Biden clenches the nomination.

[Saelune]

Remember 2016? Remember having this exact same conversation with me about how Hilary wasn't going to win, about how she had stolen the nomination from Bernie? About how Trump was going to win? Anyone remember those days? Anyone remember how it turned out, who ended up being right and who ended up being less than right? I can't be the only one with deja vu right now. Or maybe I'm just stuck in a temporal causality loop until I can get people to stop letting Trump win.

Remember when Bernie ran as a Democrat, and then after losing, still voted for the Democratic nominee?

Anyone who does not vote for Biden cannot claim to be a Bernie supporter. Bernie is not stupid, and he understands that slow progress is better than no progress.

Because of Obama people think our medical issues were sorted out, when in fact the number of people going bankrupt due to out of control medical costs didn't decrease at all.

ACA didn't really fix anything, and that's his single "greatest" accomplishment as president. I think the only unambiguously good thing I can say about him is he legalized gay marriage. Otherwise he was a disappointing failure who did more harm than good.

ACA was supposed to be the start of the fix, not the end of it. But then we got Trump and he undid everything and then gave us worse than we had before Obama.

With bernie out of the election, I'll probably vote for trump. He seems like the most competent option at the moment. I was impressed with how he handled the situation in Iran, and he's reacted well to the corona crisis. He's also avoided further conflict in the middle east, unlike Bush, who seemed to crave it. From a humanitarian perspective, he's the lesser of two evils, and I have to vote with my conscience.

Anyone who will vote for Trump never actually agreed with Bernie.

You're Fox12, right? Rather be certain than not.

 

[fOx]

Remember when Bernie ran as a Democrat, and then after losing, still voted for the Democratic nominee?

Anyone who does not vote for Biden cannot claim to be a Bernie supporter. Bernie is not stupid, and he understands that slow progress is better than no progress.


ACA was supposed to be the start of the fix, not the end of it. But then we got Trump and he undid everything and then gave us worse than we had before Obama.


Anyone who will vote for Trump never actually agreed with Bernie.

You're Fox12, right? Rather be certain than not.

nope. typically go by fox, or fox mccloud

 

[fOx]

Remember when Bernie ran as a Democrat, and then after losing, still voted for the Democratic nominee?

Anyone who does not vote for Biden cannot claim to be a Bernie supporter. Bernie is not stupid, and he understands that slow progress is better than no progress.


ACA was supposed to be the start of the fix, not the end of it. But then we got Trump and he undid everything and then gave us worse than we had before Obama.


Anyone who will vote for Trump never actually agreed with Bernie.

You're Fox12, right? Rather be certain than not.

Also not sure why you say that. I liked bernie best, and a lot of other candidates. Yang was good. So was warren. But i can't stand establishment candidates.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

ACA was supposed to be the start of the fix, not the end of it. But then we got Trump and he undid everything and then gave us worse than we had before Obama.

He passed it when he held all the cards, and it was such a tepid mess that it didn't fix anything. It wasn't the start of a fix, it was a moneypot for pharmaceutical companies.

 

[fOx]

He passed it when he held all the cards, and it was such a tepid mess that it didn't fix anything. It wasn't the start of a fix, it was a moneypot for pharmaceutical companies.

if it was the start of the fix, then the others candidates wouldn't have stood against medicare for all. that showed us where their loyalties lie.

UpFront | Video | Al Jazeera

Through rigorous debate, Marc Lamont Hill and Redi Tlhabi cut through the headlines to challenge conventional wisdom.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Saelune]

Also not sure why you say that. I liked bernie best, and a lot of other candidates. Yang was good. So was warren. But i can't stand establishment candidates.

Trump is the establishment. He is exactly what Republicans have been for the last 60 years come to fruition. And Trump is supremely bigoted and incompetent.

He passed it when he held all the cards, and it was such a tepid mess that it didn't fix anything. It wasn't the start of a fix, it was a moneypot for pharmaceutical companies.

As opposed to what we have now? It was better than we what we had, which was a moneypot for pharmaceutical companies and a death sentence for anyone without tons of money.

Real change takes time and not burning everything down the second it does not work perfect the first time. Imagine if the Wright Brothers (inventor of the plane) gave up after the first try?

 

[fOx]

It is not a coincidence that the people who think Biden is

Trump is the establishment. He is exactly what Republicans have been for the last 60 years come to fruition. And Trump is supremely bigoted and incompetent.


As opposed to what we have now? It was better than we what we had, which was a moneypot for pharmaceutical companies and a death sentence for anyone without tons of money.

Real change takes time and not burning everything down the second it does not work perfect the first time. Imagine if the Wright Brothers (inventor of the plane) gave up after the first try?

I agree with zizek. Trump is what we need to shake up the democratic party and see real change. The actual problems surrounding our country were around before trump, and will be around after trump. Surely the best thing we can do is try to adopt a course that will ultimately address the actual problems.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

It is not a coincidence that the people who think Biden is

Trump is the establishment. He is exactly what Republicans have been for the last 60 years come to fruition. And Trump is supremely bigoted and incompetent.


As opposed to what we have now? It was better than we what we had, which was a moneypot for pharmaceutical companies and a death sentence for anyone without tons of money.

Real change takes time and not burning everything down the second it does not work perfect the first time. Imagine if the Wright Brothers (inventor of the plane) gave up after the first try?

It still is a death sentence for anyone without tons of money, that was the point of the link I posted. It actually did nothing to help people who got sick. It just erased the cost of day to day medicine from people's eyes so you don't notice when drugs spike 1000% in price as often as it happens.

 

[Saelune]

I agree with zizek. Trump is what we need to shake up the democratic party and see real change. The actual problems surrounding our country were around before trump, and will be around after trump. Surely the best thing we can do is try to adopt a course that will ultimately address the actual problems.

Anyone who can look at what Trump has done these last 4 years and think that is ok is not someone I can ever hope to reach.

 

[Saelune]

It still is a death sentence for anyone without tons of money, that was the point of the link I posted. It actually did nothing to help people who got sick. It just erased the cost of day to day medicine from people's eyes so you don't notice when drugs spike 1000% in price as often as it happens.

It helped me. I literally avoided a hospital bill of many thousands of dollars cause of Obama. And your do nothing mentality just leaves us in the exact situation you are supposedly criticizing.

ACA was the start. Future administrations should then take ACA and improve on it, fix its failings, improve its strengths, it is called progress, it is called iteration. Ending slavery did not bring about racial harmony, and we ended up with Jim Crow and segregation, but it was still better than having slavery! Things take time, less if we stop throwing everything out when it does not overnight solve everything!

 

[fOx]

Anyone who can look at what Trump has done these last 4 years and think that is ok is not someone I can ever hope to reach.

To be fair, I don't see much of a difference between him and Bush. He's fairly bog standard for republicans.

But if the democrats keep seeing their establishment candidates lose, maybe we can get them to adopt real policies for change, like medical care for all, free college, an end to student loan debt, ect. Policies that will never be passed by Biden. Policies that could actually help people. That's what I hope for, anyway.

 

[fOx]

It still is a death sentence for anyone without tons of money, that was the point of the link I posted. It actually did nothing to help people who got sick. It just erased the cost of day to day medicine from people's eyes so you don't notice when drugs spike 1000% in price as often as it happens.

I agree. I saw just as many people get hurt by the bill, as it helped. It didn't solve the actualy problem of inflated medical costs.

 

[Saelune]

To be fair, I don't see much of a difference between him and Bush. He's fairly bog standard for republicans.

But if the democrats keep seeing their establishment candidates lose, maybe we can get them to adopt real policies for change, like medical care for all, free college, an end to student loan debt, ect. Policies that will never be passed by Biden. Policies that could actually help people. That's what I hope for, anyway.

Thats like thinking the only way to prevent forest fires is to burn down the whole forest.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

It helped me. I literally avoided a hospital bill of many thousands of dollars cause of Obama. And your do nothing mentality just leaves us in the exact situation you are supposedly criticizing.

ACA was the start. Future administrations should then take ACA and improve on it, fix its failings, improve its strengths, it is called progress, it is called iteration. Ending slavery did not bring about racial harmony, and we ended up with Jim Crow and segregation, but it was still better than having slavery! Things take time, less if we stop throwing everything out when it does not overnight solve everything!

Neat. But anecdotes aren't evidence. Statistically, ACA did nothing. It's a failed policy.

 

[fOx]

Thats like thinking the only way to prevent forest fires is to burn down the whole forest.

well, as long as we're using the metaphor, controlled fires are used to stop larger fires

 

[Saelune]

Neat. But anecdotes aren't evidence. Statistically, ACA did nothing. It's a failed policy.

Nothing ever works perfect after one try. You refuse to try again.

well, as long as we're using the metaphor, controlled fires are used to stop larger fires

Trump is not a controlled fire.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Nothing ever works perfect after one try. You refuse to try again.

If it did something maybe, but it literally did nothing. It is an actual sidegrade to what we had before.

 

[SilentPony]

SNIP

A vote for Biden over Bernie is a vote for Trump. Biden is simply admitting Democrats don't know how to beat Trump, and supporting Biden is simply supporting 4 more years of Trump. They are one and the same.

 

[Saelune]

If it did something maybe, but it literally did nothing. It is an actual sidegrade to what we had before.

It did something, you just don't like that what it did was help people like me, so you ignore that it did anything at all and suggest we instead do nothing and let the terrible version we have now persist instead.

A vote for Biden over Bernie is a vote for Trump. Biden is simply admitting Democrats don't know how to beat Trump, and supporting Biden is simply supporting 4 more years of Trump. They are one and the same.

If you dont support Bernie, just admit it. You refuse to listen to him, you refuse to vote alongside him, clearly you do not support Bernie Sanders. You don't have to, just stop lying about it.

 

[Saelune]

Anyways, to finish that thought left unfinished, it is no coincidence that the people who think Biden is worse than Trump are Trump supporters.