Bioware Sucks at Story telling

[yaydod]

for someone who claims bioware sucks, you sure have played a lot of bioware games. Most sane people stop buying things from a company after having one or two bad or less than satisfactory experiences


so what we have here is just another elite wannabe video game intellectual.

herp bioware sucks, but i still played 7+ of their games anyway derp.

First thing, i named this thread like that to get people to look at it, and no i don't think they "suck" but i do find them really mediocre and highly overrated.
Second point, yes i did play many Bioware games and used to really like them, but now i find the plots and characters just silly and not enough depth for my taste, also with some hind-site most of there plots are just copy pasted and not that inspired.

And on a related note if Baldur's Gate is the only game of theirs you haven't tried and you're already a fan of other similar infinity engine games like Planescape: Torment you really should pick it up. The Baldur's Gate series really was Bioware's best work in my mind! Easily available from gog.com too and I'd be happy to give you recommendations and help with any mods you might want to install to make these older gems a bit more modern.

Well i would like to get those games but i am wondering if i should wait for the re-release coming out soon.

 

[snekadid]

Look, you don't need to be a hero destined to save the universe from the beginning in RPGs. In KOTOR you're just a questionably talented Jedi trainee a long time before you're a superhero and ditto Neverwinter Nights.

BG2 aside, I don't think one can play NVN and say Bioware can't tell a story.

Its about time, went the whole thread thinking "these bastards... no ones mentioning NWNs....", I mean i could of passed it off as "Well their all kids and its a old game" but people have been talking about BG since the first post and thats ancient.

OP: pretty much agree with your post with a few exceptions, JE is amazing and no one may insult it, hell i replayed it recently when i grabbed it on steam sale and it still holds up, though apparently Elephant demons are OP in the PC version. Also, yes no maybe is not binary, adding a variable that represents uncertainty and/or lack of committal is a "trinary" choice and the only thing keeping us from making skynet.

everyone else: yes AP showed a multi path system, neat, too bad they couldn't figure out dialog since he couldn't even get a binary response system, every choice was just another douchebag option. I intentionally turned him into a smear after a few truly terrible conversations and they made me feel better.

 

[Gone Rampant]

SNIP

I do agree that they do make good companions, there were some really nice revelations in Jade Empire on one especially. Kotor 1 has very good companions (except Bastilla, very annoying, sadly i didn't find any option to kill her), and it is true the moral choice system does fit the setting but the main story is sooo predicable, it is sad

Unfortunately i didn't play the Baldures Gate series (like i said in the first post), i did play neverwinter nights1 (but i really preferred the second one, MASK OF THE BETRAYER all the way) but some one destroyed my disc and i wasn't able to finish it at the time. So i can only base my opinion on there games after KotoR, which i actually finished.

George Lucas ruined so many good games it is depressing

You can kill Bastilla after you kick her ass in the Star Forge.

 

[DioWallachia]

Of course Planetscape Torment is a good game, it has Tony Jay in it, and every game he is in is an instant success.

 

[DioWallachia]

Oooooh no they don't. MDK2 is one of the best games EVER.

Oh wait you mean the RPGs? Oh yeah... They suck.

MDK2 may be good but MDK1 is awe-inspiring in its how the levels are designed. I do like how they kept the orchestral score for the Kurt stage like in MDK1

 

[DioWallachia]

Bioware does a good job with characters, dialogue and emotional moments. Their plots could use some work.

This guy is the guy.

I smell that he will be the bonus secret boss for "I Wanna Be The Guy Gaiden"

 

[DioWallachia]

Last but not least, yes I am bringing this one in, Planescape Torment which is the best example of a story driven RPG done right, keeping it here for this one and if you don't know what I'm talking about go buy now from GOG

Forget all other games and just make a side by side comparation of PS:T and a Bioware RPG, to demostrate how can you make an scene that has emotional weight even when its mostly text based.

 

[yaydod]

Huh, I am pleasantly surprised that there is so little flaming in this thread, only few but very minor picks that's it. yay

I did play the first never winter, i was around 10, and all i remember is banging my head against a wall when i encountered the mind flayer's slave sale camp.

Forget all other games and just make a side by side comparation of PS:T and a Bioware RPG, to demostrate how can you make an scene that has emotional weight even when its mostly text based.

But that would be too easy, and it would feed the BioDrones lurking on the outskirts of the void.


Captcha: Umbrella Corporation... 0.o I might be in danger.

 

[dangoball]

Bioware does a good job with characters, dialogue and emotional moments. Their plots could use some work.

Their characters are rarely more than paper-thin templates. dialogue is rarely more than expository text blocks, and I'm sorry, but if I don't give a damn for the characters or the dialogue, it's hard to give a damn about the emotional moments. The games are not entirely devoid of these elements, but praising them for rather token attempts.....

Aw, come on, how can you not like HK-47 and the like?
Some of their characters take some time to be likable, true that. Example from BG2: Anomen, that pretentious little shit with stupid accent, is actually a wonderful character once you get to know him through romance.
That doesn't change the fact that Nalia is a whiny *****, though.

All in all Bioware gave us some of the best characters in games. Granted, most of them are almost ancient history (Minsc, Edwin/a, HK-47), however they can still deliver (do I even have to mention Garrus?). They do, however have their weak moments (James Vega, Miranda - i never liked her, say what you will; Jan Jensen - never hated turnips so much...) and those are becoming more common.

 

[yaydod]

A little of topic here, but to those who played KotoR2, did you find the secrets off most of your squad mates?
Especially the ones of Hanharr, GO-TO, HK-47 (which i find slightly better in the 2 than 1), Atton and Kreia (well she is a *****, might not bother with heres).
I think that those secrets really help to characterize your companions way better than in the 1st one and the other Bioware games.

If you didn't, I strongly advise you to try to find it out, and if you don't want to bother with the influence (or it is against your Character) use this editor and modify the influence of the NPCs to 100 to be able to enjoy the information.

And yes i know that KotoR2 is made by

 

[Zaik]

Let me help you with that OP.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

No, hang on, people aren't obligated to take into account 20 years of history before judging a company that has definitely changed it's outlook on gaming development. Bioware LONG ago abandoned their roots and there's absolutely no similarity to the company that created BG2 to the one that made Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 2.

While I agree about the company having changed, to get a fair overall picture, all their (relevant) titles should be considered, particularly considering how successful they were. Between BG and ME3 I count 9 titles so ignoring half of them is not a fair comparison.

I will agree that since the EA buyout after DA:O, the quality has gone down. The shareholders, rather than game developers, who dictate BW's creative process have decided we want homogenised action games and online passes. But BioWare pre-EA interference created the best RPGs with the best stories. Even as far as ME/DA:O they kept this trend. I would have (and did) buy anything with the BW name on it because it was assured to be a brilliant, polished game. EA managed to destroy that reputation quick enough but the OP isn't talking solely about "EA Canada", but BW as a whole.

 

[ResonanceSD]

I will agree that since the EA buyout after DA:O, the quality has gone down. The shareholders, rather than game developers, who dictate BW's creative process have decided we want homogenised action games and online passes.

Bioware and EA share one thing in common. I remember when they were the darlings of the industry. Now they've changed, and so has public sentiment. That's completely their own fault.

 

[Jetsetneo]

There are a lot of tropes in here that not only that Bioware does, but that (hey Bullsh!t figure) 90% of gaming does too. Every company has their tropes, every single one, thats why, typically you don't just get games from 1 company. You tend to experience many different companies.

Plot structure? Yeah, theres only so many framing devices, especially in Video Games. Go from point A to point B, for Entertainment!

Characters? Especially if they see action, there are going to be a lot of common tropes across genres, companies, and mechanics.

So the OP doesn't like Bioware, thats cool. I loathe Square Enix and 90% of what they do. I hold Valve on a Pedestal. I feel like a lover who is slowly losing interest in Blizzard. I'll enjoy Halo games, while yawning at CoD games. Bioware has given me more complete gaming packages than a lot of other game companies bother with. I've played a lot of awful games. And this is why I believe Bioware is still a great company and makes great games, because there is ALWAYS worse, and I'd rather have 'Bioware-rehash' than awful any day of the week.

 

[CentralScrtnzr]

I agree. Bioware is absolute rubbish. Ever since the dissolution of Black Isle, Bioware has only produced rubbish.

I'm sure I wont' be able to find the bloody picture, but working from KotOR and KotORII, the writing is absolute leagues apart. Case in point: Malak, villain of the first game, is a Saturday-morning cartoon villain. Darth Sion, villain of the second, well... I will let him describe the contrast in his own words: "I will bring his corpse to her, cast it at her feet. It will be as if killing her children. I will kill all she protects, all she shields, until her hands are drenched in blood."