Bioware has changed... kinda.

[SpaceBat]

Honestly, I felt Bioware really went downhill after KOTOR (Yes, Jade Empire was good, but it wasn't great and didn't compare in the slightest to their previous efforts. And Mass Effect had so many flaws, it makes Deadly Premonition look polished in comparison).

Really?
Because Kotor didn't have broken gameplay (so unbelievably unbalanced, it's ridiculous. Anyone with a brain can break their character very soon and very easily), doesn't entirely rely on a plot twist since the main story is bland and handled in a black-and-white manner and HK-47 isn't basically the only great character that came out of that game?

All of their games are flawed, including Kotor. So IMO, they started going downhill before Kotor, because KotoR is a good, but ridiculously overrated game.

 

[Smertnik]

ME2 is my favourite BW game by far. DA2 was quite mediocre but I still liked it more than DA:O. So yeah, to each his own.

 

[Ashbax]

Im gonna wait and see how the new Star Wars MMO turns out before accepting their death. However I already fear the end because they choose to join the cash cow of trying to make and mmo from one of the best single person series ever.

It doesn't look like a cash cow at all, get your facts straight, if you research it, it's basically KOTOR 3 in an MMO setting, and you can play it pretty much by yourself, with NPC companions, all the way until the only thing left to do is endgame, and even then you can make an alt if endgame and PvP etc offends you so much.

 

[Alade]

I love Mass Effect 1 and 2 equally, they are both my favorite games, the Mass Effect 2 gameplay is amazing, but only if you play it on insanity, it's much better than ME1 gameplay.

On the other hand I have to agree when it comes to dragon age, Dragon age 1 was a great game filled with flaws, the 2nd part was simply a bad game, a lot of bad things weren't changed, and a lot of the changes were bad.

I could care less about so called "RPG elements", for me an RPG is a game where you are the character, and your choices matter, not a game that requires math to play (not that I mind number crunching and min maxing, but it isn't what makes an RPG).

 

[Sjakie]

But therein lies my question for my fellow Escapists.

Am I the only one that was disappointed with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age II?

With both sequels in their two current main franchises, I felt largely disconnected from the experience in terms of gameplay. I found that some of it was due to the removal of so many RPG mechanics and elements and streamlining of certain things. I also had trouble, especially in Dragon Age II, connecting with the story and characters. The whole experience just felt disjointed and cluttered to me.

As it stands, I greatly prefer the first Mass Effect and Dragon Age: Origins over their successors. I felt they were better written and played closer to something I was more accustomed to from them. The paranoid side of me thinks EA have dug their claws in too deep and have had an influence on Bioware's work.

With that, I'd like to hear some honest impressions, especially from those of you that have played Bioware's games since Baldur's Gate.

-----

EDIT: Here's the thing, today I watched my friend beat Dragon Age II for the third time overall. Neither of us had touched it since around when it came out, I beat it once and I felt like I was done. He went ahead and beat it with each class. So I'm half-watching him, half-playing another game, and it started to all come back to me... how unimpressed I was with it the first time. Just so many things about it are awful. Looking at the bigger picture though, Bioware isn't the only developer out there doing this. You can't please everyone all of the time but the people that brought you to the dance should be priority, namely those of us that have supported them and bought their games in the past. We don't all react the same way for drastic changes to the tried and true Bioware formula.

I'm with you for the most part. Can't really say i was let down by ME2 but certainly by DA2, i hate that game and think it's just a cashcow considering the lack of work they put in there. The characters where well written but just not very interesting, stereotypes really.
The combat was shit on harder difficulties: they just pasted on another wave of enemies everytime and just not viable on lower level. The scrapped inventory management in DA2 made me crinch as well.
ME2 was lackluster in gameplay mechanics: take cover and shoot, rinse, repeat x1000.
The way Bioware is giving all their characters sidemissions for loyalty is lacking:
If you did not do that side-mission for char X, then char X dies/leaves...you can see that coming from a mile away, it feels like slapped on longevity.
Also the characters don't really contribute to the whole story whetever you did or did not do the mission, some more then others maybe. DA2 tries to work that in their endgame which is a plus though, but in ME2 the characters dont have anything more to say to you after you did the side-missions unless you want to bump uglies.

Everybody (well, almost) disliked the Mako in ME1, but considering we got planetscanning for it in ME2: i prefer the open world, riding around and discovering stuff in the paths less traveled like those 2 ancient temples. Yes, they sold us the hovertank later on as DLC which is just stripped content to nikkel and dime us.

EA likes to sell us half games so they can squeeze us for the rest afterwards!
Frankly if their upcomming MMO did not have the Star Wars brand, i don't think many would be interested. It's gameplay really looks uninteresting unless you play a jedi/sith at least then you get to chop off limbs...o, wait.
EA will be selling us extra zones/planets for overpriced DLC/expansions for that game, i won't be touching it.

I just wish Bioware made a move and went over to Bethesda/Zenimax. Imagine their open worlds combined with Bioware's original writing: that's a game i would pre-order without looking at any trailers

 

[scorptatious]

As for what I think, I found Mass Effect 2 to be a great game. Sure I do think Mass Effect 1 did a few things better. (like having a better antagonist) But overall, I found each of them to be a very enjoyable experience that warranted multiple playthroughs. Also, I anticipate the arrival of Mass Effect 3.

As for the Dragon Age games, I haven't played any of them so I can't say anything about them.

 

[-Dragmire-]

I wait to see how much Bioware has "changed" after I play ME3 (provided it's not infected by Origin)

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

I actually didn't find Dragon Age to be that great in my opinion. Great story but the gameplay was a bit stale. Perhaps is was because I played it on console but there was some buzzing on the interwebs about how Dragon Age: Origins wasn't the best overall so I know I'm not the only one who thinks this. It graphically didn't look nearly as good as Mass Effect or Oblivion or a lot of open world RPGs that were available, and wasn't as massive as Knights of the Old Republic 1 or 2.

I actually found the combat boring. I did enjoy the story though(even though it was a game called Dragon Age with one freaking dragon...which was optional...).

Now I know that 2's conbat is better but everything else sucked.

And let's not fool ourselves, Mass Effect has always been more shooter than RPG. They took out the stats that a decent amount of people never needed to upgrade. Yeah ME2 was more streamlined but I think for the better.

See, I don't fear Bioware working on The Old Republic. They announced it in 2008 so you know they've been working on it for at least 3 years since.

World of Warcraft came 3 years after it's announcement too. I don't think Bioware would mess this up. They aren't Obsidian.

 

[Grey_Focks]

Oh...this thread....again.

You're never the only one. Ever. Personally, I thought ME2 was a pretty big improvement over ME1. Not saying they didn't do a few things poorly, but the game was definitely overall just better, IMO at least. DA2, on the otherhand......had a lot of problems. I just take comfort in the fact that Mass Effect and TOR are being made by studios separate from Dragon Age.

 

[aashell13]

I liked ME2 a lot better than ME1, mainly because they streamlined the combat and inventory management. Didn't play DA2, had an average time with DA:O.

So no, I don't think BioWare is wrong, dead, dying, , at all.

I'll certainly be buying ME3, assuming I can get ahold of it someplace not Origin, might even get it on release day, which would be a first for me. I'll continue looking at TOR too, even though I'm not a fan of the art style or MMO's generally, and would much rather have had KOTOR 3.

 

[Zeraki]

Oh joy... this thread again.

Considering that bashing Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2 is this forums' favorite pass time, no you're not the only one. It seems that the people who actually like the games are the ones in the minority. And gods help you if you have the gall to admit that you like them.

 

[Joccaren]

Wait, You *Like* having broken, uninteresting combat? Look I'm all for heavy RPG elements but when it comes to gunplay, keep your grimy mitts off my aim.

And you *Like* Hiding behind a wall for 90% of a game, waiting for a chance to shoot the same enemy with the same gun, and use the one useful ability you have?
Aim wasn't too badly affected in ME1, except for the sniper rifle sway, that was bullshit. I was always able to aim any gun well with or without skill points in the gun. I however loved the ability to leave cover and live, and the ability to use more than one ability at a time. I'll take slightly harder aiming over extreme monotony any day (seriously, tell me any fight in ME2 had more to it than hide behind wall, shoot, use ability x. I'll give you the one that I found: That cave full of husks, and that was just ludicrously too many husks...)

 

[tmande2nd]

I personally was far more upset that Bioware is stuck in the same rut for every game.

I.E.:
Play the big goddam hero who does cool stuff.

The Bhaalspawn, Revan, Warden, Spirit Monk, Shepard, the Warden, and Hawke are all OP larger then life heroes who kick in doors, murder tons of stuff, and then run off with their LI of choice (depenind on if you played BG2, and not BG1. Or you took the Light Side ending in KOTOR).

I mean its just the same old formula again and again and again. Go down a linear plot route, defeat the big bad, end credits roll.

Hawke was an ATTEMPT to get past this but really .... Hawke is still just a big goddam hero really. If you side with the mages I guess, on the Templar ending, he still is a hero to some I guess.

But no Bioware games get nicer graphics, and better gameplay over time but their stories dont really deviate much.
It gets kind of annoying playing THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON OF ALL TIME in these settings again and again and again.

 

[Da Orky Man]

Haven't played DA2, so couldn't say. However, I do stand on the matter that Mass Effect 2 was awesome. The first Bioware game I played was KotOR, and you can see how they've changed, especially since Mass Effect and KotOR were made by the same team, but it's not for the bad. At least from my POV.

 

[DustyDrB]

I still love their games. I did start with them at Knights of the Old Republic, but have gone back and enjoyed both Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights (just the first game of each series). I like both Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age II, though both are probably BioWare's two most flawed games (well...except for the Sonic RPG, I assume). Knights of the Old Republic and Mass Effect are both classics to me, and Mass Effect 2 is my favorite game of all time.

Tales of their demise have been greatly exaggerated.

Oh, and to continue the trend...Oh look, it's this thread again.

 

[The Hero Killer]

People need to seriously lay off Mass Effect 2 sure it would have been nice to customize your party's equipment but I'd rather them all wear unique stuff instead of the same pink and white space suit like on ME1. Also having to shift though 10 of the same gun just for a few points of attack was just tedious. And people need to realize that scanning planets werent the sidequests of the game the N7 missions were and those looked better and were more unique than riding across a barren planet, scanning the same probes and rock formations, and fighting in the same little base everytime.

ME2 was the best Bioware game to date when it comes to mixing both action and roleplaying which I thought the dialogue and choice system would have been more important than dressing your characters when it came to roleplaying. I agree that the leveling system could have been expanded and I wish that all party memebers had their own unique skills and weapons instead of just mixing them up and spreading them around but thats it. We dont need that Mako or any driving for that matter unless its in a cutscene like during Katsumi's DLC or short sequences like during Shadow Broker and Overlord. I'll be so pissed it they take a step back and bring back all that boring and tedious stuff on ME3. /rant

P.S. I'll be the first to say that I am a shallow aesthetic minded person so bland things are a big turn off for me like ME1's armor system. It was the same thing with Dragon Age: Origins' my main problem was that game seemed to have only 4 or 5 different types of armor but luckily my mods changed that. Thats why I like COD over other shooters due to the constant excitement and scripted events and thats why I like the newer Star Wars movies just AS MUCH as the old ones because the flashier lightsaber fights and environments made up for the lack in storytelling. So take my OPINION as you will.

 

[VulakAerr]

No, you're not the only one, but I personally loved both of those games. Everyone has their own taste. What annoyed me about DA2 has been said countless times before: There was a lack of polish that manifested itself in many many reused assets. Other than that, I actually preferred its story to that of its predecessor. I'm tired of saving the world. I'm actually rather keen on a smaller, more personal story a la DA2. 6 months or so more development and it would have been up there with Bioware's usual standard.

Edit: By the way, Mass Effect 2 is still my all time favourite game, and I've been playing games of all genres for the past 20 years.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Bioware changed alot, RPG games aren't their thing anymore, now they are going towards an action movie blend.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Look, just because their last couple of games (developed by separate teams, no less) have had some subjective missteps (some more vocally addressed than others) does not mean "OMG THEY HAVE CHANGED FOR THE WORSE!" or that they have changed at all. Quit being fickle and give them the benefit of a track record before you start jumping down their throats.

Yaaaa, that is how I am seeing this thread too. I actually enjoyed both of the DA games. I was able to connect to the characters in both games. I also saw more depth in the "shallow" characters (Zevran/Isabella) than most people gave them credit for but that is just a personal gripe.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

omg you have to fck kidding me how the hell is dragon age 2 a better game

are you demented there were none improvements from the first one

Subjectivity for the win!

• A fully voiced main character was an improvement over a mute main character.
  The combat was faster paced (to call DA:O's "glacial" is an understatement)
  The graphics were improved.
  The horrifying crafting from DA:O was simplified.
  The storytelling was more ambitious, although not necessarily better (anyone who approves of DA:O's impossibly hackneyed "the orcs are coming" story line needs a punch to the throat).
  The balancing/difficulty curve was much improved.

That's not to say it was a better game than Origins, but pretending it was a massive step backwards across the board is either showing an irrational hatred for DA2, or hilarious rose colored glasses for DA:O. DA2 was rushed. It shows all over the place that is was rushed, with half-finished, poorly fleshed out narrative arcs and awful re-using of area maps. It wasn't a BAD game. Unfortunately this is an internet forum, where all opinions on everything must be "OMG BEST EVAR" or "BOOGA BOOGA WORST THING I EVER PLAYED SLAP IN MAH FACE!".