This gets to the heart of my problem: that so frequently cops decide that what the situation merits is a summary execution.
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Absolutely. Even assuming that the suspect actually is a threat (which may or may not be the case), unless they are pointing a gun at someone, they police have the option of standing way back and yelling at them with a megaphone the entire day. Sure, people will complain they are too wimpy or whatever, but that method works.
The police also have the option of clearing house and getting murderers out of their institution as well, of course.
Particularly in this day and age where there are multiple (mostly, barring a freak occurrence) nonlethal methods of taking someone out, including at range. If the guy doesn't have a gun, the police shouldn't be using a gun against them.
What if the person in question has a knife/bat/hammer and is actively trying to murder someone else? Should the cops use less lethal methods?
Yes, because I don't believe the state should be in the business of executing people.
And you would be fine if an innocent third party is brutally murdered because a taser, pepper spray or the cop saying “stop” didn’t make the assailant stop?
You would just shrug your shoulders and say “Oh well, they tried. Shame about the victim, but at least the murderer wasn’t executed”?
I really don't give a shit about cliched what-if scenarios, I care about what's going on in reality. And the reality is that cops do not make us any safer when they're this unregulated and corrupt. Giving them the impunity to murder whoever they want for any reason they feel like is not the solution.
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How often does this happen outside of cop-worshipping fantasy tv shows?
Plus, it's actually a lot harder and takes much longer to kill someone with a knife/bat/hammer than TV would have you believe. A cop would have a few minutes to save someone being killed using any other method other than a gun in all but the most incredibly unlucky murder attempts. While a gun would be a near instantaneous death and much more threatening to everyone involved than a knife/bat/hammer.
Besides, even a crack shot cop in such a scenario is going to have to get right up to someone to actually hit them with a pistol reliably and not end up hitting the intended victim instead. At that point there's little reason not to use the nonlethal methods like a taser, not only to stop the criminal but to ensure the victim isn't hurt by the very officer trying to save them.
Only if the criminal is using a gun is a gun a appropriate response. On top of that maybe if officers were trained to use nonlethal methods first and foremost we wouldn't have so many incidents of officers killing people because they're carrying a wallet/phone/etc.
Breaking: Police fatally shoot knife-wielding man
A police officer fatally shot a knife-wielding assault suspect Sunday afternoon in west Baltimore, police said. Baltimore Police Commissioner Michael Harrison said the officer was called around 3:39 p.m. to the intersection of Lafayette and Fulton avenues, where a man was armed with a knife...
Police fatally shoot knife-wielding suspect inside shopping mall
A knife-wielding man at a Los Angeles shopping mall was shot and killed by authorities Tuesday night, according to police and witnesses.
abcnews.go.com
Ma'Khia Bryant was shot 4 times by officer, autopsy shows | CNN
Ma'Khia Bryant, a Black teenager fatally shot by a Columbus, Ohio, police officer after she charged someone with a knife in April, was shot four times in the incident, an autopsy report from the Franklin County coroner's office shows.
www.cnn.com
That’s from a little bit of looking and ignoring incidents where the cops were attacked with a non-firearm weapon.
It happens.
Cool stories. Why does this give police the right to murder people with impunity?It happened in Baltimore last monthBreaking: Police fatally shoot knife-wielding man
A police officer fatally shot a knife-wielding assault suspect Sunday afternoon in west Baltimore, police said. Baltimore Police Commissioner Michael Harrison said the officer was called around 3:39 p.m. to the intersection of Lafayette and Fulton avenues, where a man was armed with a knife...news.yahoo.com
Knife wielding man charged onlookers in LA 2018Police fatally shoot knife-wielding suspect inside shopping mall
A knife-wielding man at a Los Angeles shopping mall was shot and killed by authorities Tuesday night, according to police and witnesses.
It happened in Ohio last yearMa'Khia Bryant was shot 4 times by officer, autopsy shows | CNN
Ma'Khia Bryant, a Black teenager fatally shot by a Columbus, Ohio, police officer after she charged someone with a knife in April, was shot four times in the incident, an autopsy report from the Franklin County coroner's office shows.
That’s from a little bit of looking and ignoring incidents where the cops were attacked with a non-firearm weapon.
It happens.
Lmao, pretty sure I can find more than one incident a year where a cop blasts some random dude away for no reason. Besides, with the amount of "training" we give our cops, are they incapable in disarming a knife wielding attacker with their taser, baton, pepper spray, etc?It happened in Baltimore last monthBreaking: Police fatally shoot knife-wielding man
A police officer fatally shot a knife-wielding assault suspect Sunday afternoon in west Baltimore, police said. Baltimore Police Commissioner Michael Harrison said the officer was called around 3:39 p.m. to the intersection of Lafayette and Fulton avenues, where a man was armed with a knife...
Knife wielding man charged onlookers in LA 2018Police fatally shoot knife-wielding suspect inside shopping mall
A knife-wielding man at a Los Angeles shopping mall was shot and killed by authorities Tuesday night, according to police and witnesses.
It happened in Ohio last yearMa'Khia Bryant was shot 4 times by officer, autopsy shows | CNN
Ma'Khia Bryant, a Black teenager fatally shot by a Columbus, Ohio, police officer after she charged someone with a knife in April, was shot four times in the incident, an autopsy report from the Franklin County coroner's office shows.
That’s from a little bit of looking and ignoring incidents where the cops were attacked with a non-firearm weapon.
It happens.
I see how it is now.
You have decided that every single time a cop shoots someone, regardless of circumstance, it is murder and nothing will ever change that. Arguing further is pointless.
More accurately, I have decided that I don't trust cops with the power over life and death because they have routinely proven themselves too irresponsible to handle it. If you want to simp for them, go ahead. Just don't act surprised when people disagree.
You were asked how often it happens, not 'if it really happens'.It happened in Baltimore last monthBreaking: Police fatally shoot knife-wielding man
A police officer fatally shot a knife-wielding assault suspect Sunday afternoon in west Baltimore, police said. Baltimore Police Commissioner Michael Harrison said the officer was called around 3:39 p.m. to the intersection of Lafayette and Fulton avenues, where a man was armed with a knife...
Knife wielding man charged onlookers in LA 2018Police fatally shoot knife-wielding suspect inside shopping mall
A knife-wielding man at a Los Angeles shopping mall was shot and killed by authorities Tuesday night, according to police and witnesses.
It happened in Ohio last yearMa'Khia Bryant was shot 4 times by officer, autopsy shows | CNN
Ma'Khia Bryant, a Black teenager fatally shot by a Columbus, Ohio, police officer after she charged someone with a knife in April, was shot four times in the incident, an autopsy report from the Franklin County coroner's office shows.
That’s from a little bit of looking and ignoring incidents where the cops were attacked with a non-firearm weapon.
It happens.
As such your answer seems to be 3 times in 4 years, or less than once a year. In which case the original question about should cops be risking the lives of others by using less lethal options comes out to a very strong yes.
You are bad at this, whichever conservative tagged you in to be the latest devil's advocate should tag you out.
No, you don't, at least in my case. My point is that unless the criminal is using a gun themselves, cops using a gun against a criminal is a massively disproportionate response and there is zero reason the police can't use a nonlethal method instead. In fact, even regarding a criminal with a gun there's still options for the police to subdue them without firing a shot.
The police should be trained to use nonlethal methods whenever possible first and foremost in the vast majority of cases. Shooting someone should NEVER be a police officer's first resort in nearly any situation. Maybe it's not technically murder for a cop to shoot some say knife wielding criminal but it's definitely far out of proportion to the threat that criminal poses at best and they definitely had other ways to take out the threat just as easily and quickly as with a gun without killing anyone.
There are circumstances where a cop shooting someone is justified but it is very rare and definitely nowhere near as often as it actually happens. The fact that you're going with this all or nothing attitude makes it clear you don't actually care that there are other options that police have nor that said options are effective.
You have decided that every single time a cop shoots someone, regardless of circumstance, it is never murder and nothing will ever change that.
See? I can do that strawman B.S. rather than putting an actual argument forth or even acknowledging that there is an argument too. What you're doing is putting forth this all or nothing attitude with no attempt at considering that maybe, just maybe, cops shooting someone has little to no justification in the vast majority of cases but there are actually a small number of cases where it is justified. The idea that it's not all the way one way or the other and it's actually very lopsided one direction but not entirely that way is not something you are willing to accept or acknowledge. This is because that would require you to actually look at something objectively.
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What if the police shoot and kill an innocent person when using their weapons?
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Texas Police Officer Accidentally Killed Woman While Trying to Shoot at Dog
Former police officer Ravinder Singh shot 30-year-old Margarita Brooks to death during a welfare check in August 2019
They face charges of negligent homicide like the cop in the story you linked.What if the police shoot and kill an innocent person when using their weapons?
Texas Police Officer Accidentally Killed Woman While Trying to Shoot at Dog
Former police officer Ravinder Singh shot 30-year-old Margarita Brooks to death during a welfare check in August 2019people.com
Or they face charges of reckless endangerment, or manslaughter depending on what they did wrong.
Does that make the innocent person any less dead?
Hmm. Doesn't seem to be functioning very well as a deterrent.