Bethesda (Makers of such hits as Oblivion and Fallout 3) Says That WRPG's Are More Realistic Than JR

[tofulove]

Weird hair, almost always white and spiky, weapons are swords with guns bigger than the actual characters wielding them.

Already addressed swords and hair and as for guns explain this.

they use to make muskets very long because they did not have rifling, the longer the tube the more acurate the shot, they would have fort muskets with barrels that would be far taller than a human.

Again people

Spoiler

The swords in Jrg's are reasonable

swords that large in European warfare were mainly used to counter pikemen if i remember correctly.

 

[Extragorey]

I'd have to agree with Todd Howard on this one.

When he says that western games are more "realistic", though, he's not referring to the overall premise; he's refering to the style or vein in which the game was developed.
[Generalisation alert.]
For JRPGs, most of the ones I've seen are really "out there" with the fantasy elements, and they don't try to hide it. It's like, "Here's this epicly random world full of weird and wacky things, now play the game in it." They accept that their premise is, well, crazy.
For western RPGs, the majority of them could actually happen... Maybe. Post-apocalyptic, sure. Zombie virus, sure I guess. Faster-Than-Light travel with various alien species discovered... Perhaps. Even the fantasy RPGs (let's say, Oblivion) seem to have a believable medieval setting with magic thrown in.

The settings are sometimes just as crazy, but you often get the feeling "if the world had all these things, this is what it'd probably be like."

So I guess that's what Todd Howard is trying to say. I suppose you could replace "realistic" with "believable" to better understand his meaning.

EDIT: Also, actual events in JRPGs seem mostly unrealistic. People get hit and live way too often. But western RPGs aren't much better.

 

[FallenMessiah88]

Who cares? Realism is overrated anyway I would much rather have a game be "fun" than "realistic". Thats not to say that there is anything wrong with a game being realistic or that I don't enjoy realistic games, because I do. However, there is such a thing as suspension of disbelief and it seems like almost everyone in both the games industry and the gaming community have forgotten that.

 

[Paularius]

Again people

The swords in Jrg's are reasonable

Wow, Seriously?

Firstly the pic of the old man holding that sword is either a fake or its just a hollowed aluminium sword replica. Infact if you look at the picture of the old man you can see what he's holding is a bright and shiny aluminium replica compared to the dull steel sword thats on the display stand.

Secondly the sword in the second pic is a claymore which was a slow swinging two handed sword that needed alot of strength to get the momentum required to do damage.
Not swinging them around fast and one handed as if they were made of aluminium while jumping around the place like your in an aerobics competition hoping for a gold medal as is pretty much standard in all Jrpgs when it comes to sword combat.

So yes. Wrpg's are more realistic than Jrpgs in a lot of aspects. Thats not to say there life like and infact pretty much dont have alot thats at all realistic with magic and such. But what they do have is more realistic than Jrpgs.

And frankly i dont understand why your so pissed off about Bethesda making this claim. It seems alot of people understand where there coming from but you just refuse to even look at it from there point of view.

 

[Annoying Turd]

There are no realistic games, unless you call those realistic f1 simluators (used by the drivers to practice) games.

However, the interviewee is probably not speaking about 'realism' in common terms; he's most likely referring to how traditional western RPGs incorporate more mundane elements into their settings whereas traditional eastern rpgs feature richer fantasy.

Nothing wrong with those facts, tbh, so I don't understand why people are so upset.

 

[JourneyThroughHell]

It's not the "realistic" thing in the way you guys have decided to interpret it. It's the "suspension of disbelief" thing. Howard is saying that WRPGs make it easier for the player to suspend their disbelief, which might be true, might not be, but is a perfectly reasonable stance to take.

Unlike the stance of "HOW DARE YOU, TODD HOWARD, YOU HATER". Cut that out.

 

[GrimHeaper]

Again people

The swords in Jrg's are reasonable

Not swinging them around fast and one handed as if they were made of aluminium while jumping around the place like your in an aerobics competition hoping for a gold medal as is pretty much standard in all Jrpgs when it comes to sword combat.

You missed the second sword that isn't a claymore at all must not have registered for you and again you are wrong.. oh you can't count sorry yeah the sword on the display stand is real and bigger than clouds sword. But density and balance matter more than anything don't hate on a mythical metal.

And claymores only weigh 7 pounds at most people could one hand that easily what you are thinking of is leverage (two hands)which a 200pound sword would give plenty of along with momentum.

Talking and standing still is the standard not that FF you all keep thinking of.
WRPGs are still based on RPG mechanics until they stop using them and therefore cease being RPGs then they are not anymore realistic than JRPGs.
Pixels bro they are swing around pixels.
It's realistic in it's own setting you don't even know who cloud is.
Screw your realism finger squish

 

[Royta]

I point my finger at Demon's Souls, a game that gets the Western Medival style down better then any western developer. Oh the irony. Pair that with a realistic combat system (apart from magic, but the elderscrolls has this too) and they don't know what they are talking about.

Sure, JRPG's (like, the Tales, FF, etc) aren't realistic. But that's like saying Disney's Mickey Mouse isn't realistic but Christopher Nolan's Batman is. They're two totally different genre's of styles with different audiences.

 

[Pyro Paul]

the point is that Western RPGs provide a better immersive experience that sets the player As the protaganist and very much so sets a world which 'feels' how it should behave. it is More realistic because it is 'you' feeling it.

JRPGs on the other hand usually present a much better story experience (in most cases) as the player simply guides the merry group of protaganists from plot point to plot point. it is less realistic because you're watching others feel it.

 

[Thimblefoot]

Bleh, are they really arguing realism between "fantasy" games. What the fuck is the point of that?

I love you Bethesda, but seriously. Stop it.

 

[Lacsapix]

no one has eyes that big...
so I agree with bethesda(in many more points then I mentioned above).

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Fallout isn't fantasy, it's science fiction.

Fantasy as a genre is all about the "fantastic". We take an otherwise mundane setting (even if it does have interesting geography or politics, that's not what I mean by mundane) and add a super-natural twist. Deities, magic, cults, rebellions are all part of the landscape. You also usually find common tropes such as evil overlords, swords and an adventure.

To enjoy a fantasy adventure there must therefore be suspended disbelief. The audience has to accept that magic and monsters exist. To say either is "realistic" therefore isn't really accurate. However to say one is "more realistic" than the other (ie. closer to reality) can be and in the case of the OP, I would agree, in general.

On the basis that if you removed the fantastic elements from the fantasy, leaving just the characters and the world they inhabit, it is most certainly a more realistic world that could exist (and in the case of medevil fantasy towns, actually did). I think part of the main difference is a cultural one. JRPGs tend to be how they are because of the japanese culture and mindset. Cuteness, children saving the world, swords the size of buildings, giant robots and so on. Western fantasy tends to involve chainmail, elves, dwarves, dungeons and dragons.

 

[AlternatePFG]

Why does it matter if it's more realistic? Doesn't mean it's automatically better.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

It's all fantasy anyway. There are more-realistic and less-realistic RPG experiences on both sides of the fence. JRPGS have stuff like Persona, Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, Fire Emblem and these semi-realistic near future or distant past fantasy scenarios, then you've got your Deus Ex and Fallout games on the western side. It's fantasy either way, and the individual games decide how realistic or not realistic they are. Even as a general rule, I don't feel comfortable suggesting that western RPGs are "more realistic" than japanese ones, because I don't really even know what that means.

"This fantasy sequence is slightly closer to a possible reality as I interpret it?" That statement is so personalized and subjective as to be essentially invisible. It means nothing. Just like there is "realistic" anime, there are plenty of "realistic-ish" rpgs on the japanese front.

As for western RPGs being more immersive, play Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, Final Fantasy Tactics, Chrono Trigger and Persona 3, then tell me how uninvolved you were in those titles. We seem to be arguing "realism" as if it stands for "quality," but forgetting that if we ARE really talking about quality, realism does not matter. A good game is good and will involve the player no matter what kind of game it is or how realistic it may be. This applies to western and japanese rpgs. There are great western rpgs, and great jrpgs. And I've been thoroughly immersed in both and found realistic elements in both. And plenty of fantasy, too.

It's not the "realistic" thing in the way you guys have decided to interpret it. It's the "suspension of disbelief" thing. Howard is saying that WRPGs make it easier for the player to suspend their disbelief, which might be true, might not be, but is a perfectly reasonable stance to take.

Unlike the stance of "HOW DARE YOU, TODD HOWARD, YOU HATER". Cut that out.

I would say that's more an issue of quality. A higher-quality gaming experience will make it easy for the player to suspend his or her disbelief. JRPGs do seem to be in a bit of a slump lately, so maybe gamers are looking at FF13 and deciding that it sucking is endemic of some larger problems with jrpgs which may not really be there.

 

[pyrokin]

Your badges state that you've watched Zero Punctuation. It's just as Yahtzee said, "It's like they were thrown into a fashion store and exploded in there." Well, at least something along those lines.

 

[Jake Martinez]

I don't know about "Realistic" (After all, we're talking about fantasy here people), but I would say that generally speaking western RPG's are better written, with better character development, plots and also (although this is trending downward) game mechanics.

There is a major issue with Japanese pop-culture (otaku culture specifically) where it is stuck in this perpetual phase of adolesence. Someone else in this thread said they were enthralled with the notion of youth (as evidenced by the enormous amount of anime/manga which are generally coming of age stories) and I think that you're pretty much correct about this.

I don't think that japanese studios are incapable of making games that resonate with adults, in fact I think that there is wide acceptance in the japanese game industry that they need to move in that direction and emulate western developers more in these terms. You've got game designers like Kieji Inafune claiming that the japanese game industry is "finished" and high fliers like SQUEENIX exec Kouji Taguchi publicly stating that the only reason they've managed to save face recently is by acquiring Edios for games like the upcoming Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

I think these guys know what the score is. They realize that what they were producing 10, 20 years ago, was really good for 10 and 20 years ago, but doesn't quite cut the mustard today when the audience is in general wider, not dominated by otaku's and ultimately more sophisticated in their tastes.

I'd even go so far as to say that the same creative stagnation that we are seeing in japanese gaming is based on a wider stagnation of all things "okatu", as just like japanese games, japanese anime and manga have been in a slow decline in both sales and popularity over the last few years. All three things are very closely tied together in terms of who's making them at these japanese companies, who they are making them for, and the content of what they are making.

Contrast that against wester companies that are known for employing professional writers from outside the industry, or game designers who have backgrounds in other industries, or even at the producers and creative directors of these gaming companies that are treating their game properties much like a movie studio would treat a film property.

Depending on how you look at it, the gaming "nerds" that run and work for these western developers have either "sold out" or "grown up". But in either case, it's obvious that they're pushing the content into areas that the japanese aren't prepared (or currently capable of perhaps) to go to.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

This
compared to this
Sounds about right.