Bioware has changed... kinda.

[MercurySteam]

Am I the only one that was disappointed with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age II?

Sorry sonny, but you do realise that ME2 came out January last year and DAII came out six months ago? I hate to break it to you but you're a bit late to the punch.

Almost every opinion in (or not in) favour of these games has already been vented here on the forums time and again. So when I see something like this posted here on the forums, I facepalm and respond with this:

Thanks Kimarous for summing up my thoughts.

 

[Zhukov]

Mass Effect 2 has plot holes so large that the Destiny Ascension could slide right through and still have plenty of manouvering space.

I keep seeing people accuse ME2 of having huge plot holes. But whenever I ask them to elaborate, they never respond.

So... care to elaborate? What exactly were these huge plot holes?

 

[Bobbity]

You know why they're changing? [HEADING=1]EA[/HEADING] That's why.

I wouldn't go so far as to claim that everything is EA's fault, but looking at what happened to DA2, from the tiny development time to the increased emphasis on hack and slash elements, it's hard not to blame them.

ME2 was actually pretty good though, TOR looks great, and hopefully ME3 will be a return to form.

I'm hoping that Dragon Age 2's atrocious sales were a warning heeded by EA that they should just back the fuck off, as opposed to trying to COD-ify Bioware's games.

As alternative, although not necessarily mutually exclusive possibility, it could well be that the dip in quality of Bioware games has had less to do with EA than you might think. Almost all of Bioware's real talent has been thrown at making TOR as good as it could possibly be. Even ME1's lead writer was transferred, hence the somewhat less entertaining story of ME2.

If the latter theory holds true, or if, much more likely, it's a combination of the two, then I'm really hoping that we see a massive payout in the form of TOR.

To be honest though, I don't care that much anymore. Skyrim will be out soon, and then I'll probably be out of contact until the New Year, anyway.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Mass Effect 2 has plot holes so large that the Destiny Ascension could slide right through and still have plenty of manouvering space.

I keep seeing people accuse ME2 of having huge plot holes. But whenever I ask them to elaborate, they never respond.

So... care to elaborate? What exactly were these huge plot holes?

I think that Shamus Young dissected the entire storytelling problem with Mass Effect 2 pretty well, so I'll let his excellent posts on the topic be my reply: http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=7004

 

[Casual Shinji]

The difference is that Mass Effect and Dragon Age: Origins had a lot more breathing room. You were the one dictating the pacing of the game instead of the pacing of the game dictating you like in the sequels.

We should probably put this discussion to rest for now... Atleast untill Mass Effect 3 is out.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I liked ME2 and DA2 better than both of the first games.

ME3's release has been delayed by a few months, I presume this means it will not be slightly rushed, the way DA2 seemed to be.

 

[Quijiboh]

I felt the plot to Dragon Age 2 was a lot tighter and coherent than the one in Origins. My big problem with Origins was that I found the orcs... I mean darkspawn... incredibly boring. They were just a faceless mass of spiky evil, and the archdemon was just a spikier dragon, with none of the presence of, say, the Eye of Sauron, to hold together the horde as a scary entity. Sadly, this overshadowed the far more interesting subplot of civil war and political enmity that came with the betrayal of Loghain, which could have and should have carried the whole game.

Dragon Age 2 was a lot deeper by focusing on the evil that humans (and elves, dwarves and qunari for that matter) do to one another and how much more terrible that can be. It was also about a character's life, and how Hawke became more and more pivotal to the events surrounding him/her. I don't think abandoning standard narrative framing by not having a 'main plot' is a problem. Think about yourself, what's the 'main plot' of your existence? Life doesn't arrange itself into neat little parcels like that.

Gameplay-wise, I think it comes down to how you define what an RPG is. For me, numerous statistics and combat mechanics aren't an important part of that definition. Also, it doesn't always make sense. Like, in Mass Effect 1: If Commander Shepard is supposed to be a super-elite soldier chosen as the finest humanity can offer, how does it make sense that at the beginning of the game he can barely shoot a barn door?

 

[AugustFall]

I personally felt dragon age origins was lacking. I could see the top tier skills from the get go and none of them really impressed me. Also the passive skills and feats were boring and I just wasn't looking forward to leveling up as much as in previous games. In KOTOR every level up was another chance to get something that would change the game and there enough skills and feats to make you want to play again to try out the others.

I just didn't get the same vibe from DA:O. I prefer ME:2s style to be honest but I'm not really playing it like an RPG but more as a cover based shooter with a few RPG elements. I like characters and the story and the combat is very fun to me.

I guess I'll pick up ME:1 to compare when I'm done but yeah DA:O paled in comparison to NWN and KOTOR to me.

 

[Twilight_guy]

If developers never changed the kind of game they made and only cared about the people who first bought their game then Gaming would still be something that nerds do in a dark basement or an arcade.

I don't presume to be so self centered that I pretend my opinion has what a developer is doing has any relevance but for the enjoyment of the people here on the Escapist, I don't have a problem with what Biowear is doing nor do I see some sort of mass change. Maybe they are changing the game plan, maybe not. I don't really care. If they blow it, there are other developers and their a big company so I'm sure they know what they're doing.

 

[Hobonicus]

Am I the only one that was disappointed with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age II?

Every time you utter the phrase "am I the only one..." all the other people that are/doing/feeling/whatever, what you are about to desribe have their life spans shortened, and that a lot of people, this is the internet, not trying to be rude but if you think you are the only person with a given opinion you are incredibly wrong and you just might have an inflated opinion of yourself.

Again, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, I'm just laying down some truth, you dig?

It's kind of astonishing how often I see this response whenever someone says "Am I the only one...?" Do you people just not understand how standard phrases work?

It's insulting to everyone's intelligence when this gets pointed out.

 

[Vault101]

I love mass effect 2...though I do wonder if they are trying to apeal to everyone to the detriment of what made them so good in the first place..

only time will tell

 

[Matt King]

bioware is no where near gone or dead, i thought dragon age 2 and mass effect 2 were much better than the originals (maybe dragon age 2 wasn't quite as epic) I had to force my self to play through the rubbish combat of mass effect 1 just to get to the talky bits

 

[Ragsnstitches]

I'd just like to say, that in Mass Effect 1, the RPG elements were balls out retarded. I was glad to see them trimmed in 2, though would probably have preferred refinement over absolute removal. The highlight to the game was the story and character.

IMO, Mass Effect 2 was the better game... no more repetitive then its predecessor, but forgoing needlessly obtuse stat mechanics in favour of a more action orientated experience. It still kept a strong emphasis on character and plot, though I would say the Collectors don't really match up to Saren as an antagonist.

Dragon Age 2 was a MASSIVE misstep. DA 1 was a return to Traditional RPG's and was lauded for it. The story was good, making good use of traditional fantasy conventions and adding their own flare for good measure. The DLC ranged from okay to superb and overall, the game was great.

Dragon Age 2... was a shallow action/rpg which put a greater emphasis on watching the fighting rather then actually contributing. Huge chunks of depth were removed from the game, leaving a flat experience.

What it got right (character interaction was better then ME2, I liked the idea behind character specific skill trees though it was completely lame in execution, and choices had a bigger impact then any other Bioware game) was not enough to make up for the lousy overall experience. I wonder what they could have done to improve on this in the DLC.

Also, you're never "the only one"...

 

[Piorn]

My only complaint about ME2 is that they should have improved the Mako, instead of probing. I played all those hover-tank missions, but it didn't feel like exploring for me.

 

[faspxina]

No, you're not the only one.

Yes, I enjoyed ME2 and DA2.

 

[Doug]

Am I the only one that was disappointed with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age II?

You're never the only one. And these are two games that people ***** about a lot here. I can't belive you've missed it.

I personally liked Mass Effect 2 better than the original. They streamlined it, yes. And maybe a bit too far, yes. But at least it wasn't as awkward to play.

I also liked Dragon Age 2 even though it was somewhat of an disappointment when compared to it's predecessor.

Pretty much sums up my feelings about these two games.

That said, I have seen abit of a change in bioware over the last few years, changed for the worse generally; I can only hope my fears are unfounded.

 

[Zyntoxic]

Looking at the bigger picture though, Bioware isn't the only developer out there doing this. You can't please everyone all of the time but the people that brought you to the dance should be priority, namely those of us that have supported them and bought their games in the past. We don't all react the same way for drastic changes to the tried and true Bioware formula.

that is exactly it, you cant please every one, this is what their main wirter of Dragon Age, David Gaider, keeps saying over and over again, and honestly it pisses me off, because that was exactly what it felt like they were trying to do when they did DA II.
When they made DA:O they said in an interview with PC Gamer that Dragon Age: Origins was supposed to be their PC franschise, and ME their Console franschise, letting Origins be more like the orginal RPG's they always had done, but then half way through DA II they decided "hey, DA:O wasn't that very popular with the console gamers so lets try to do somthing that suits every one" *flailing with arms in rage*

OT: yes I'd say they changed alot, but I suspect EA actually got very little to do with it as much as the "company gowing too big"-syndrome.
I've played since Baldur's gate, and the only game from them I havn't played is that Sonic RPG that one apparently is not supposed to mention... (?) and their more recent games (DA II and ME2) have seemed to be targeted at an entirely different kind of crowd than their previous games.
this makes me sad, but can't call them bad or evil for shifting their own market, that is kind of their own choice to make... what makes me all the more sad though is that there isn't really a company that walks in their foot steps...


BTW, I played DA II at my PC, and the gameplay sucked in complarison to the previous game, half a year later I tried it on my Xbox 360, and it was so much better on console that it was almost like being slapped in the face (again) by bioware...

 

[Littlenorwegians]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcVZQI6ybw