BLARGH! I IS EVIL!: Villains who were not well fleshed out
- Thread starter Wildrow12
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Ozai's motivation was conquering the world for the fire army like his father/grandfather before him. He was just the current evil in a long line of evil. And he gets decked by the fucking AVATAR its not like he lost to saka, he got destroyed by the all super powerful reincarnation of thousands of benders. Plus the fact that the fight lasts on episode is alot better than the DBZ style of dragging the fight on for many episodes by using a lot of pointless charge up scenes.Wildrow12 said:
That being said i don't feel that every villain needs a backstory. Some people are just evil for the sake of being evil. Sauron had no back story. And if you look at comics, most the story archs that explain a villains back story are extremely cheesy and lame. Take into account any spiderman back story that isn't about venom or carnage.
Brock (from venture brothers) said it best when he asked "What's with you costume weirdos, one lab accident and then you want to take over the world" (paraphrased to the max).
I would much rather the conflict between good and evil be explained (like in nightwatch/lord of the rings) than a single evil person dribble on about his past.
What if he just wanted money or power?
I mean in the case of Kingpin or Lex Luthor, some back story is needed because they are the main adversary. But with Ozai, Doc Oc, Bullseye, and others their back story isn't really necessary. They are characters to be hated, where Zuko eventually becomes good and should be a character you sympathize with, his dad is just (the original) Star War's Emperor. He is a force that is evil for the sake of being evil and corrupt. You should not sympathize with him.
(The exception would be Eddy Brock who hated spiderman and when he became Venom he adapted the spidey-esqu look out of sheer hatred and rivalry. That is a background story that deserves to be told because it adds depth to the hatred)
I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate here and ask if any of you who are complaining have ever tired to come up with villain for story yourselves? 'Cause if not, I don't think you have the right to criticize. After all, I imagine these writers are under enough pressure as it is without us fans bitching. Again I'm reminded of what Yahtzee says ad-nausium, about fans being clinging complaining dipshits etc. etc.
BTW did they ever reveal who that guy actual was? I stopped watching it after Terra reappeared.Titanguy654 said:
In regards to Kefka, he doesn't need a motivation. He's insane.
A good twist on-topic I call the titular Overlord. Even after the completion of the game the general idea of doing evil for the sake of doing evil was a little dry in my tastes. It was fixed in the sequel when the game turned into a revenge story of sorts with his son but still... There's Egg in SaGa Frontier II as well. An evil sentient artifact, woo*. Villains don't need a massive backstory or quasi-omnipotent abilities to be considered adequate, taking Dhaos from Tales of Phantasia whose motivations are made clear right at the very end of the game after you beat him as an example.
Although now I have been wondering, would objects and non-personified aspects count as villains? I recall a certain manifestation being the villain in Final Destination, which also reminds me of Master Hand from a certain popular game series.
* I'm looking at you, Majora's Mask.
A good twist on-topic I call the titular Overlord. Even after the completion of the game the general idea of doing evil for the sake of doing evil was a little dry in my tastes. It was fixed in the sequel when the game turned into a revenge story of sorts with his son but still... There's Egg in SaGa Frontier II as well. An evil sentient artifact, woo*. Villains don't need a massive backstory or quasi-omnipotent abilities to be considered adequate, taking Dhaos from Tales of Phantasia whose motivations are made clear right at the very end of the game after you beat him as an example.
Although now I have been wondering, would objects and non-personified aspects count as villains? I recall a certain manifestation being the villain in Final Destination, which also reminds me of Master Hand from a certain popular game series.
* I'm looking at you, Majora's Mask.
One thing that always made me giggle about Star Wars was that the Empire were seen as the bad guys for destroying Alderaan. Fair enough, quite nasty. The Rebels then destroyed the death star, with a loss of all hands.
So, one side destroys a planet, the other destroys an artificial moon crewed by (what could only be) 100,000's of people.
One side is slightly more nasty than the other - but neither side is right.
One of the main things I liked about the KotoR games - they showed that the Jedi were aloof, uncaring arseholes and the Sith cared for nothing but power. Jedi were old and pretentious, the Sith were young and reckless. Both as bad as each other.
Anyway, OT, my first thought is Sovereign from Mass effect. But part of me kinda likes the mystery of it all - similar to the Shivans from Freespace 2. They annihilate every living thing in the galaxy every million years or so. But part of me doesn't really want the story concluded.
So, one side destroys a planet, the other destroys an artificial moon crewed by (what could only be) 100,000's of people.
One side is slightly more nasty than the other - but neither side is right.
One of the main things I liked about the KotoR games - they showed that the Jedi were aloof, uncaring arseholes and the Sith cared for nothing but power. Jedi were old and pretentious, the Sith were young and reckless. Both as bad as each other.
Anyway, OT, my first thought is Sovereign from Mass effect. But part of me kinda likes the mystery of it all - similar to the Shivans from Freespace 2. They annihilate every living thing in the galaxy every million years or so. But part of me doesn't really want the story concluded.
canadamus_prime said:
On the first point: yep, I've tried running the writer route. So I understand the pressure these guys are under (usually by editors and other such folks who keep interfering in the process).
Second point: No. At least not in the animated series.
I have to disagree. I like villains that have a back story, especially a back story that have a part that the villain could have either chose good or evil. that really makes a villain for me. The relateableness of villains gives the story more than just a good vs. evil motif, but it makes it deeper, saying "Yeah, this man is horrible and evil, but you could have made the same choices as him, and became a villain as well."Monkfish Acc. said:
As shitty as the Starwars Prequel trilogy was, Anakin's choices made it almost worthwhile because of this.
I'll say the same thing about most cartoon-ish villains as I say about the Joker (as if there's any difference): They're off their fu***** rocker. There is no sense in the mind of a mad-man.
Wesker from RE5.
"Humans already kill each other. By turning everyone into tentacle monsters, I'm preparing for my invasion of Japan really saving everyone!"
I think the stupidity of that game was summed up by the line
"Goddamnit, Wesker. He's really serious about destroying the entire planet!"
Oooooh, right Chris. It was all one huge fucking joke before, but suddenly he's playing for keeps. Didn't the checkered black trenchcoat and glasses tip you off? He is evil.
"Humans already kill each other. By turning everyone into tentacle monsters, I'm preparing for my invasion of Japan really saving everyone!"
I think the stupidity of that game was summed up by the line
"Goddamnit, Wesker. He's really serious about destroying the entire planet!"
Oooooh, right Chris. It was all one huge fucking joke before, but suddenly he's playing for keeps. Didn't the checkered black trenchcoat and glasses tip you off? He is evil.