Bioware forums explode as Mass Effect 3 ending details are leaked. *MINOR SPOILERS*

[JeanLuc761]

-snip0-

I'm right there with you, friend. Mass Effect 3 was GOTY material, heralding hte end of the greatest trilogy I've ever played. And they not only fucked up ME3 in the last 5 minutes, but they destroyed the entire 80 hour trilogy.

...how do you do that?

 

[Acton Hank]

As I posted in another thread

"I loved the endings because they actually make sense with the story.

The Mass Relays and The Citadel were devices built by The Reapers to impose technological and social limits and force civilization down the path the Reapers chose, which is to say a dead end one.

While destroying the Mass Relays sets the galaxy back thousands of years it also free galactic civilization from never ending enslavement.

Leaving the Mass Relays would only means civilization continued to be slaves, and would stagnate one they hit the end of the Reapers path. But what is WORSE about it is that at that point they would now be willing slaves to a slave master who is no longer alive.

Post mass relay civilization now has a chance to go down the path that they choose for themselves instead of the Reapers path, the unfortunate problem is that civilization as it was, was already to far down The Reapers path to be fixed, it had to be destroyed."[/quote

As I posted in another thread

"I loved the endings because they actually make sense with the story.

The Mass Relays and The Citadel were devices built by The Reapers to impose technological and social limits and force civilization down the path the Reapers chose, which is to say a dead end one.

While destroying the Mass Relays sets the galaxy back thousands of years it also free galactic civilization from never ending enslavement.

Leaving the Mass Relays would only means civilization continued to be slaves, and would stagnate one they hit the end of the Reapers path. But what is WORSE about it is that at that point they would now be willing slaves to a slave master who is no longer alive.

Post mass relay civilization now has a chance to go down the path that they choose for themselves instead of the Reapers path, the unfortunate problem is that civilization as it was, was already to far down The Reapers path to be fixed, it had to be destroyed."

Like I said, even if you choose to look at the ending that way, it's still shit, there's no sense of closure and it leaves you with a million questions. What the fuck happened to joker and the Normandy crew? What happens to all the alien fleets who are now stuck in the sol system with no way back to their home planet? What happenes if you control the reapers? Do they go out back into dark space? How do they do that without the citadel? If you destroy the reapers wouldn't organics examine them for their technological mysteries? How does galactic civilization get back on it's feet? What's the point of surviving the destroy ending if most techonolgy is destroyed? How is controlling the reapers or destroying them or synthesis any different from any other besides a simple change in the color of a light beam?

WHY the fuck does shepard say nothing when the catalyst says that activating the crucible will destroy the Mass Relays? I remember the last time a relay was destroyed it took out a whole system, so what makes this any different? Bioware is gonna get a lot of shit for this ending, believe me. What's the point of letting you make all those decisions if it was gonna end in a way as pointless as this?

 

[Acton Hank]

because 'saving the frickin' galaxy from an armada thought completely unstoppable, that had previously wiped out the most advanced races know to time with great ease' doesn't satisfy you?

Except you didn't save the galaxy, even with the 'synthesis' ending if you take the little fuckwit's interpretation of the actions synthetic life will always take at face value. Remember, the Citadel and Reapers originated in THIS galaxy. They never came from or went anywhere else. However, at 20% of lightspeed synthetic life forms could easily cross between galaxies. Which means that NO MATTER WHAT ENDING YOU CHOOSE, sooner or later an extragalactic armada of synthetics from the Andromeda galaxy is going to slaughter everything in the Milky Way.

I didn't even bring up what doesn't make sense about the Normandy being stranded on an unknown planet, if the shockwave from the Cruible only affects the reapers (As shown in the destroy ending where the soilders raise their hands in the sky) why was the Normandy affected? Why did joker suddenly try to escape at FTl speed when he was in the middle of a battle? Why are Garrus and Liara in the normandy when they were with me right up until I reached the beam that took me to the Citadel? Can anyone explain this to me?!

I mean face it, everywhere I go people either hate it or they dislike it.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Like I said, even if you choose to look at the ending that way, it's still shit, there's no sense of closure and it leaves you with a million questions. What the fuck happened to joker and the Normandy crew? What happens to all the alien fleets who are now stuck in the sol system with no way back to their home planet? What happenes if you control the reapers? Do they go out back into dark space? How do they do that without the citadel? If you destroy the reapers wouldn't organics examine them for their technological mysteries? How does galactic civilization get back on it's feet? What's the point of surviving the destroy ending if most techonolgy is destroyed? How is controlling the reapers or destroying them or synthesis any different from any other besides a simple change in the color of a light beam?

WHY the fuck does shepard say nothing when the catalyst says that activating the crucible will destroy the Mass Relays? I remember the last time a relay was destroyed it took out a whole system, so what makes this any different? Bioware is gonna get a lot of shit for this ending, believe me. What's the point of letting you make all those decisions if it was gonna end in a way as pointless as this?

If you don't understand what the difference is between a fully powered relay blowing up and one that's completely drained of energy blowing up then.............. I dont know what to say.

also how is getting to choose what races live or die, or are eternally cursed with a plauge negating ALL your decision?

I swear you using so much hyperbole its almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion.

 

[Nimcha]

It's so sad. The ending makes perfect sense if you step back and think about everything.

I get that people are made they didn't get the ending they want, but extrapolating that on the ending there is, is counterproductive.

 

[Kahunaburger]

It's so sad. The ending makes perfect sense if you step back and think about everything.

I get that people are made they didn't get the ending they want, but extrapolating that on the ending there is, is counterproductive.

No matter how much you step back, the green space magic that turns machines into biological lifeforms and biological lifeforms into machines doesn't make sense. That's even stupider than the Asari, and that's saying something.

 

[Nimcha]

It's so sad. The ending makes perfect sense if you step back and think about everything.

I get that people are made they didn't get the ending they want, but extrapolating that on the ending there is, is counterproductive.

No matter how much you step back, the green space magic that turns machines into biological lifeforms and biological lifeforms into machines doesn't make sense. That's even stupider than the Asari, and that's saying something.

You mean, the same technology applied by the Reapers in every single ME game so far? Amplified by the Crucible AND the Catalyst?

Yeah, I guess to some people that doesn't make sense. I don't think that's the game's fault.

 

[Kahunaburger]

It's so sad. The ending makes perfect sense if you step back and think about everything.

I get that people are made they didn't get the ending they want, but extrapolating that on the ending there is, is counterproductive.

No matter how much you step back, the green space magic that turns machines into biological lifeforms and biological lifeforms into machines doesn't make sense. That's even stupider than the Asari, and that's saying something.

You mean, the same technology applied by the Reapers in every single ME game so far? Amplified by the Crucible AND the Catalyst?

Yeah, I guess to some people that doesn't make sense. I don't think that's the game's fault.

It's technology in the same way that Q summoning a mariachi band is technology. Green space radiation that travels faster than light, recognizes the difference between an organic and synthetic form of life, reconfigures a design that is viable in one form into a design that is viable in the other form (including turning silicon to carbon and carbon to silicon as necessary) everywhere at once can reasonably be called "space magic." It works that way because the plot says so.

 

[Nimcha]

It's so sad. The ending makes perfect sense if you step back and think about everything.

I get that people are made they didn't get the ending they want, but extrapolating that on the ending there is, is counterproductive.

No matter how much you step back, the green space magic that turns machines into biological lifeforms and biological lifeforms into machines doesn't make sense. That's even stupider than the Asari, and that's saying something.

You mean, the same technology applied by the Reapers in every single ME game so far? Amplified by the Crucible AND the Catalyst?

Yeah, I guess to some people that doesn't make sense. I don't think that's the game's fault.

It's technology in the same way that Q summoning a mariachi band is technology. Green space radiation that travels faster than light, recognizes the difference between an organic and synthetic form of life, reconfigures a design that is viable in one form into a design that is viable in the other form (including turning silicon to carbon and carbon to silicon as necessary) everywhere at once can reasonably be called "space magic." It works that way because the plot says so.

Then the Mass Effect universe is simply not for you. I've already explained why none of that is implausible in the universe. You offer no rebuttal but saying you think it's 'space magic'.

If you don't like the ME universe there's nothing I can do. But don't try to undermine it with hyperboles and by relativating everything to death.

 

[Kahunaburger]

It's so sad. The ending makes perfect sense if you step back and think about everything.

I get that people are made they didn't get the ending they want, but extrapolating that on the ending there is, is counterproductive.

No matter how much you step back, the green space magic that turns machines into biological lifeforms and biological lifeforms into machines doesn't make sense. That's even stupider than the Asari, and that's saying something.

You mean, the same technology applied by the Reapers in every single ME game so far? Amplified by the Crucible AND the Catalyst?

Yeah, I guess to some people that doesn't make sense. I don't think that's the game's fault.

It's technology in the same way that Q summoning a mariachi band is technology. Green space radiation that travels faster than light, recognizes the difference between an organic and synthetic form of life, reconfigures a design that is viable in one form into a design that is viable in the other form (including turning silicon to carbon and carbon to silicon as necessary) everywhere at once can reasonably be called "space magic." It works that way because the plot says so.

Then the Mass Effect universe is simply not for you. I've already explained why none of that is implausible in the universe. You offer no rebuttal but saying you think it's 'space magic'.

If you don't like the ME universe there's nothing I can do. But don't try to undermine it with hyperboles and by relativating everything to death.

Well, then allow me to "relativate."

The space magic thing is not a hyperbole. In order for something like that to function, it would need to A) transfer incredibly complex information (like how to turn literally any possible organic or technological life-form into a hybrid without violating conservation of energy or significantly altering the life-form's ability to function) over interstellar distances and B) somehow act at those distances in a fashion complex enough to carry out the instructions that information. A is improbable, B is impossible. So yeah, space magic. Maybe it would fly in a Final Fantasy game, but Mass Effect is a series that at least has some pretensions to being actual science fiction.

 

[Acton Hank]

Like I said, even if you choose to look at the ending that way, it's still shit, there's no sense of closure and it leaves you with a million questions. What the fuck happened to joker and the Normandy crew? What happens to all the alien fleets who are now stuck in the sol system with no way back to their home planet? What happenes if you control the reapers? Do they go out back into dark space? How do they do that without the citadel? If you destroy the reapers wouldn't organics examine them for their technological mysteries? How does galactic civilization get back on it's feet? What's the point of surviving the destroy ending if most techonolgy is destroyed? How is controlling the reapers or destroying them or synthesis any different from any other besides a simple change in the color of a light beam?

WHY the fuck does shepard say nothing when the catalyst says that activating the crucible will destroy the Mass Relays? I remember the last time a relay was destroyed it took out a whole system, so what makes this any different? Bioware is gonna get a lot of shit for this ending, believe me. What's the point of letting you make all those decisions if it was gonna end in a way as pointless as this?

If you don't understand what the difference is between a fully powered relay blowing up and one that's completely drained of energy blowing up then.............. I dont know what to say.

also how is getting to choose what races live or die, or are eternally cursed with a plauge negating ALL your decision?

I swear you using so much hyperbole its almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion.

You want to talk about reasonable discussions with me?
If you look at your post again you'll probably realise that you didn't anwser any of my questions and you aren't making any good points.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Well, then allow me to "relativate."

The space magic thing is not a hyperbole. In order for something like that to function, it would need to A) transfer incredibly complex information (like how to turn literally any possible organic or technological life-form into a hybrid without violating conservation of energy or significantly altering the life-form's ability to function) over interstellar distances and B) somehow act at those distances in a fashion complex enough to carry out the instructions that information. A is improbable, B is impossible. So yeah, space magic. Maybe it would fly in a Final Fantasy game, but Mass Effect is a series that at least has some pretensions to being actual science fiction.

Yes because there is no such thing as being so scientifically advanced one can alter the laws of physics, ohh wait, thats been in every sci-fi series like ever.

Just becuase it doesn't 100% adhere to the laws of our universe, which Mass effect NEVER did, doesn't make it space magic.

and yes the term space magic is hyperbole.

You want to talk about reasonable discussions with me?
If you look at your post again you'll probably realise that you didn't anwser any of my questions and you aren't making any good points.

I answered you question, just not in a way you liked, which is to say not in a way that only consists of hating on bioware.

 

[veloper]

It's so sad. The ending makes perfect sense if you step back and think about everything.

I get that people are made they didn't get the ending they want, but extrapolating that on the ending there is, is counterproductive.

No matter how much you step back, the green space magic that turns machines into biological lifeforms and biological lifeforms into machines doesn't make sense. That's even stupider than the Asari, and that's saying something.

You mean, the same technology applied by the Reapers in every single ME game so far? Amplified by the Crucible AND the Catalyst?

Yeah, I guess to some people that doesn't make sense. I don't think that's the game's fault.

It's technology in the same way that Q summoning a mariachi band is technology. Green space radiation that travels faster than light, recognizes the difference between an organic and synthetic form of life, reconfigures a design that is viable in one form into a design that is viable in the other form (including turning silicon to carbon and carbon to silicon as necessary) everywhere at once can reasonably be called "space magic." It works that way because the plot says so.

Then the Mass Effect universe is simply not for you. I've already explained why none of that is implausible in the universe. You offer no rebuttal but saying you think it's 'space magic'.

If you don't like the ME universe there's nothing I can do. But don't try to undermine it with hyperboles and by relativating everything to death.

Well, then allow me to "relativate."

The space magic thing is not a hyperbole. In order for something like that to function, it would need to A) transfer incredibly complex information (like how to turn literally any possible organic or technological life-form into a hybrid without violating conservation of energy or significantly altering the life-form's ability to function) over interstellar distances and B) somehow act at those distances in a fashion complex enough to carry out the instructions that information. A is improbable, B is impossible. So yeah, space magic. Maybe it would fly in a Final Fantasy game, but Mass Effect is a series that at least has some pretensions to being actual science fiction.

What's even worse is that if the reapers can have devices like that, then there's no need to bother with the reaper ships, the guns, the ground troops and everything else.
If you can control every organic molecule in the entire galaxy on a precise and subatomic level with a device you already made and could build more of besides, then you don't make war, you just magic everything how you like it.

 

[Nimcha]

It's so sad. The ending makes perfect sense if you step back and think about everything.

I get that people are made they didn't get the ending they want, but extrapolating that on the ending there is, is counterproductive.

No matter how much you step back, the green space magic that turns machines into biological lifeforms and biological lifeforms into machines doesn't make sense. That's even stupider than the Asari, and that's saying something.

You mean, the same technology applied by the Reapers in every single ME game so far? Amplified by the Crucible AND the Catalyst?

Yeah, I guess to some people that doesn't make sense. I don't think that's the game's fault.

It's technology in the same way that Q summoning a mariachi band is technology. Green space radiation that travels faster than light, recognizes the difference between an organic and synthetic form of life, reconfigures a design that is viable in one form into a design that is viable in the other form (including turning silicon to carbon and carbon to silicon as necessary) everywhere at once can reasonably be called "space magic." It works that way because the plot says so.

Then the Mass Effect universe is simply not for you. I've already explained why none of that is implausible in the universe. You offer no rebuttal but saying you think it's 'space magic'.

If you don't like the ME universe there's nothing I can do. But don't try to undermine it with hyperboles and by relativating everything to death.

Well, then allow me to "relativate."

The space magic thing is not a hyperbole. In order for something like that to function, it would need to A) transfer incredibly complex information (like how to turn literally any possible organic or technological life-form into a hybrid without violating conservation of energy or significantly altering the life-form's ability to function) over interstellar distances and B) somehow act at those distances in a fashion complex enough to carry out the instructions that information. A is improbable, B is impossible. So yeah, space magic. Maybe it would fly in a Final Fantasy game, but Mass Effect is a series that at least has some pretensions to being actual science fiction.

Sigh. You just don't want to see it. It's fine, you know. Denial is easy.

The relays can transfer matter without it breaking up into pieces. They can do that without breaking so much as a sweat. If they can do that, any amount of just information is absolutely no problem at all. Or any amount of tech capable of doing that. Especially since, as I've already pointed out, they were amplified by the Crucible+Catalyst.

There are different kinds of science fiction. There's 'hard', which basically means no faster than light travel. There's already that in Mass Effect, so it definitely doesn't fall into that category. It's 'soft' science fiction, and sending that kind of technology through the relays is absolutely no problem at all in this universe, if you actually look and see what else is possible.

 

[Acton Hank]

Well, then allow me to "relativate."

The space magic thing is not a hyperbole. In order for something like that to function, it would need to A) transfer incredibly complex information (like how to turn literally any possible organic or technological life-form into a hybrid without violating conservation of energy or significantly altering the life-form's ability to function) over interstellar distances and B) somehow act at those distances in a fashion complex enough to carry out the instructions that information. A is improbable, B is impossible. So yeah, space magic. Maybe it would fly in a Final Fantasy game, but Mass Effect is a series that at least has some pretensions to being actual science fiction.

Yes because there is no such thing as being so scientifically advanced one can alter the laws of physics, ohh wait, thats been in every sci-fi series like ever.

Just becuase it doesn't 100% adhere to the laws of our universe, which Mass effect NEVER did, doesn't make it space magic.

and yes the term space magic is hyperbole.

You want to talk about reasonable discussions with me?
If you look at your post again you'll probably realise that you didn't anwser any of my questions and you aren't making any good points.

I answered you question, just not in a way you liked, which is to say not in a way that only consists of hating on bioware.

No you did not,

And even if all your points had any merit to them, it's a simple fact that whatever ending they tried to convey was very poorly executed.

I could accept the ending you're saying this is, if it gave some sense of closure, If I knew what the the consequences of the final choice were, if it gave me a sense that everything I did up til now was worth something, which it doesn't.

But hey if you got what you wanted then more power to you.

It's a fact that most people agree that the ending is unsatisfying and depressing, and I seriously doubt that Bioware planned to end the trilogy in a depressing and unsatisfying way when they started Mass Effect 8 years ago.

 

[Nimcha]

And even if all your points had any merit to them, it's a simple fact that whatever ending they tried to convey was very poorly executed.

Looking at all the confusion, I can say this is partly true. A lot of people don't seem to be able to get the ending the way Bioware intended. This is indeed a flaw, I think we can agree on that part.

However, it's not as bad as some other people are trying to convey here. The ending makes sense, you just have to think about it a little and pay attention to what has happened before and to the general theme of the series. If Bioware hasn't made those things clear enough for a large number of people, they have made an error in the storytelling. That doesn't mean it ruins the game or the series, though.

 

[Kahunaburger]

@above: technically, anything that isn't hard SF is space magic to a certain extent. But there's a difference between changing a law of physics to make the story work and writing things in your universe that are not only impossible under our concept of physics but also under ..any physics we can conceive of. One gives you warp drives and time travel, the other gives you Kirk meeting literal greek gods and Q creating mariachis ex nihlo. So, no, the "but...but...it's soft sf!" argument doesn't work here.

And, as veloper pointed out, a last-ditch plot device is a pretty weaksauce use for the ability to instantly reconfigure (on a subatomic level) any matter within 100 light-years to precise and flexible specifications. So what if it uses lots of energy? Build a dyson sphere! Convert a nebula into dyson spheres! You have the technology!

 

[Zac Sands]

Personally I don't care if the ending is happy or sad. I just want to know what Happens!
How hard would it have been to create an ending in the format of Dragon Age? Every quest you completed and the choices you made gave you a different little blurb about what happened to that Character (or Race) you influenced by a decision you made during a quest. ONE PARAGRAPH! Telling me how all of the decisions I made and ALL OF THE TIME I SPENT running around trying to make the right choices actually affected the story. How hard is that?!? Instead you give me absolutely no closure, no resolution, and no good explanation as to why the !@#$ any of this is happening.

 

[Zac Sands]

To qualify my previous statement.(I'm still very upset about this)

[SPOILER ALERT!!!]

[Begin Rant]
Lets say I chose to control the reapers. What did I do once I had control? Did I turn them into some intergalactic peace keeping force or did I follow the illusive mans dream and use them to control the galaxy and help man kind ascend to power? The outcome could be based on your reputation.

If I destroyed the reapers. Was the Catalyst right? Do Synthetics rise up in the future and kill everyone?

I NEED MORE INFORMATION!

If I cured the genophage. Do the Krogan live peacefully or do they get pissed off at other races and cause another war? Do we then have to ask the rachni for help against the Krogan(Twist/Irony)?

What happens to the love interest?

Do the Geth and the Quarians live Peacefully?

If normandy wenT down from the blast (in all three endings) Does that mean EVERY SHIP IN THE GALAXY took a dive?

Did Jacob name his baby Shepard after all?

Come On! It would not have taken bioware a week to answer all of these questions. All it would take is one brief write up at the end of the game that reflected the outcome of your decisions. I don't see how they could leave SO MANY Questions Hanging!

Sigh* [Rant Concluded]

I feel better now.