whether or not I am a good person and if I was in the same situation as the vault dweller would I make the same decisions despite the consequences.

And they say art is moving but I've never actually been moved by a drawing, some movies and games have actually moved me and made me think about the world so does that mean art is not art?!

 

[Alandoril]

Games are art, but not all games are art.

 

[GonzoGamer]

If you don't think entertainment and art cross (which is a bit absurd; that seems to make the assumption that as soon as art is entertaining it's no longer art), then no of course games aren't going to be art, very few movies, songs, and books too.
But I was always under the impression that most art is entertainment.

 

[mb16]

art/ärt/
Noun:
The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination.

well i think we can all agree that to make a game you need some "creative skill and imagination."

 

[TheBelgianGuy]

Do we really want pretentious hipsters to ruin games as well?

 

[instantbenz]

A far more interesting question is why acquiring the "art" label, a label you'd be sharing with such luminaries as Tracey Emin [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracey_Emin], matters to the gaming community in the first place.

Source: Eurogamer [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-01-bbc-debate-games-arent-art-yet-but-thats-okay-article]


Permalink

Money. Grants are available now as the Endowment looks at it as an art form. Grants that could lessen the amount of day-job crap that some innovative code-writers need to do to get cool stuff to the masses.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

The fact that the industry needs the approval of people who neither know nor care about games in order to improve is quite sad actually.

Again, you could say the same about Music (X-Factor/Pop Idol), Literature (Genre Fiction still isn't recognised), Journalism, Cartoons, Graphic Novels etc.

All Industry's need approval of those who don't know about the Industry. Because they're the ones with the ability to promote it to those who don't care.

And once there, then it receives the all important funding.

What would Computer Games be without people like Clive Sinclair, Alan Sugar, Gail Wellington?

Long before we saw the likes of Gates and Jobs.

The entire idea of the console industry is taking games to those who don't know and don't care; and making them know/care.

 

[Chevy235]

Considering what is considered art these days (hey look, a circle! And my name IN BIG BOLD PRINT right below it) maybe games are better off not being considered as art.

I'd rather games be, you know, fun and enjoyable than retarded egotrips lauded only by beret'd know-nothings seeking to prove they're hip and with it (yes, that is my actual opinion of the current "art" scene").

 

[OuendanCyrus]

Are people still really that bothered whether video games are art or not? To me, it does not change a single thing on my view of video games; they're entertainment, escapism.