Blizzard Challenges Valve Over DOTA Trademark.

[Steampunk Viking]

I think the first iteration of DOTA pre-dated IceFrog.

So on your logic Phone companies own the internet? I mean, its their system thats been modded to carry it. Alternately Java owns Zynga? I mean all Zyngas games run in Java so this must be true right?

Just because your system was the platform for the idea doesnt give you rights over it. If DOTA first Appeared in AoE 2 would Microsoft own it? Of course not its ludicrous.

First of all, I'm sorry I seemed to have offended you, I did say I may have my facts muddled up and I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

Second of all, Java is a script and one specific phone company doesn't hold every internet account, but they can deny access if you use them depending on the contract you hold... thing is, I don't know the user agreement with modding Blizzard's games so I can't even comment on that, and really that's what this amounts to.

I'm not sure of the legal implications, I'm speculating, I'm sure the court will know better than me though.

 

[Njaard]

Honestly, to you people saying it's bad of Valve to make DOTA2... IceFrog has been making DotA since 2006, Eul and Guinsoo before that.

Blizzard had plenty of chances for making a sequel, but they didn't. They dropped the ball and now they're butthurt.

 

[Steampunk Viking]

Honestly, to you people saying it's bad of Valve to make DOTA2... IceFrog has been making DotA since 2006, Eul and Guinsoo before that.

Blizzard had plenty of chances for making a sequel, but they didn't. They dropped the ball and now they're butthurt.

It's not bad, Valve have stepped in to give people what they want, but I'm not entirely sure how much of a claim Blizzard have on it. I'm hoping not a lot, if any otherwise that would suck.

 

[Plinglebob]

While I admit I've never studied Trademark & Copyright law, I think Blizzard have a strong case. From what I can tell their argument boils down to "When people see DOTA, they think Warcraft III and so think of Blizzard. When people see DOTA2, they will think its a Blizzard product and so buy it, when in fact its by Valve. Therefore Valve are making money from Blizzards name."

I have to say when DOTA2 was first announced I thought it was gonna be a Blizzard game and I was shocked that Valve would be stupid enough to name their game DOTA2 instead of the safer "DOTA Clone: Made by original team". Its probably because Valve's legal team need a whack round the head , but the conspiracy theorist in me thinks they're spoiling for a fight and hoping the precedent finds in their favour.

I'm surprised it's taken them this long.

Soon after Valve announced DOTA2, Blizzard announced "Blizzard DOTA" which in hindsight now looks more like an attempt to shore up their own claim on this case. I'd guess as soon as Valve announced Blizz got the legal ball rolling, but due to the speed of these things its only now come to light.

Edit: The worse thing for me about all this (as someone who's never cared about DOTA) is Valve will almost certainly come out smelling like roses no matter how it goes despite my feelings that Vale is ultimately in the wrong at least morally. If it goes Valves way, then it gives them authority to tempt over mod teams for non-valve games to work for them. If it goes Blizzards way, Valve will be portrayed as the good company trying to bring a sequal to the community but stopped by the evil Acti-Bliz.

 

[Talshere]

I think the first iteration of DOTA pre-dated IceFrog.

So on your logic Phone companies own the internet? I mean, its their system thats been modded to carry it. Alternately Java owns Zynga? I mean all Zyngas games run in Java so this must be true right?

Just because your system was the platform for the idea doesnt give you rights over it. If DOTA first Appeared in AoE 2 would Microsoft own it? Of course not its ludicrous.

First of all, I'm sorry I seemed to have offended you, I did say I may have my facts muddled up and I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

Second of all, Java is a script and one specific phone company doesn't hold every internet account, but they can deny access if you use them depending on the contract you hold... thing is, I don't know the user agreement with modding Blizzard's games so I can't even comment on that, and really that's what this amounts to.

I'm not sure of the legal implications, I'm speculating, I'm sure the court will know better than me though.

Havent offended, things just sound angry over the net. I was just making the point. The internet analogy was perhaps ill conceived but the Java one was right on the money. Warcraft 3 was just a script that DOTA was written in. It was a very elaborate and specific script, but its just a platform. The actual Warcraft 3 game plays nothing like DOTA.

 

[Sixcess]

Edit: The worse thing for me about all this (as someone who's never cared about DOTA) is Valve will almost certainly come out smelling like roses no matter how it goes despite my feelings that Vale is ultimately in the wrong at least morally. If it goes Valves way, then it gives them authority to tempt over mod teams for non-valve games to work for them. If it goes Blizzards way, Valve will be portrayed as the good company trying to bring a sequal to the community but stopped by the evil Acti-Bliz.

In the long term that can only hurt the modding community. Blizzard have historically been very supportive of modding of their games (like their handling of the 'World of Starcraft' guy, where they basically said "you can keep making it, just change the name") but if they come out of this the loser I imagine they'd come up with new EULAs to restrict the modding of their work. Other companies would follow suit, and who could blame them?

 

[linwolf]

I am with Blizzard on this one, nobody should have exclusive rights for the name DOTA and Valve trying to trademark the name is just wrong.

And I feel that if Valve win it will hurt the modding community.

 

[Plinglebob]

Edit: The worse thing for me about all this (as someone who's never cared about DOTA) is Valve will almost certainly come out smelling like roses no matter how it goes despite my feelings that Vale is ultimately in the wrong at least morally. If it goes Valves way, then it gives them authority to tempt over mod teams for non-valve games to work for them. If it goes Blizzards way, Valve will be portrayed as the good company trying to bring a sequal to the community but stopped by the evil Acti-Bliz.

In the long term that can only hurt the modding community. Blizzard have historically been very supportive of modding of their games (like their handling of the 'World of Starcraft' guy, where they basically said "you can keep making it, just change the name") but if they come out of this the loser I imagine they'd come up with new EULAs to restrict the modding of their work. Other companies would follow suit, and who could blame them?

I have to say I only thought on a company level (being an evil corporate accountant and all ) but you're right. I can imagine all companies, not just Blizz and Valve, are watching this carefully while drawing up a bunch of new EULAs regarding modding just in case.

On a side note, anyone else find it funny/sad/somehow ironic that the 2 mod friendliest companies are finally going head to head over a mod?

 

[Njaard]

Valve is only trying to trademark the word Dota, by the way. The Wc3 mod was called DotA, which is an abbrievation of Defence of the Ancients, and Valve isn't touching that.

 

[Skin]

The HoN master race sits backs and enjoys the chaos. Mwahahahaha.

IceFrog made Dota? Please fuck off. He just maintained it (poorly) and stole idea's from the non-Allstar games. Dude was a hack and still is.

 

[Steampunk Viking]

Havent offended, things just sound angry over the net. I was just making the point. The internet analogy was perhaps ill conceived but the Java one was right on the money. Warcraft 3 was just a script that DOTA was written in. It was a very elaborate and specific script, but its just a platform. The actual Warcraft 3 game plays nothing like DOTA.

Fair enough. Like I say, I don't know, I don't even know what their user agreements are (not bothered reading them, just accept like everyone else).

I'm all up for Valve making this game, but if Blizzard are only trying to prevent Valve from copyrighting the game, then I'm entirely on Blizzard's side. Valve should not have claims to the copyright when there were many more people involved before them.

Also, not that it matters, but I'm pretty sure Java is a explicitly free to use platform, whereas I'm not sure about Blizzard's terms.

 

[black_knight1337]

But the DOTA format was never blizzards to begin with, it was user generated content.

I know it was never blizzards to begin with however it was created using blizzard's materials and is directly connected to warcraft and its lore. The only one with any claim to the name DotA is blizzard. They have provided the tools needed for this mod to be created and have been supporting it since its creation. Valve on the other hand just want to cash in on the DotA name and the rush in the genre.

 

[Talshere]

Havent offended, things just sound angry over the net. I was just making the point. The internet analogy was perhaps ill conceived but the Java one was right on the money. Warcraft 3 was just a script that DOTA was written in. It was a very elaborate and specific script, but its just a platform. The actual Warcraft 3 game plays nothing like DOTA.

Fair enough. Like I say, I don't know, I don't even know what their user agreements are (not bothered reading them, just accept like everyone else).

I'm all up for Valve making this game, but if Blizzard are only trying to prevent Valve from copyrighting the game, then I'm entirely on Blizzard's side. Valve should not have claims to the copyright when there were many more people involved before them.

Also, not that it matters, but I'm pretty sure Java is a explicitly free to use platform, whereas I'm not sure about Blizzard's terms.

Yeah.

As I say DOTA is now a game type not a game in itself, as such, you cant copywirte it. It would be like blizzard trying to copywrite MMO or RTS.

 

[Njaard]

The HoN master race sits backs and enjoys the chaos. Mwahahahaha.

IceFrog made Dota? Please fuck off. He just maintained it (poorly) and stole idea's from the non-Allstar games. Dude was a hack and still is.

IceFrog made what was a poorly designed mess (with potential) into the relatively well balanced machine DotA is now.

 

[Skin]

The HoN master race sits backs and enjoys the chaos. Mwahahahaha.

IceFrog made Dota? Please fuck off. He just maintained it (poorly) and stole idea's from the non-Allstar games. Dude was a hack and still is.

IceFrog made what was a poorly designed mess (with potential) into the relatively well balanced machine DotA is now.

There were non-Allstar games with much better balance. In reality, what we have is what we accept as balance. Some heroes will never, ever break into the competitive scene based on design, and others will never ever leave it.

What IceFrog did was fix broken heroes. He did not create balance. Lets not forget he buffed Broodmother to invincible status and left her like that for... oh I can't remember, 6 months? A year?

That said, I am not going to pretend HoN's balance is any better since it comes from shitty Dota balance and also fumbles the ball every fucking play.

 

[Plinglebob]

As I say DOTA is now a game type not a game in itself, as such, you cant copywirte it. It would be like blizzard trying to copywrite MMO or RTS.

If thats a case, why did Valve call their game DOTA 2 when it would be like me releasing a game called RTS 3? The only reason Valve would call it DOTA 2 is to get repuation and brand recognition from the original Mod which most people is linked in their minds to Blizzard.

 

[Njaard]

As I say DOTA is now a game type not a game in itself, as such, you cant copywirte it. It would be like blizzard trying to copywrite MMO or RTS.

If thats a case, why did Valve call their game DOTA 2 when it would be like me releasing a game called RTS 3? The only reason Valve would call it DOTA 2 is to get repuation and brand recognition from the original Mod which most people is linked in their minds to Blizzard.

People like me, who play it, do NOT link it to Blizzard. They've had no hand in its success; the closest thing to helping it is increase map size limit for custom maps (along with making an excellent map editor -- but that was not done explicitly for DotA).

 

[Qitz]

That's a tricky bit of stuff there. Blizzards DOTA is Defense of the Ancients while Valve simply uses the word DOTA.

I can see where Blizzard does have a heads up, it being an original WC3 mod that was short-handed as "DOTA" but Valves has been DOTA from the start hasn't it?

Blizzard would have to get the leg up here since they had the original product but there's also the argument that they've waited so long to act on it that they've given up their right to object.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I'm surprised it's taken them this long.

I think Valve are in the wrong this time. DOTA is a Warcraft mod, and has no link to anything Valve has ever originated. If anyone has a claim on the name it's Blizzard.

I think the original mod team has a claim to the name myself. And since all but one of them quit, and that last guy worked with Valve to make DOTA2, then they are in the right here.