Before you go defending Phil Fish...

[wulf3n]

The guy asking the question did identify himself as a japanese game designer

I missed that part, it was hard to understand him.

 

[RaikuFA]

Did you even watch the video? That's not what he asked.
He asked "what do you think about recent japanese games?"

And Phil's response "they suck".
Then if you watch the last part of the video, he compares two Zelda games, old and new to expand upon his rather undiplomatic first bit. They don't bully or humiliate the guy, they talk about the games.

Really buddy, you're just looking for reasons to hate on the guy, and while there might be stuff out there that would support your desire this video is not one of them.

Did you notice how they all patiently waited for the guy with bad english to ask his question? He was nervous, took a while, but they all waited and no one interrupted or commented on him. They commented on the games. They're game designers. And they don't like current japanese games. And they answered his question and gave reasons why.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

I think the problem isn't with the rationale behind what Fish is saying, it's how he says it, and his tendency to blur the subject of his sentences between Japanese games and Japanese People.

The video starts off with Fish saying Japanese games suck, which is fair enough, but he then starts talking about the people with quotes like "You people need to get with the times" and "You people need to design better Interfaces".

The guy asking the question did identify himself as a japanese game designer, so when he responded he was saying "you Japanese designers" essentially, including the guy asking the question. And yeah, so Phil lumped game him and all those designers into the same group but, is he the only one guilty of that? Yahtzee doesn't like JRPGs for example.

Point is, just because the guy is a bit brazen in how he delivers his opinions doesn't mean he deserves to be treated like garbage. He made a joke and generalized, then the other guy piped in with a more balanced response, and then Phil responded in kind with a balanced response himself.

The programmer on Super Meat Boy, at one point basically dismisses all AAA studios as being complete trash or something to that effect. Or, he'll never work their because of *reasons*. Is not that equally damnable? People are people.

Actually, he does a bit, he just dosen't like how many these days care more about how they look than story/gameplay. He's said he loves Earthbound, FF6, Chrono Trigger and The World Ends with You.

 

[Charli]

It just seems to me like another person shot to stardom who never learned the subtle art of tact and is now suffering for not learning it.

And finding it very hard to deal with.

He needs to get it together.

I will not defend nor comment on such arrogance since I myself have never been in his position.

 

[Dr Pussymagnet]

The problem folks is that the criticism was entirely unwarranted, it had no place. He did not ask Fish about this thoughts on Japanese games, he asked Fish what about Japanese games inspired him.

We clear on that? He attacked the guy for absolutely no reason, and that's why there's a witch-hunt and it's deserved.

wat

No seriously, what? That was exactly the dudes question. He wanted to know what they thought of modern Japanese games so they...*gasp*... answered the question! I know it was blunt answer from Fish but I'm much more willing to believe it was just an attempt at humor gone wrong and not any sort of malice on his part.

Could he have answered it better? Sure, but I can't believe this is what the internet decided to latch onto to direct their hate towards Fish

 

[Vigormortis]

Are the recent Zeldas and Marios not too hand-holdy? What exactly am I supposed to be disagreeing with? The majority of the video was people other than Fish talking, and they all happened to agree with him. Why is this video directed at Fish?

This is a witch hunt and a hate campaign. I will take no part in this.

Pretty much exactly what this is. A witch hunt.

Most of the animosity towards Fish stems from his "they suck" comment. Most of the rest is predicated on the already-present hatred from that comment.

Yet, if people would actually take the fucking time to listen to what he and the other panel members were saying, they'd realize that the panel members actually like Japanese games, but they don't like the direction that industry is trending in.

Hell, they even criticized western game design. But no one brings that up, of course.

Granted, the man could have worded his initial response in a...less twat-y fashion. But that doesn't change the fact that the man in the audience asked for his opinion on the current-gen of Japanese games, and Fish then responded with his opinion.

'Course, that hasn't stopped people from tunnel-visioning on the "they suck" comment and acting as though Fish simply brow-beat the guy.

Now to be fair, Fish has made other crude comments since that panel. But you know what? Most of them were on the back of being incessantly harassed by asshole gamers and dick-bag media pundits. All of whom seemed to make it their personal mission to make Fish pay for that "they suck" comment.

That said, will I defend Fish? Hell no. Not entirely, anyway. The guy can be pretty damn crass. There's no denying that.

However, I'm sure as hell not hopping on the hate train people like the OP seem hell-bent on pushing forward. The internet and gaming community at large have been far more cruel and "douche-y" than Fish has ever been.

 

[michael87cn]

Are the recent Zeldas and Marios not too hand-holdy? What exactly am I supposed to be disagreeing with? The majority of the video was people other than Fish talking, and they all happened to agree with him. Why is this video directed at Fish?

This is a witch hunt and a hate campaign. I will take no part in this.

Pretty much exactly what this is. A witch hunt.

Most of the animosity towards Fish stems from his "they suck" comment. Most of the rest is predicated on the already-present hatred from that comment.

Yet, if people would actually take the fucking time to listen to what he and the other panel members were saying, they'd realize that the panel members actually like Japanese games, but they don't like the direction that industry is trending in.

Hell, they even criticized western game design. But no one brings that up, of course.

Granted, the man could have worded his initial response in a...less twat-y fashion. But that doesn't change the fact that the man in the audience asked for his opinion on the current-gen of Japanese games, and Fish then responded with his opinion.

'Course, that hasn't stopped people from tunnel-visioning on the "they suck" comment and acting as though Fish simply brow-beat the guy.

Now to be fair, Fish has made other crude comments since that panel. But you know what? Most of them were on the back of being incessantly harassed by asshole gamers and dick-bag media pundits. All of whom seemed to make it their personal mission to make Fish pay for that "they suck" comment.

That said, will I defend Fish? Hell no. Not entirely, anyway. The guy can be pretty damn crass. There's no denying that.

However, I'm sure as hell not hopping on the hate train people like the OP seem hell-bent on pushing forward. The internet and gaming community at large have been far more cruel and "douche-y" than Fish has ever been.

I agree with this guy. Its good to see some people thinking before just hopping on the hate train.

You should never judge someone negatively or positively just because everyone else is. Facts first, always.

 

[default]

He was a massive asshole to that poor fellow, but god damn it is he right when it comes to game design (even though I didn't like Fez), and the second fellow too. I am so sick of being pushed down a corridor with bloody text boxes popping up in my face over and over again. It takes me out of the experience and ruins my fun, personally. Give me a massive, dangerous, mysterious open-world and basic tools with which to face it anyday. That's one of the reasons I love Dark Souls and the original LOZ so much.

 

[The Preened Mr. Fust]

Are the recent Zeldas and Marios not too hand-holdy? What exactly am I supposed to be disagreeing with? The majority of the video was people other than Fish talking, and they all happened to agree with him. Why is this video directed at Fish?

This is a witch hunt and a hate campaign. I will take no part in this.

Pretty much exactly what this is. A witch hunt.

Most of the animosity towards Fish stems from his "they suck" comment. Most of the rest is predicated on the already-present hatred from that comment.

Yet, if people would actually take the fucking time to listen to what he and the other panel members were saying, they'd realize that the panel members actually like Japanese games, but they don't like the direction that industry is trending in.

Hell, they even criticized western game design. But no one brings that up, of course.

Granted, the man could have worded his initial response in a...less twat-y fashion. But that doesn't change the fact that the man in the audience asked for his opinion on the current-gen of Japanese games, and Fish then responded with his opinion.

'Course, that hasn't stopped people from tunnel-visioning on the "they suck" comment and acting as though Fish simply brow-beat the guy.

Now to be fair, Fish has made other crude comments since that panel. But you know what? Most of them were on the back of being incessantly harassed by asshole gamers and dick-bag media pundits. All of whom seemed to make it their personal mission to make Fish pay for that "they suck" comment.

That said, will I defend Fish? Hell no. Not entirely, anyway. The guy can be pretty damn crass. There's no denying that.

However, I'm sure as hell not hopping on the hate train people like the OP seem hell-bent on pushing forward. The internet and gaming community at large have been far more cruel and "douche-y" than Fish has ever been.

That's pretty much it though, the guy is a massive tit and seeing him throw a huge hissy fit because someone else acted like a massive tit towards him is what many would call Just Desserts.

 

[RyQ_TMC]

I think the problem with Fish and his behaviour is that while he is really full of himself, he also tries to cultivate an "arrogant dickwad" persona. Then it bites him in the ass when he makes a genuinely arrogant statement and everyone latches on to his obvious attempts at humour as "proof that we should murder him!" Seriously, the amount of times people brought up his "I should be charging you $90" tweet in the recent threads is good evidence that, for all the escapists claiming genius-level IQ, normal distribution is just as applicable here as elsewhere.

He retired from the industry, or rather took his ball home and will probably be back in a few months/years. As long as he stays silent, all attempts at "proving he deserves all the shit we're flinging at him" amount to a lynch mob. The way he's being treated by the gaming community is disgusting. I was under the impression you're not supposed to kick people who are on the ground, but apparently that's only when the violence starts.

Hell, I haven't played nor do I have any interest in Fez, I only occasionally heard anything about Fish (usually in the context of "he's arrogant", true), and now I find myself defending this guy. I tend to stay on the sidelines of most big controversies around here, but I can't stand a witch hunt.

 

[Something Amyss]

They're idoits.

They're indie devs. Of COURSE they're idiots.

Are the recent Zeldas and Marios not too hand-holdy?

That was John Blow.

Phil Fish was the guy who said Japanese games sucked, and to "get with the times" and update their technology despite making retro titles specifically emulating dated technology.

Also, it is really ridiculous to pretend this is a Japan only problem, and bringing up an East v West thing in terms of hand-holding is just stupid. But he wasn't talking about Blow. Fish justifies only after the fact, after a bunch of other people talk and try and soften the blow. No pun intended.

It's almost like he was addressing the comments which were specific and unique to Blowfish.

Yeh, this.

They spoke their minds. If anyone can't handle that, that's their own issue... 'cause you should be able to handle a man with a job also having an opinion.

And Blowfish should be able to handle a man with a job also having an opinion. Funny how that comes right back to the major point people are making about Blowfish.

Don't start crying foul on the gaming community when it outs an asshole (god just saying gaming community makes me feel dirty), he's been stoking this fire and it's become exactly what he wants it to be: big enough for people like us to talk about him when he and his little game should be ignored.

Come on, it is totally unfair that people treat him like a contemptible douchebag just because he routinely acts like a contemptible douchebag! It's his right to speak his mind and free speech means total immunity from criticism!

Given the tone of this thread, I feel I should point out that was sarcasm. Too many people seem to actually believe it.

Well, the Japanese man's actual question was "What do you think about recent Japanese games?"

I won't claim he attacked the Japanese guy, but for the points above, Blowfish sounds really stupid and lacking in awareness of what he himself does. He's either trying to be controversial, or really has his head that far up his ass, and either way, it shows more than just this once.

A lot more.

 

[Something Amyss]

That's pretty much it though, the guy is a massive tit and seeing him throw a huge hissy fit because someone else acted like a massive tit towards him is what many would call Just Desserts.

Or, as the internet calls it, "a witch hunt."

I'm honestly amazed at this phenomena.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

snip

You might be reading into things that you needn't.

I don't give a monkeys if people want to criticise Fish, he genuinely does seem like a bit of a tit... though I do dislike how shitty we all are to each other online, and would like for things to be less snarky in general.

My post was to say that the contents of this video aren't justification to be mad at him. He shared an opinion, and it was a valid opinion(if he sees it that way). I laugh at the attempt to use it to stir up righteous indignation.

 

[Something Amyss]

My post was to say that the contents of this video aren't justification to be mad at him.

Done so with a heaping helping of irony, given the scenario. Don't be surprised if people comment on it.

 

[Caiphus]

I won't claim he attacked the Japanese guy, but for the points above, Blowfish sounds really stupid and lacking in awareness of what he himself does. He's either trying to be controversial, or really has his head that far up his ass, and either way, it shows more than just this once.

A lot more.

I don't have a huge opinion on Phil Fish either way. I think getting riled up over him is a waste of time. He seems like a generally nasty person. The internet hate bandwagon can be tiring though. Jim Sterling covered this in his recent episode (which you may have watched). So I wouldn't entirely blame someone if they were prone to trying to fight fire with fire by flaming the trolls (although goodness knows that never works).

That said, being nasty at panels and, allegedly, lying to judges at indie dev competitions has nothing to do with responding to trolls. This particular video isn't that bad; it sounds like Phil was encouraged by the crowd for starters. It still showed a lack of empathy and tact on his part, which is exacerbated by his history of similarly stupid rhetoric. Not thoroughly worthy of internet hate, in my opinion, but what is? I can't even get worked up by EA these days.

In any case, whatever. The gaming community has lost one semi-decent game designer. I'm sure one will be along to replace him shortly, hopefully one that can manage himself publicly.

 

[Vivi22]

I think the problem isn't with the rationale behind what Fish is saying, it's how he says it, and his tendency to blur the subject of his sentences between Japanese games and Japanese People.

The video starts off with Fish saying Japanese games suck, which is fair enough, but he then starts talking about the people with quotes like "You people need to get with the times" and "You people need to design better Interfaces".

He talks about Japanese games sucking and then says what Japanese developers are doing wrong, and puts it bluntly. I'm really not seeing the issue there. He wasn't personally attacking this guy. He wasn't saying all Japanese people are idiots or anything, he was saying, quite clearly despite his generalizing about the Japanese gaming industry, that the industry over there has some big issues. Which they do.

I fail to see what is so bad about this video when he isn't actually attacking anyone and is basically just saying that Japanese developers, in general, are behind the curve now in video game design and development. Which they are, and pretty much anyone who follows the industry would readily admit.

Honestly, if I had been in his shoes, I probably would have opened up with "they suck" too, which leads into expounding on why they suck. Why is it a bad thing that someone decided not to tip toe around the obvious for fear of hurting anyone's feelings?

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

My post was to say that the contents of this video aren't justification to be mad at him.

Done so with a heaping helping of irony, given the scenario. Don't be surprised if people comment on it.

I must be missing the elephant sized heap of irony in the room. Can you point me at it?

Unless you think I have a stick in my ass about people having a stick in their ass, and that's the root of it? Let me assure everyone that I have no stick in my ass, and that as far as I'm concerned, you can have as many, or as wide a stick in your ass as you please. I just won't share in the experience with you.

 

[PatrickXD]

There was a language barrier issue, and the panel was asked what they think about the Japanese game industry, recently. They all answered honestly, and even Phil Fish - despite his initial play for laughs - continued to give some constructive advice with the Legend of Zelda comparison.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with this.
I think Phil Fish is a perfectly fine guy, and that everyone should go watch the latest Jimquisition. Having 'thick skin' can only go so far, and it is okay to be upset by people shitting on you.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

What? Sure he was rather blunt, but he made some rather valid points most of which I agree with. I fail to see the problem here. It's not like he verbally attacked and insulted the guy.

 

[Sunrider]

I expected, with all the "Don't be rude to other people"-circlejerk going on on these forums, more people would condemn his pathetic attempt at humour and then just call it a day instead of defending him.