Biden clenches the nomination.

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

I invoke the immortal science of Marxist-Leninism to remind you people that historical materialism and dialectical materialism are the only true practices in this mire of ideological bullshit you call a democracy. Your petty squabbles over varieties of market-fascism and bureaucratic revisionist socialism mean nothing before the ever turning wheel of history that is eternally greased by those who hold true to the historical necessity. Hakim, take the wheel:
Dengoids and Trotskyoids need not apply

 

[09philj]

I invoke the immortal science of Marxist-Leninism to remind you people that historical materialism and dialectical materialism are the only true practices in this mire of ideological bullshit you call a democracy. Your petty squabbles over varieties of market-fascism and bureaucratic revisionist socialism mean nothing before the ever turning wheel of history that is eternally greased by those who hold true to the historical necessity. Hakim, take the wheel:
Dengoids and Trotskyoids need not apply

You'll never be free of the bourgeouise. They might go by different names, rule by different methods, but they'll always be there. The only choice is between being a ruler or one who is ruled over.

 

[fOx]

Well, im not crazy about voting for a senile, corporatist sex offender, so I think we all know who the obvious choice is.

 

[Neuromancer]

Well, im not crazy about voting for a senile, corporatist sex offender, so I think we all know who the obvious choice is.

I see what you did there.

 

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

You'll never be free of the bourgeouise. They might go by different names, rule by different methods, but they'll always be there. The only choice is between being a ruler or one who is ruled over.

Ok social democrat, I'm sure you and your kautskyan ilk are enjoying the fruits of Friedrich Ebert and your Proudhonist onanism

 

[SupahEwok]

 

[Latif]

I invoke the immortal science of Marxist-Leninism to remind you people that historical materialism and dialectical materialism are the only true practices in this mire of ideological bullshit you call a democracy. Your petty squabbles over varieties of market-fascism and bureaucratic revisionist socialism mean nothing before the ever turning wheel of history that is eternally greased by those who hold true to the historical necessity. Hakim, take the wheel:
Dengoids and Trotskyoids need not apply

Well worded, brother. And comrade Hakim indeed delivers yet again. I would go to Baghdad, but I must maintain social distancing like a good Iraqi citizen. Drone strikes be damned.

 

[09philj]

Ok social democrat, I'm sure you and your kautskyan ilk are enjoying the fruits of Friedrich Ebert and your Proudhonist onanism

I'm a socialist, but more of an ethical socialist of the British radical tradition. I also think almost any sufficiently society will produce some kind of political class which will exert control over the people. Under capitalist liberal democracy, it is those with the money to influence policy. Under a dictatorship, it is the dictator and those who submit policy to the dictator. Under a system preferring more participatory government, it is the policy writers and campaigners. What separates the latter from the first two is that it actually shows some respect for the working class, something that was wholly absent from Leninism in practice.

 

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

I'm a socialist, but more of an ethical socialist of the British radical tradition. I also think almost any sufficiently society will produce some kind of political class which will exert control over the people. Under capitalist liberal democracy, it is those with the money to influence policy. Under a dictatorship, it is the dictator and those who submit policy to the dictator. Under a system preferring more participatory government, it is the policy writers and campaigners. What separates the latter from the first two is that it actually shows some respect for the working class, something that was wholly absent from Leninism in practice.

'Ethical socialist of the british radical tradition' means nothing more than parliamentarianism at best and Fabianism at worst. There is no tradition in what you speak of, unless you are making Trotskyist apologia like the SWP in your vainglorious crusade against the vanguard of the CPGB-ML. Away with you, Dubcek!

 

[09philj]

'Ethical socialist of the british radical tradition' means nothing more than parliamentarianism at best and Fabianism at worst. There is no tradition in what you speak of, unless you are making Trotskyist apologia like the SWP in your vainglorious crusade against the vanguard of the CPGB-ML. Away with you, Dubcek!

My ideals have their roots in Jeremy Bentham's moral philosophy, and their translation to an anticapitalist context by people like Robert Owen (And John Stuart Mill's theoretical work, except not racist).

 

[SupahEwok]

Wasn't Bentham the one with the All Seeing Eye of Sauron prison complex?

 

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

My ideals have their roots in Jeremy Bentham's moral philosophy, and their translation to an anticapitalist context by people like Robert Owen (And John Stuart Mill's theoretical work, except not racist).

Both of which are unsurprisingly more reactionary than Adam Smith and have their ideological correspondents in the right wing as the Blairites of the Labour Party. This socialism spits on the tradition of Arthur Scargill, the Luddites, Peterloo and William Morris.

Wasn't Bentham the one with the All Seeing Eye of Sauron prison complex?

Like from the mouth of babes, a fellow Foucault scholar I see. It was indeed him that designed the panopticon under the premise of necessary unfreedoms like the monarchoid he was.

 

[09philj]

Wasn't Bentham the one with the All Seeing Eye of Sauron prison complex?

Yes. I like his work on ethics, but Bentham was a fucking maniac. Apart from designing the panopticon, he also allegedly invented underpants, had a pet teapot called Dickie, wanted to fill his garden with preserved corpses, and after he died had his body embalmed and put on display in University College London.

Both of which are unsurprisingly more reactionary than Adam Smith and have their ideological correspondents in the right wing as the Blairites of the Labour Party. This socialism spits on the tradition of Arthur Scargill, the Luddites, Peterloo and William Morris.

Arthur Scargill was a Stalinist and the worst possible leader the miners could have asked for when dealing with Thatcher.

Back on topic, it's clear that progressive politics aren't going to have much luck at the national level in the US, and the electoral system is not friendly to third parties. However, it's highly devolved state governments and local governments provide ample opportunity to make changes at lower levels, to say nothing of the possibilities afforded by alternative arrangements such as trade unions and worker and consumer co-operatives... provided they don't get carpet bagged.

 

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

Yes. I like his work on ethics, but Bentham was a fucking maniac. Apart from designing the panopticon, he also allegedly invented underpants, had a pet teapot called Dickie, wanted to fill his garden with preserved corpses, and after he died had his body embalmed and put on display in University College London.


Arthur Scargill was a Stalinist and the worst possible leader the miners could have asked for when dealing with Thatcher.

Back on topic, it's clear that progressive politics aren't going to have much luck at the national level in the US, and the electoral system is not friendly to third parties. However, it's highly devolved state governments and local governments provide ample opportunity to make changes at lower levels, to say nothing of the possibilities afforded by alternative arrangements such as trade unions and worker and consumer co-operatives... provided they don't get carpet bagged.

How can you call yourself a socialist whilst subscribing to 'national level progressive politics'? How can you call Arthur Scargill a Stalinist whilst espousing British trade unionism, as a substitute to what, the RMT? Because he was more militant than most and was willing to put the money where his mouth is? How can you in any conscience think that worker cooperatives provide any solution to capitalism other than just making working conditoins marginally more tolerable whilst submitting the worker to the violence of markets and the alienation of labour? I smell Fabian in these utterances from a mile off

 

[09philj]

How can you call yourself a socialist whilst subscribing to 'national level progressive politics'? How can you call Arthur Scargill a Stalinist whilst espousing British trade unionism, as a substitute to what, the RMT? Because he was more militant than most and was willing to put the money where his mouth is? How can you in any conscience think that worker cooperatives provide any solution to capitalism other than just making working conditoins marginally more tolerable whilst submitting the worker to the violence of markets and the alienation of labour? I smell Fabian in these utterances from a mile off

I can call Arthur Scargill a Stalinist because he was a fucking Stalinist. He thought Solidarity were anti-soviet counter revolutionaries. He was fucking useless. His inflexibility destroyed huge swathes of England, parts where I'm fucking from. He let Thatcher bait him into a fight he could never win and they walked away with nothing but shattered communities. He played right into the *****'s hands.

I'm in favour of worker cooperatives because I think workers should usually be entitled to a fare share of the value generated by their labour, and be able to work conditions they set themselves, not in the grinding gears of the capitalist or Leninist economic machines. The division of labour, which is necessary for economic efficiency and quality of production, will inevitably lead to increased specialisation that results in individual workers contributing to only small parts of production, but as part of a meaningful unit of workers they can identify with the alienation will be decreased.

 

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

I can call Arthur Scargill a Stalinist because he was a fucking Stalinist. He thought Solidarity were anti-soviet counter revolutionaries. He was fucking useless. His inflexibility destroyed huge swathes of England, parts where I'm fucking from. He let Thatcher bait him into a fight he could never win and they walked away with nothing but shattered communities. He played right into the *****'s hands.

I'm in favour of worker cooperatives because I think workers should usually be entitled to a fare share of the value generated by their labour, and be able to work conditions they set themselves, not in the grinding gears of the capitalist or Leninist economic machines. The division of labour, which is necessary for economic efficiency and quality of production, will inevitably lead to increased specialisation that results in individual workers contributing to only small parts of production, but as part of a meaningful unit of workers they can identify with the alienation will be decreased.

One can see a nationalist trade union as being a reactionary because they were nationalists. I think Poland's current state of affairs, its own holocaust revionisionism and proto-fascistic tendencies are very evidently the culmination of a long road unimpeded by any sort of criticism of nationalism. If you blame his stance for not budging to a neoliberal protofascist ghoul like Thatcher then you've conceded and decided to blame a man who was the last frontier between the state of privatised England now and the prosperity of communities of yore. You will find few friends in the North that aren't alienated Brexit voters.

You said you don't believe in a Leninist mode of production yet you described Lenin's praise of Fordism. You played yourself, except you still subscribe to Proudhonist mutualism as if it's an eventuality under some form of revisionism like a Xinpingist. You also evidently don't understand the goals of socialism since if you think it amounts to streamlining the economy with wage parity and labour laws then you can move to China where you will be right at home.

 

[SilentPony]

Can I have a show of hands who is actually surprised by this?

I'm not, I'm just disappointed he didnt wait until at least the convention to get some stipulations. This far from it Bernie practically admitted it was never about change or making the world a better place, but beating Trump. Which Biden can't do. So Bernie made the deal he'll give up his ideals and surrender his voters, in exchange Biden will lose the election and Corporate Democrats will be just fine.

 

[SupahEwok]

I'm not, I'm just disappointed he didnt wait until at least the convention to get some stipulations. This far from it Bernie practically admitted it was never about change or making the world a better place, but beating Trump. Which Biden can't do. So Bernie made the deal he'll give up his ideals and surrender his voters, in exchange Biden will lose the election and Corporate Democrats will be just fine.

Nah, he tried that last time, remember? And got 4 years of being blamed for Hillary losing cuz he didn't let the party unify soon enough. He probably just doesn't want to go through that again.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I'm not, I'm just disappointed he didnt wait until at least the convention to get some stipulations. This far from it Bernie practically admitted it was never about change or making the world a better place, but beating Trump. Which Biden can't do. So Bernie made the deal he'll give up his ideals and surrender his voters, in exchange Biden will lose the election and Corporate Democrats will be just fine.

I don't know if I'd go that far. I don't necessarily agree with Bernie here, but he is the consummate nice guy who would rather work with Democrats to be better.

He's wrong of course because even if he does get concessions out of them, they'll just ignore those concessions, but still.


In other news

 

[SilentPony]

SNIP

The reason it feels like Bernie got nothing is because Biden stands against just about everything Bernie does.
Bernie says universal healthcare, Biden says no,
Bernie says the 1% should pay more taxes, Biden says no.
Bernie says end the war on drugs and the wars in the Middle East, Biden says no.
Bernie wants to cancel student debt, Biden says no.
Bernie wants to legalize pot, Biden says no.
Bernie wants to end Citizens United, Biden says no.

The only things I can find they agree on are abortion rights and gun control, and that's shit every Democrat is already onboard for. So Bernie gave up his supporters to Biden on the carrot that Biden will give them 2 things he was already going to give them.

and that's not even counting Biden's sketchy past as a democrat in name only and the assault allegations.