Belief - When does it stop being your parents' and become your own?

[Jamboxdotcom]

But ultimately isn't even a very light system, even if it is not full indoctrination, still going to cause people to lean to something they otherwise would not?

unfortunately, that same reasoning is often used by people trying to enact censorship. "Children are too young to think for themselves" is a bad viewpoint, no matter how well intentioned.

Children are impressionable, like little sponges. I was raised catholic and even though I am no longer practicing I will say that the damage is done. I have made a choice, but I have already been ingrained with a set of morals even if I only loosely follow them now. And this isn't just passively being fed to them where they have a choice, this is being fed to them by parents, friends, religious figure heads, the cartoons they watch, books they read. So, I don't see how the argument for censorship applies to this case.

well, the problem i see, and kind of what i was trying to get at with my comment, is that i don't see how it's possible to raise children in a vacuum. as someone else noted above (also you did), children absorb everything. the only way to avoid that is to expose them to nothing. and that, in my mind, is completely unfeasible. not only that, but i feel that exposing them to "nothing" could even be irresponsible.

also, i would ask a personal question: do you feel that the "set of morals" you had ingrained in you are a negative thing? don't misunderstand me, i realize that much of what most (if not all) organized religion teaches is bullshit and hatred, but there is also much good there. do you feel your religious upbringing was a net negative? or is it a break-even or even slightly positive?

 

[Verlander]

When the child has seen and rejected the other options available.

Summed up in first post, well done

 

[RatRace123]

It stops being your parents belief and starts being your own when you start forming your own ideas.
The racist children example, those kids had the opportunity to learn another way, but they were content in their beliefs to not even bother looking.
Whether that's brainwashing or not, I can't say. I think if you really want to find another way of looking at things, you will, despite what your parents may think.

 

[lacktheknack]

Bloody... I DESPISED that film. With a passion.

When the child can successfully defend their faith without wondering what their parents would say. Alternatively, when they have extremely good questions about their faith they want answered, and refuse to "just accept it".

Oh, and by the way:
http://www.google.com/recaptcha/api/image?c=03AHJ_Vutl5IjKpQ6upk_u85nRRNB2E6twQgz0EkNz6wrDC18xJ9a2TFB2FZrKWHjWCm0kLGRKrkDRqj3XnZBZbFe0V5ztrsLOWkW2L1RhfmglM8dxWEIKzAx81NKTUXoUFeqhaweM3QgcTJ9aV0uCpMWfsKL8-qw

 

[Wintermoot]

when you start questioning your belief and start looking for alternatives and end up with your own belief

 

[MrJoyless]

its funny that you are talking about church camp and indoctrination therein

because it was that exact thing that made me change my mind about religion

seeing how the "cool" church kids treated everyone like shit and abused them in the bunks with the so called adults letting it happen made me think of how much bullshit i was being fed at this camp for religious assholes

thats when i decided fuck it, im not going to be an asshole to anyone, help people when i can, and respect other cultures...and if thats not enough for god then fuck him he doesnt deserve a person like me anyway

 

[dkyros]

But ultimately isn't even a very light system, even if it is not full indoctrination, still going to cause people to lean to something they otherwise would not?

unfortunately, that same reasoning is often used by people trying to enact censorship. "Children are too young to think for themselves" is a bad viewpoint, no matter how well intentioned.

Children are impressionable, like little sponges. I was raised catholic and even though I am no longer practicing I will say that the damage is done. I have made a choice, but I have already been ingrained with a set of morals even if I only loosely follow them now. And this isn't just passively being fed to them where they have a choice, this is being fed to them by parents, friends, religious figure heads, the cartoons they watch, books they read. So, I don't see how the argument for censorship applies to this case.

well, the problem i see, and kind of what i was trying to get at with my comment, is that i don't see how it's possible to raise children in a vacuum. as someone else noted above (also you did), children absorb everything. the only way to avoid that is to expose them to nothing. and that, in my mind, is completely unfeasible. not only that, but i feel that exposing them to "nothing" could even be irresponsible.

also, i would ask a personal question: do you feel that the "set of morals" you had ingrained in you are a negative thing? don't misunderstand me, i realize that much of what most (if not all) organized religion teaches is bullshit and hatred, but there is also much good there. do you feel your religious upbringing was a net negative? or is it a break-even or even slightly positive?

I will say that they are certainly not negative. Definitely not a guilt free religion though. Even saying that, I plan on raising my child under some religious denomination, perhaps even catholicism.

 

[dagens24]

[sub]Wrong forum, it may be pedantic but the things there for a reason...[/sub]

Someones already said it- not until you've considered the alternatives does whatever system of belief you have become yours instead of something you've been brought upto to believe in.

Perhaps on the of the biggest problems I have with religion is it seems to be demonize this concept, and for that matter it seems to demonize the very concept of indepedant thought.

Sorry, but how is this the wrong forum?

should be in the Religion and Politics forum, not Off-topic. i didn't even notice that at first, or i would have mentioned it

But this isn't really about religion or politics, it's about belief. I used Jesus Camp as an example of indoctrination but I'm not trying to pick on religion or anything. I could have cited racial beliefs, cultural beliefs, economic beliefs, environmental beliefs, belief in aliens, etc.

I apologize to anyone who thinks that this is an attack of religion. I mean, I am an atheist but taking a critical look at religion isn't my intention here.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

But this isn't really about religion or politics, it's about belief. I used Jesus Camp as an example of indoctrination but I'm not trying to pick on religion or anything. I could have cited racial beliefs, cultural beliefs, economic beliefs, environmental beliefs, belief in aliens, etc.

I apologize to anyone who thinks that this is an attack of religion. I mean, I am an atheist but taking a critical look at religion isn't my intention here.

well, honestly i'm glad you didn't post it in R&P, as i have never had the guts to venture in there, so i may not have seen this otherwise. but i know some people get terribly offended at this sort of topic, so that's why R&P exists. as long as no one gets upset, it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[DuctTapeJedi]

But ultimately isn't even a very light system, even if it is not full indoctrination, still going to cause people to lean to something they otherwise would not?

The best solution is to not mix any kind of religion in with the summer camp.

Christian summer camps aren't just Jesus camp 24/7. There's maybe an hour of Bible study a day, with a few contemporary hymns.[footnote]Chosen by the kids. They decide what songs to sing, and usually pick a mixture of secular and religious.[/footnote]

And Bible study discussions are led (sort of) by the campers. The counselor is only there to provide a jumping off point, and make sure everyone who wants to gets a turn to speak. We've had kids leave at the end of the week who were still atheist/agnostic.[footnote]Sometimes their parents that send them against their will. We only try to make it as positive an experience as we can.[/footnote] It's their choice. The main point is to give them the information, and let them decide.
The rest of the day is spent doing normal camp stuff.

Honestly, the only thing we "indoctrinate" kids into is environmentalism. There's a lot of 'tree huggers,' myself included, who work there. One of our big initiatives is teaching kids about the ecosystem, biology, etc., so they gain a bigger appreciation for the environment.

But I really don't see how that's harmful.

 

[LunaSocks]

I believe it should be up to the kid the moment he decides he doesn't want to be a christian, or a baptist, or whatever else. If they say 'no' to the religion, and the parent has to scream 'yes' while throwing threats (you will burn in the fire of hell if you don't go, you won't be granted eternal life if you don't go) while dragging you to the place of "worship", that's not called being religious, that's called being a bigot.