Bioware: FF13 is not an RPG

[Rayansaki]

Saying FFXIII isn't an RPG because it lacks one of the popular features in RECENT RPG's is like saying Mass Effect is an interactive graphic novel because it features one of the genre's defining features. Good going Erickson.

But it isn't. Dragon Warrior 1&2 allowed me to change the name of the hero I controlled. Therefore, with that simple step, I assumed control of that character and played the role of that character. That simple step made it an RPG. In an RPG you don't just play the role of a character, you ARE the character. In FF XIII you aren't the characters, you hardly control them outside of moving and fighting. FF XIII is not an RPG because of this. Just because a game has a level up system and an inventory system doesn't make it an RPG.

So, because you character is called Fagballs instead of Cloud, the game is suddenly an RPG? Because I identified a lot more with, say, Lightning than with my Fagballs Sheppard.

 

[Baconmonster723]

To be fair neither is Mass Effect. Mass Effect 2 is a JRPG in disguise.

What's not an RPG about Mass Effect (bar the combat)?

It's a controversial statement, right? I knew that. Especially with the amount of Bioware fans on these forums. But if anyone from Bioware can trash another game to promote their own (game style) than i can say something too and perhaps make people think about what the hell both of us are talking about. Since when is Bioware's definition of choice and creating a character a hallmark of RPG's anyway? And what's this nonsense about living your characters?

I wanted Shepard to have a gay romance with that Jacob guy. But no. Bioware decided that it doesn't fit into their vision of Shepard. So there's your choice. In the end its all about Bioware and not player choice. So it's really unfair to trash another game on that basis.

So you expect them to create a perfectly liveable world that you can go to in escape of the real world? You are comparing apples to oranges. I couldn't do one small thing that I wanted to in a game, therefore, the game is the same as another game with a glaring lack of something that by definition is the hallmark of an RPG. Your logic is dumbfounding and just shows that you are only here to nitpick a tiny thing Bioware shunned you on.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

Saying FFXIII isn't an RPG because it lacks one of the popular features in RECENT RPG's is like saying Mass Effect is an interactive graphic novel because it features one of the genre's defining features. Good going Erickson.

Way to fail at logic.

What you're saying is this:

- All RPGs have [certain features].
- Final Fantasy does not have [certain features].
- Final Fantasy is not an RPG.

To far, so good. But the second half of your post contains a deductive fallacy:

- All interactive novels have [certain features].
- Mass Effect has [certain features].
- Mass Effect is a graphic novel.

The reason this is a fallacy is that, while interactive novels all have these features, there's nothing saying that these features are exclusive to graphic novels. If you said that only graphic novels have these features your reasoning would be correct, but we all know that making choices that affect the story isn't an exclusive feature to any genre.

 

[Asophetes]

Saying FFXIII isn't an RPG because it lacks one of the popular features in RECENT RPG's is like saying Mass Effect is an interactive graphic novel because it features one of the genre's defining features. Good going Erickson.

But the point of his statement is that in an RPG, your playing YOUR character. Ever since TableTop RPGs, RPG's have been about story and giving the player a place in the world. In a tabletop game, you create a character and play the story where you can decide what to do. Although FF13 does have RPG elements, it does not count as an RPG in his eyes because your not playing a role, your just a puppeteer working the strings.

 

[LeonLethality]

Wow, I though it was just Bioware fans who bashed on JRPGs. Turns out Bioware employees do too? *sigh*

He is wrong, WRPGs do not fit the full definition of RPG so if JRPGs don't then neither do they.

It isn't really bashing, as he said nothing about the quality of the game, it's really just semantics. But FFXIII is more faithful to "classic" RPG titles that defined the genre than, say, Mass Effect, and he only says that because he is looking at RPGs by how western RPGs evolved.

I suppose I said bashing because I hear so many people who bash on JRPGs (quality included) say that they are not even real RPGs. My JRPG defense systems went right up as soon as I heard that.

 

[Nikajo]

I think because it's part of the final fantasy series it's automatically labelled as an RPG, but this has to be the least RPG-like RPG that I've ever played. Kinda disappointing really.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Does it have stats and levels as a focus point of combat? It does? Congrats. It's an RPG.

Bioware, Dragon Age IS an RPG.

But Mass Effect 2 is a third person shooter. Your level hardly matters, and you get few skill points.

Mass Effect 1 is an RPG, barely, because, well, it was more stat-focused. Barely. You actually had damage numbers on equipment.

 

[Dexiro]

The definition for RPG is pretty vague. I don't think FF13 is strictly not an RPG, but it's definatly leaning more towards adventure game.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

I totally agree. FF13 is no more a RPG than Halo.

I never thought i'd ever hear somthing SO IDIOTC! in my entire life. like my god man are you gamer at all? It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. --Mark Twain

In stead of throwing around insults, why not try to disprove the statement?

Crazy idea, I know. But you might want to give it a try.

 

[Rayansaki]

Saying FFXIII isn't an RPG because it lacks one of the popular features in RECENT RPG's is like saying Mass Effect is an interactive graphic novel because it features one of the genre's defining features. Good going Erickson.

Way to fail at logic.

What you're saying is this:

- All RPGs have [certain features].
- Final Fantasy does not have [certain features].
- Final Fantasy is not an RPG.

To far, so good. But the second half of your post contains a deductive fallacy:

- All interactive novels have [certain features].
- Mass Effect has [certain features].
- Mass Effect is a graphic novel.

The reason this is a fallacy is that, while interactive novels all have these features, there's nothing saying that these features are exclusive to graphic novels. If you said that only[/I] graphic novels have these features your reasoning would be correct, but we all know that making choices that affect the story isn't an exclusive feature to any genre.

But it isn't only RPG's that have said features. There are plenty of games that use inventories (RE), levling (Borderlands), specialization (Borderlands), etc. that I wouldn't call RPG.

And not all RPG's have the "ALL RPGs HAVE THOSE FEATURES" features, because there is no feature that is included by every single RPG, so you logic uses false premises.

 

[Baconmonster723]

Saying FFXIII isn't an RPG because it lacks one of the popular features in RECENT RPG's is like saying Mass Effect is an interactive graphic novel because it features one of the genre's defining features. Good going Erickson.

But it isn't. Dragon Warrior 1&2 allowed me to change the name of the hero I controlled. Therefore, with that simple step, I assumed control of that character and played the role of that character. That simple step made it an RPG. In an RPG you don't just play the role of a character, you ARE the character. In FF XIII you aren't the characters, you hardly control them outside of moving and fighting. FF XIII is not an RPG because of this. Just because a game has a level up system and an inventory system doesn't make it an RPG.

So, because you character is called Fagballs instead of Cloud, the game is suddenly an RPG?

First off, this isn't debating whether FF VII is an RPG. This is debating whether FF XIII is an RPG. So don't compare two subjects that don't apply.

To answer your question, not specifically. For example. In Mass Effect you are Commander Shepard. You may choose his/her name but that may not change the fact that you are Commander Shepard to everyone you meet. The fact of the matter is you ARE the character. You don't control the character. You ARE the character. All you do is control a character in FF XIII. You don't fill the character's role, you simply control them from point a to point b.

 

[archvile93]

I don't know. I respect Bioware and the games they make (I love Mass Effect), but that seems kind of egotistical. Games like Final Fantasy have been considered RPGs due to various class choices and sat rasing since the 1980s. What made them suddenly not RPGs?

 

[Nomanslander]

To be fair neither is Mass Effect. Mass Effect 2 is a JRPG in disguise.

What's not an RPG about Mass Effect (bar the combat)?

Any person can come up with his/her own definitions, but ME2 at least wasn't your traditional RPG.

It's pretty much Gears of War mixed in with a hefty sum of unskippable dialogue that had no gameplay aspect, I mean the conversation system is the closest feature to an RPG but its mostly about whether you want your Shepard to be a dick or not, and that's it.

In the end I prefer ME more than most JRPGS today, but I won't be kidding myself when I start to think whether or not ME is an RPG anymore....because it really isn't...=/

 

[reg42]

It is. He is wrong. It's a JRPG, which have always been different than the WRPG. I love Bioware, but c'mon, this is just stirring the pot.

 

[Baconmonster723]

Does it have stats and levels as a focus point of combat? It does? Congrats. It's an RPG.

Bioware, Dragon Age IS an RPG.

But Mass Effect is a third person shooter. You're level hardly matters, and you get few skill points.

So Borderlands is an RPG then?

 

[Legion IV]

I totally agree. FF13 is no more a RPG than Halo.

I never thought i'd ever hear somthing SO IDIOTC! in my entire life. like my god man are you gamer at all? It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. --Mark Twain

In stead of throwing around insults, why not try to disprove the statement?

Crazy idea, I know. But you might want to give it a try.

Ok. You assume the roles of predefined characters they have intresting personalities (all my oppinion) but that dosent matter you assume the roles of 6 characters you level up get stronger get new weapons so you can more effectivly kill things and level up. theres stats items accesorrys you can buy and sell shit. FF13 is more of an RPG then mass effect is. All my oppinion just like how it's biowares oppinion.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Does it have stats and levels as a focus point of combat? It does? Congrats. It's an RPG.

Bioware, Dragon Age IS an RPG.

But Mass Effect is a third person shooter. You're level hardly matters, and you get few skill points.

So Borderlands is an RPG then?

Yes, actually. Your level and equipment play a big role in combat. 2-3 levels make a huge difference in that game, with the giant icons saying "Don't even try to kill this!" It's an RPG in the vein of Diablo.