Biden clenches the nomination.

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SupahEwok

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I feel that.

2016 was the best chance we had for third parties and the most popular one only got 3% of the popular vote; if they had gotten at least 5%, it would have qualified the Libertarian party for FEC funding...

Feels bad man
I don't feel like there's even a good third party to throw votes or money to, they're either issue parties like the Green party or a bunch of neckbeard basement dwellers who want their weed farms legalized and to be able to hunt people on their property for violating the NAP, like the Libertarians.

Feels bad man
 

Thaluikhain

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At this rate I'll accept the death of the Democrat party. Because they seem too stupid to realize how hard they're making things for themselves.
What's the alternative though? There's any number of flaws with the party, but it's the only remotely viable to the Republicans at the moment.

Or of course that they don't care if Trump wins because to the heads of the DNC, Trump is better than Sanders.
While this is not exactly the same as believing Trump is better than Biden (or Clinton), it's not a million miles away either. Hell, Sanders gave his support for Biden.
 

crimson5pheonix

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What's the alternative though? There's any number of flaws with the party, but it's the only remotely viable to the Republicans at the moment.



While this is not exactly the same as believing Trump is better than Biden (or Clinton), it's not a million miles away either. Hell, Sanders gave his support for Biden.
They're not really an alternative to the Republicans though, Biden in particular. While he's not Trump, he is a Republican. Like, that's his brand, he bills himself as a DINO conservative Democrat.

If that's who they want to lead their party they won't get my vote. I don't vote against my self interests.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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The silver lining here is that, from a leftist perspective, it's preferrable to have Biden lose to Trump than Sanders. And I strongly believe both would have lost, being the sitting president simply puts Trump at an advantage.

Biden losing will mean (another) failure for the conservative wing of the Democratic Party and a surge in popularity for leftist opposition. Bernie seemed like a decent guy, but long term change in America will come down to people who are younger, more radical and farther to the left. The Democrats will need to have a long, hard look at themselves and decide whether they want to welcome that demographic and reinvent themselves as a workers party or live out the rest of their days as controlled opposition until fading into complete irrelevance.
 

Fat Hippo

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I don't feel like there's even a good third party to throw votes or money to, they're either issue parties like the Green party or a bunch of neckbeard basement dwellers who want their weed farms legalized and to be able to hunt people on their property for violating the NAP, like the Libertarians.

Feels bad man
I think that until a party receives some kind of actual representation in the legislative, it's very hard to break out of being some form of "issue" party like the Green party in the states. Green parties in Europe, once they actually garnered some moderate influence, developed a more robust party profile, with stances on all the important issues, just like any other party with a sufficient profile. Of course I'd welcome it if the American Green party gained some traction and developed into an actually electable, moderately progressive alternative to the existing, sadly degenerated components of the two-party system, but I currently find it difficult to imagine that future actually taking place.
 

Thaluikhain

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They're not really an alternative to the Republicans though, Biden in particular. While he's not Trump, he is a Republican. Like, that's his brand, he bills himself as a DINO conservative Democrat.

If that's who they want to lead their party they won't get my vote. I don't vote against my self interests.
Unless he's every bit as bad as the Republicans, instead of only almost as bad, it's still in your interests that he wins, though. Far all his (and the Dems in general) many failings, he's still not that bad.
 

crimson5pheonix

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it's still in your interests that he wins, though.
No it isn't. It explicitly isn't. I gain nothing by voting for Biden. While there is an argument to be made that I lose more if Trump wins, I don't gain anything by voting for Biden. And voting for something that you know will hurt you, under threat of hurting you more if you don't is how the Dems let the clown in in the first place.
 

Elfgore

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No it isn't. It explicitly isn't. I gain nothing by voting for Biden. While there is an argument to be made that I lose more if Trump wins, I don't gain anything by voting for Biden. And voting for something that you know will hurt you, under threat of hurting you more if you don't is how the Dems let the clown in in the first place.
You gain the potential to not have a conservative supreme court for who knows how long. I know you want progress, I do as well. It ain't going to happen overnight short of a revolution. To instead just cast your vote away is incredibly short-sighted in my mind and potentially damning this entire country.
 

crimson5pheonix

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You gain the potential to not have a conservative supreme court for who knows how long. I know you want progress, I do as well. It ain't going to happen overnight short of a revolution. To instead just cast your vote away is incredibly short-sighted in my mind and potentially damning this entire country.
Biden's already let through conservative judges and sunk Anita Hill before. He doesn't like Roe v Wade. I honestly don't think he's protection against a conservative judge.
 

Thaluikhain

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While there is an argument to be made that I lose more if Trump wins, I don't gain anything by voting for Biden.
Whilst those aren't the same, I'm not seeing a massive difference between the two.

And voting for something that you know will hurt you, under threat of hurting you more if you don't is how the Dems let the clown in in the first place.
So...4 more years of Trump then, that's the plan? Biden in power won't fix everything by any means. Trump in power again won't fix anything. You don't get your choice of candidate next time just because you fail to support the candidate this time.

Now, personally, I think Clinton would have made a good PotUS, in the same way that Obama was. Maybe a bit better. Wouldn't fix everything, but wander along in the correct general direction and avoid any major disasters.

But whatever you think of Clinton, she would have been much better than Trump. If enough more people had voted for her, the US (and, indeed, the world) would simply be a much better place to live in. If enough people vote for Biden that he beats Trump (assuming votes still matter), the US (and, indeed, the world) would simply be a much better place to live in than if Trump wins.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Have the stupid debate we are having here in video form.
 

crimson5pheonix

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Whilst those aren't the same, I'm not seeing a massive difference between the two.



So...4 more years of Trump then, that's the plan? Biden in power won't fix everything by any means. Trump in power again won't fix anything. You don't get your choice of candidate next time just because you fail to support the candidate this time.

Now, personally, I think Clinton would have made a good PotUS, in the same way that Obama was. Maybe a bit better. Wouldn't fix everything, but wander along in the correct general direction and avoid any major disasters.

But whatever you think of Clinton, she would have been much better than Trump. If enough more people had voted for her, the US (and, indeed, the world) would simply be a much better place to live in. If enough people vote for Biden that he beats Trump (assuming votes still matter), the US (and, indeed, the world) would simply be a much better place to live in than if Trump wins.
Putting Biden in won't fix anything, just like putting Clinton in wouldn't have fixed anything. Obama barely even fixed anything (and made so many things so much worse) and he was to the left (marginally) than these 2. That's the problem. No matter what, if Trump or Biden wins, we go right. We've gone right for decades because the democrats are a right wing party. And whether they win or lose, they go right. I'm not voting for a right wing candidate.

That's what I mean by I don't gain anything by voting for Biden. I literally gain nothing. We can say climate change won't be accelerated as fast with Biden, but nothing will be fixed. We can say ACA will be preserved, but ACA is a right wing policy designed to put people into debt with private companies. I don't want this, I want something and Biden provides nothing. And any current left leaning platform ideas he might have are completely undermined by his voting record and actions for decades. Along with what he tells his big donors during this election cycle.
 

Saelune

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Biden has the same chance of beating Trump that Hilary did. None.
Corporate Democrats just threw the election away again. Makes you wonder if they think its better for Trump to win than risk Bernie winning.
Hillary got more votes. And that was when no one liked her and Trump had not dragged this country though right-wing Hell.

Trump has only made enemies.
 

Thaluikhain

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Hillary got more votes. And that was when no one liked her and Trump had not dragged this country though right-wing Hell.

Trump has only made enemies.
OTOH, Clinton would have made a better PotUS than Biden, and the Republicans have been given exciting new opportunities for voter suppression. I'd like to think more people in the US would realise that stopping Trump be PotUS is sorta important, but not got my fingers crossed.
 

Saelune

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OTOH, Clinton would have made a better PotUS than Biden, and the Republicans have been given exciting new opportunities for voter suppression. I'd like to think more people in the US would realise that stopping Trump be PotUS is sorta important, but not got my fingers crossed.
Biden is a man and I do not doubt for one second that won't net him a ton more votes that were too sexist to go to Hillary. I am actually pretty confident Biden will get noticeably more votes than Hillary did. Not saying the Presidency won't be stolen again, but if so, it will be due to corruption.

I think a good chunk of people have learned the lessons of 2016 and will make the right choice this time. That said, the more the better.

Do not mistake this for me not being scared shitless that things won't just get worse though. I have no idea what the final outcome of this election will really be.
 
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SilentPony

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Hillary got more votes. And that was when no one liked her and Trump had not dragged this country though right-wing Hell.

Trump has only made enemies.
We've been over this Saelune. Votes are not how you win, Electoral College is. Hate is as much as you want, that's how you win. The team that wins the world series is based on the team that wins the most games, not that team that gets the most runs over all 9 games. So to the Presidency.
Hilary won the most votes. Great. Did she win the election? No. You can win a billion votes in New York, but if you lose the other 49 states you still lose.
So to Biden. He will lose. He may get the most votes, he may not, but he'll certainly lose the College and that will be that.
 
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crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
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I'm not 100% sure, but pretty sure that that's fake.
That you can't tell if it's real or not is the most telling part, because that is basically the Dem strategy with him. "Don't think about him, just know that he's a lovable goof, because that's what America needs right now!"
 

Saelune

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We've been over this Saelune. Votes are not how you win, Electoral College is. Hate is as much as you want, that's how you win. The team that wins the world series is based on the team that wins the most games, not that team that gets the most runs over all 9 games. So to the Presidency.
Hilary won the most votes. Great. Did she win the election? No. You can win a billion votes in New York, but if you lose the other 49 states you still lose.
So to Biden. He will lose. He may get the most votes, he may not, but he'll certainly lose the College and that will be that.
If you want to claim that Biden won't become President, go ahead, but do not use misinformation and faulty math to do it.

If Bernie is the only one who can beat Trump, then why could he not beat Biden?
 
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