Blizzard Banning Single Player Cheaters?

[Eldarion]

The editor that comes with the game? So its fine to use the tools blizzard gives you? Thats my point. The in game editor and the in game cheat codes aren't the only ones that I might use, blizz should not have ANY say about what I do with my single player game on my own profile.

And signing in as guest does not solve the issue either. Your missing the point.

Yes, because they know you can't cheat with the editor, but they don't know if you C++ code is for hacking a achievement or changing gameplay. Not like they have problem with program that change just the gameplay, there is ton of mod for Diablo 2 they never cared about it, as long it is not for cheating. There is even a mod for starcraft 2 beta and they said they loved it and send a copy to all developers. They are completely fine with changing gameplay, again as long it is not cheating.

It sounds more like they are fine with you using the tools they give you, but the in game editor and in game cheat codes aren't the end all be all of game editing. The fact that a single player aspect effects multiplayer is bad design. Blizz should not be allowed to tell me I can't mod my single player games any way I want with whatever programs. I don't even care about the achievements, but now blizz has set a president that means they can ban you for using any mods at all.

 

[Eldarion]

You are forgetting that the precedent set by Nintendo vs Galoob says that it is legal to manipulate how the code operates as long as it is temporary (ie, it doesn't overwrite the code permanently).

http://virtuallyblind.com/2008/07/14/blizzard-wins-sj-mdy/

This is a case about a WoW Bot developer and how their program being loaded into RAM violates Blizzard's copyright.

The important bits:

Blizzard owns a valid copyright in the game client software, Blizzard has granted a limited license for WoW players to use the software, use of the software with Glider falls outside the scope of the license established in section 4 of the TOU, use of Glider includes copying to RAM within the meaning of section 106 of the Copyright Act, users of WoW and Glider are not entitled to a section 117 defense, and Glider users therefore infringe Blizzard?s copyright.

The program in question does not modify WoW's coding at the base level (as established in Nintendo vs Galoob), yet, the courts ruled in favor of Blizzard because the program modified the intended output of the program in such a way that it violated the license (that good ol' copyright at work) granted to the user.

The precedent set in this case is virtually identical to today's topic.

An mmo is not a single player game. Apples=/=oranges. It is not identical.

In fact, your getting it wrong a little. The only reason blizz won that case is cause it affected data being used by blizzard servers. You can do whatever you want with the base game. Private servers believe it or not aren't illegal by themselves. Blizz can onyl action against them if they use blizzard copyright to make money. Thats why the top 5 private servers are still up and running. They don't profit off what they do, all the donation money they get goes into improving the servers.

 

[Grigori361]

The editor that comes with the game? So its fine to use the tools blizzard gives you? Thats my point. The in game editor and the in game cheat codes aren't the only ones that I might use, blizz should not have ANY say about what I do with my single player game on my own profile.

And signing in as guest does not solve the issue either. Your missing the point.

Yes, because they know you can't cheat with the editor, but they don't know if you C++ code is for hacking a achievement or changing gameplay. Not like they have problem with program that change just the gameplay, there is ton of mod for Diablo 2 they never cared about it, as long it is not for cheating. There is even a mod for starcraft 2 beta and they said they loved it and send a copy to all developers. They are completely fine with changing gameplay, again as long it is not cheating.

Not to be a dick, but that once again is missing the point, it gives them power, specifically power over things like mods. I'm not sure how much you've studied human history or the nature or human psychology, but if someone is given power they use it. Meaning the abuse of said power is something one will need to watch their backs for now. Directly I would agree this is harmless, but there are long reaching implications, that I hope will be proven wrong. But if one recalls blizzard sueing that lady who ran a not for profit wow server for millions (or was it billions) of dollars they knew she couldn't pay.

Then ask yourself if you feel comfortable giving blizzard the power to Make an "example" of anyone who mods their game in a way they find objectionable. Maybe it's just me, and my creative biases, but to me this isn't about punishing Mr douch licker for hacking something, it's making sure it doesn't go father and spill into making the "punishment" the crime rather then suitable for the crime, a point I feel it's already gotten to.

 

[Exort]

It sounds more like they are fine with you using the tools they give you, but the in game editor and in game cheat codes aren't the end all be all of game editing. The fact that a single player aspect effects multiplayer is bad design. Blizz should not be allowed to tell me I can't mod my single player games any way I want with whatever programs. I don't even care about the achievements, but now blizz has set a president that means they can ban you for using any mods at all.

The Mod I point out are not made by Blizzard's editor. There is a ton of Mod for their game that is not made by the editor sepcially Diablo 2, WoW because it have no editor. They don't ban you for mods they ban you for cheating. Anyways, I don't think there will be a single MOD in Starcraft 2 not made by editor because it is so powerful unlike warcraft 3 which if you are serious about moding it is better using third party program.

 

[Eldarion]

It sounds more like they are fine with you using the tools they give you, but the in game editor and in game cheat codes aren't the end all be all of game editing. The fact that a single player aspect effects multiplayer is bad design. Blizz should not be allowed to tell me I can't mod my single player games any way I want with whatever programs. I don't even care about the achievements, but now blizz has set a president that means they can ban you for using any mods at all.

The Mod I point out are not made by Blizzard's editor. There is a ton of Mod for their game that is not made by the editor sepcially Diablo 2, WoW because it have no editor. They don't ban you for mods they ban you for cheating. Anyways, I don't think there will be a single MOD in Starcraft 2 not made by editor because it is so powerful unlike warcraft 3 which if you are serious about moding it is better using third party program.

But this sets precedent, this means that they CAN ban you for any third party program or mod at all.

 

[Exort]

Not to be a dick, but that once again is missing the point, it gives them power, specifically power over things like mods. I'm not sure how much you've studied human history or the nature or human psychology, but if someone is given power they use it. Meaning the abuse of said power is something one will need to watch their backs for now. Directly I would agree this is harmless, but there are long reaching implications, that I hope will be proven wrong. But if one recalls blizzard sueing that lady who ran a not for profit wow server for millions (or was it billions) of dollars they knew she couldn't pay.

Then ask yourself if you feel comfortable giving blizzard the power to Make an "example" of anyone who mods their game in a way they find objectionable. Maybe it's just me, and my creative biases, but to me this isn't about punishing Mr douch licker for hacking something, it's making sure it doesn't go father and spill into making the "punishment" the crime rather then suitable for the crime, a point I feel it's already gotten to.

Well, they always have that much power, but you are right we can only wait and see.
By the way that lady violated a little law called copy right? Anyways how much they sue is always a way to scare people off from do it, you really think the count would approve that? evn they do there is no way she can pay Blizzard and they know it. It is common way to scare people.

 

[Grigori361]

Mhm that's exactly it it's a way to scare people, I take poorly to intimidation. Of any kind. As for whomever she was, there is something of an interesting potential legality in running a not for profit server as copyright usually has to do with selling, and she wasn't actually selling anything, and so long as those who played on the server Bought their copies of wow legally there is a certain legal basis for such a thing being possibly legal... but then you'd need a LOT of money and a DAMN good lawyer to try going that route, to be honest I didn't look too far into it myself not being a fan of wow.

That aside destroying the financial future of some lady for running what amounts to a gaming charity; albeit a questionably legal one, isn't something I'd personally consider to be anything less then a Dick move, and possibly something illegal under certain parts of the US constitution (assuming one had the money to try arguing that she wasn't cutting into their profits, because the people who were part of it didn't have the money for wow.)

Remember people scalping tickets for a sports game is only illegal if you charge more then legal value paid for the tickets, for a reason.

But enough for now I think, I need to get some sleep, I can't just go to work tomorrow without any energy.

 

[Eponet]

Great, you consider it theft. I don't.

Unless the Bnet connection is worthless then yes, Blizzard has stolen some value from the players.

They haven't stolen anything.

Copying: Object is duplicated, both people gain
Theft: One person gains the object at the cost of the other
Vandalism: Object/service is removed from origional owner without being given to the offender.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Huh, used to be that when you bought a game, you owned that game and could enjoy it's content in whatever manner you saw fit. Now apparently you're somehow insulting the developer's artistic sensibilities if you cheat or mod the single-player aspects of the game, and they can take away your right to use a product which you legally purchased.

Not to nitpick, but for most of the time there have been things one might call "video games" video games being released to the consumer you'll note that they came with an end user agreement wherein it asserts your ownership does not include modifying or reverse engineering the product.

 

[Scout Tactical]

Anyone who thought this was about the single player is incredibly dumb.

What hackers are doing is testing to see if Blizzard can catch them by deploying their cheats on Single Player, which is still online. Now they want their accounts back so they can continue to develop illicit materials.

Either way, it violates EULA, which they agreed to, so they have no case. Maybe they should have read it before they hit "accept".

 

[Scout Tactical]

Anyone who thought this was about the single player is incredibly dumb.

What hackers are doing is testing to see if Blizzard can catch them by deploying their cheats on Single Player, which is still online. Now they want their accounts back so they can continue to develop illicit materials.

Either way, it violates EULA, which they agreed to, so they have no case. Maybe they should have read it before they hit "accept".

I think Blizzard is testing gamers to see how far they can push us into asking permission to play a game we bought.

If we do not agree with EULA, what's our recourse? Have stores changed their policy about open software?

I have to agree with you there. Blizzard is definitely pushing the letter by preventing people from hacking in their game. Hacking to get achievements is one of a gamer's inalienable rights, and it was bullshit when Blizzard made it so their built in cheats turned off achievements, so I can really sympathize with these hackers. Most of them just want to pump up their e-peen with achievement points, not test out new hacking engines. Only the minority are people testing new hacking engines, and that should still be okay, because until they use them in real ranked matches, it's alright to develop them and have them.

That said, if you don't agree with the EULA, you can return the game directly to Blizzard, especially if you got it via digital download. I know a guy who returned his copy of WoW, already opened, after he found out he had to pay monthly (I dunno how he avoided finding that out...), but didn't have any play time. Blizzard is one of the more understanding companies about EULAs, so that doesn't really fly.

 

[deth2munkies]

I have 0 sympathy for idiots that cheat in single player with 3rd party programs. There's no bloody reason for it, the game is rather simple on easier settings, has cheat codes built in that do everything a trainer would, and has no fucking point other than to make it less fun.

Do you also feel that same about people who use mods for other PC games or cheating devices like Gameshark, Action Replay, etc...?

There's a difference: AR/Gameshark are cheats that aren't already in the game and can't help you in multiplayer (no matter what you say, you feel a lot worse going against someone with a Kerrigan icon than one that hasn't even beaten the campaign on normal). Mods are a completely different thing, violating the ToS should always result in a ban, but here's the main kicker:

None of those games have integrated support and online multiplayer like battle.net and SC2. If you use a trainer on a Steam game, you'll probably get banned if you're caught as well, and that's the main difference.

So you do see that the problem here is that Blizzard has intergrated single and multiplayer via achievements and that Blizzard is who really caused this problem. After all, people have been cheating in single player games for years and only recently has it become a problem.

While Battle.net has fuckloads of problems, integrating single and multiplayer into the same system is one of its strengths, not weaknesses. If you really want to use trainers/mods to fuck around with the game, USE THE DAMN GALAXY EDITOR.

 

[Digitaldreamer7]

Even cheating in single-player using 3rd party methods rather than the usual built-in codes is still using 3rd party software to hack, modify and abuse the game. Wether used in multiplayer or not, I can imagine Blizzard might take issue with people screwing with their magnum opus.

Huh, used to be that when you bought a game, you owned that game and could enjoy it's content in whatever manner you saw fit. Now apparently you're somehow insulting the developer's artistic sensibilities if you cheat or mod the single-player aspects of the game, and they can take away your right to use a product which you legally purchased.

I'm sorry, but to me that seems a lot like bullshit. There is a clearly defined rationale behind banning people who cheat in multiplayer - they are giving themselves and unfair advantage in a competitive environment. That doesn't apply to single-player, even achievements for actions completed within single-player. When servers and matchmaking are provided by the developer, the developer has the right to enforce it's own rules on players who choose to engage in the multiplayer aspect of the game. However, the idea that because the developer requires an arbitrary connection to a server in order to play the single-player game, they should also be able to prevent people from playing that game? Nope.

Just another reason to pirate games, well done Blizzard, you've leapt willingly on to the bandwagon that's ruining your own industry.

Agreed, what somebody does in singleplayer is their own business. Multiplayer is a competitive environment as you stated and cheating/hacking should not be allowed there, however in singleplayer there should be no limitation.

Pirate it if you want to play it your way, or agree to the terms and play the game abiding by those terms. Simply put, you want to play the game how it was designed, go right ahead and do so, if you go outside of those guidelines in blizzards online environment for which you have to agree to terms of use then you get the banhammer.

Just to clarify this isn't because someone made a really cool mod to the game or because someone added some cool stuff to the UI of the game. It's because some no skill fuckwads decided they were going to get the achievements and icons in the game WITHOUT having the skills to earn them properly. Those faggots deserve the ban. I say Good game blizzard, if you can't play the game to get the achievements the right way you don't deserve them.

 

[Scout Tactical]

Blah blah blah

No, EULA's are not legally binding and this is one of the reasons why.

Then your gripe is with Blizzard making EULAs more available, which I think everyone can get behind. That said, I'm sure with enough searching the web, you could find the EULA online and make an objective, legal decision.

I guess there's no reason not to ban these hackers after all, since we all agree we should have more information, and punish those who skip reading their agreements. It'll be a good lesson for their first credit card or housing contract.

Also, if you bought the game via digital download, there is no cost for shipping, and no delivery time. They just charge your credit back and deactivate your key once you give it to them. Isn't cloud computing wonderful?