Blizzard Challenges Valve Over DOTA Trademark.

[Bradeck]

I think this is stupid. Blizzard has stolen every idea in their existence. From Warcraft to Starcraft, it's all stolen ideas. Just look at the entire first expansion of WoW. Stolen STRAIGHT from Jim Henson's the Dark Crystal. Look at Starcraft. The entire lore is even stolen from Warhammer 40K. Zerg=Tyranids, Space Marines=Space Marines, Protoss=Eldar, it goes on and on. Blizzard has always been the laziest content producers in the game market, and yet always the first to cry foul as well.

 

[Bradeck]

I think this is stupid. Blizzard has stolen every idea in their existence. From Warcraft to Starcraft, it's all stolen ideas. Just look at the entire first expansion of WoW. Stolen STRAIGHT from Jim Henson's the Dark Crystal. Look at Starcraft. The entire lore is even stolen from Warhammer 40K. Zerg=Tyranids, Space Marines=Space Marines, Protoss=Eldar, it goes on and on. Blizzard has always been the laziest content producers in the game market, and yet always the first to cry foul as well.

THANK YOU, OH MY GOD! Hearing you state the unknown and well-hidden truth that everyone else seems so oblivious to almost makes me jizz in my pants. Oh, sweet, tiny, satisfaction...at least SOMEONE knows. I think Blizzard makes excellent games, but when it comes to original and unique ideas they FUCKING SUCK. They're the Steve Jobs of the gaming industry: They take ideas and things that already exist, improve them, slap on a new sticker and then go as far as they can to say it was their idea all along without actually risking to be called on it.

Starcraft was originally meant to be a Warhammer 40k game. Or was it Warcraft that was originally meant to be a Warhammer Fantasy game? Both?
And it goes on and on, right down to small details in games like WoW. Just look at the Transmogrification thing they recently added. Idea ripped from Warhammer Online/Guild Wars 2. And they in turn probably got it from somewhere else I bet...Yet now WoW is going to be the one everyone associates it with

Seriously. Just look at the "Dragoon" unit lore. Almost the EXACT wording as the "Dreadnaught" unit in 40K. It's fucking pathetic. But such is the fickle memory of people in this industry. They could slap a new title on Halo, change the color palettes, and people would clamour for it to be "GAME OF THE YEAR". Oh wait, they already did that.

 

[Bobic]

Is there a reason why Blizzard are doing this now. It seems needlessly cruel to wait until Valve have all but released the game and then say, 'actually, no'. Seriously, either take them to court when they first announce it or not at all, don't wait for them to waste all those resources on it, that's just not nice, bad Blizzard.

Also, considering it is a fanmade mod, that blizzard had no part in (aside from the obvious production of the original game), and some of those fans that did the making are working on the sequel, I'd say valve are well withing their rights to call it DOTA 2.

But oh well, lawyers will be lawyers.

 

[linwolf]

snip

Why do nobody read the case Blizzard aren't trying to stop Valve in making DotA 2, nor are they trying to take DotA as there own. They are trying to stop Valve from being the only one that can make use the name DotA. Icefrog didn't make DotA, He is just the current developer of the Allstar version that is by far me most popular, but that wasn't made by him either it was made by a guy name Freak that now works for Riot and Icefrog took over after him. I don't see why it is all right for Valve to get eksklusive right to use the name DotA.

I think this is stupid. Blizzard has stolen every idea in their existence. From Warcraft to Starcraft, it's all stolen ideas. Just look at the entire first expansion of WoW. Stolen STRAIGHT from Jim Henson's the Dark Crystal. Look at Starcraft. The entire lore is even stolen from Warhammer 40K. Zerg=Tyranids, Space Marines=Space Marines, Protoss=Eldar, it goes on and on. Blizzard has always been the laziest content producers in the game market, and yet always the first to cry foul as well.

And stop with stupid argument between Starcraft and warhammer 40k, read Starship Troppers and a lot of other scifi from that time period and know that they are both rip-off of thing that came before.

 

[Freechoice]

I think this is stupid. Blizzard has stolen every idea in their existence. From Warcraft to Starcraft, it's all stolen ideas. Just look at the entire first expansion of WoW. Stolen STRAIGHT from Jim Henson's the Dark Crystal. Look at Starcraft. The entire lore is even stolen from Warhammer 40K. Zerg=Tyranids, Space Marines=Space Marines, Protoss=Eldar, it goes on and on. Blizzard has always been the laziest content producers in the game market, and yet always the first to cry foul as well.

Can you name any single Valve game save for Half Life that wasn't a mod or the original idea of someone else?

 

[Bradeck]

I think this is stupid. Blizzard has stolen every idea in their existence. From Warcraft to Starcraft, it's all stolen ideas. Just look at the entire first expansion of WoW. Stolen STRAIGHT from Jim Henson's the Dark Crystal. Look at Starcraft. The entire lore is even stolen from Warhammer 40K. Zerg=Tyranids, Space Marines=Space Marines, Protoss=Eldar, it goes on and on. Blizzard has always been the laziest content producers in the game market, and yet always the first to cry foul as well.

Can you name any single Valve game save for Half Life that wasn't a mod or the original idea of someone else?

Theme, Genre, that's different from stealing the entire thesis and lore verbatim from something else. In the Outlands, there is a race of bird people called the Skettis. They look exactly like, talk exactly like, and even move exactly like the Skek'sis, a race of bird like people from Dark Crystal. Then you have the Silt Striders, which look and act exactly like Farstriders, again, from Dark Crystal.

Honestly, look up the Blizzard lore about the Dragoon, and then look up the unit lore of a Dreadnaught from 40K. Both mention when an X warriors body has died, they are encased in a machine called an X, where their consciousness may live on to fight their enemies.

I don't begrudge anyone have a game where humans fight orcs, or goblins, or evles, or fairies, or dragons. It's all standard fantasy lore. But when you take models from someone elses game, or you take the ideas from Jim Henson, that pisses me off. You can't claim "It's all been done before" if it's an exact copy.

 

[Vigormortis]

I think this is stupid. Blizzard has stolen every idea in their existence. From Warcraft to Starcraft, it's all stolen ideas. Just look at the entire first expansion of WoW. Stolen STRAIGHT from Jim Henson's the Dark Crystal. Look at Starcraft. The entire lore is even stolen from Warhammer 40K. Zerg=Tyranids, Space Marines=Space Marines, Protoss=Eldar, it goes on and on. Blizzard has always been the laziest content producers in the game market, and yet always the first to cry foul as well.

Can you name any single Valve game save for Half Life that wasn't a mod or the original idea of someone else?

There's a difference between stealing someone's idea for your own product, and hiring the people behind an idea to make a new version of it.

Blizzard just tends to take others ideas, changes names and (some) art assets, and then put out the game.

Valve hires the people with the new ideas and gives them the assets to make the best version of their idea that they can.

It's like Team Fortress. The original Team Fortress was created as a Quake mod. It had a somewhat lengthy history as a quake mode before it moved to Half-Life with TFC. Yet, you never heard about id Software getting all (to use an internet vernacular) "butthurt" over Valve trademarking the name Team Fortress. Even though, until then, people associated Team Fortress with a Quake mod.

And do you know why? Because id had no claim to it. They had no rights to the name and, quite frankly, had no reason to bank on it nor fear brand confusion.

The EXACT same thing applies to Blizzard with DOTA. Their case is tenuous at best and, quite frankly, is all but completely baseless. The only reason they're doing this now is because they want to (finally) bank on the MOBA/DOTA trend with their own. (And let's face it, Blizzard DOTA as a Starcraft 2 mod is just a rushed, lazy way of getting something to market to compete with Dota2)

To put it simply, Blizzard is trying, and in my eyes failing, to play the "sympathetic to the community" card while they, in fact, would probably be trying to trademark the name themselves if Valve hadn't beaten them to it.

This whole affair screams of corporate BS to me. What is with the current trend of big-name publishers actively bashing and lambasting Valve? What, are the big boys of the playground afraid of the success of the feisty, little guy? First it's EA laying into them over Origin, now it's Acti-Blizz over the name DOTA.

Doesn't the WC3 EULA state that Blizzard owns all user generated content? I feel like this is pretty open and shut.

Yes it does, that's something that most people here seem to ignore... Blizzard could very well win this one. If they don't then it could potentially set damaging precedents to modding communities.

If I made a programming tool or language that is so good that everyone wants to use it, but then I add in the terms of agreement that I own all content created by it, does that make it right? What you're saying isn't untrue, but it's wrong. Developers should promote modding because it greatly benefits themselves, their sales and many other factors. Just look at how much WC3 has sold thanks to DOTA. But individual people shouldn't have to sign over their creative right to create things just because the devs say so. If anything, isn't that a damaging precedent to modding communities? Someone who creates a really good set of quests for Skyrim, with really good story, should be given reasons to withhold that in case they want to do something else with it in the future, instead of releasing it for the community?

Copyright and Trademark laws are retarded and need to get with the program. And in this individual case, I will quote a friend of mine:

"Blizzard has copyright through the editor for everything players create in it. But that map's name is 'Defence of the Ancients". Not Dota. Unless they also claim that they own abbreviations."

Which reminds me, Dota 2 is actually written like that = No abbreviation. It's a name. And I think I'm gonna play it now...

The EULA can state whatever it wants, that doesn't magically mean that they actually own content that was created by the community (though they might). The fact is, no one has ever really challenged the copyright ownership of mods in court (that I know of) so we don't really know. Are mods a derivative work, since they use the game engine? A judge might look at the game engine as just a tool, like Photoshop, and rule that anything created with it belongs to the creator.

This is potentially the case that will clarify it once and for all.

Indeed, I share your thoughts and your interest in seeing how this plays out.

Also, this. A company that allows the community to create mods and custom content for their games is within their right to lay claim to the use of any assets in those mods or content. So long as it's something THEY made. If the assets in question were made by the community, the developer of the game has no real claim to those assets unless they specifically force the modders to sign a licensing agreement of some kind.

Again, Blizzard is full of shit with this case and, frankly, I hope it comes back to bite them in the ass. (though, it won't. the only companies people defend more blindly then Valve are Bethesda and Blizzard)

 

[eventhorizon525]

Somehow people keep glossing over the fact Blizzard is just stopping Valve from grabbing the trademark solely, which is perfectly reasonable all things considered. I honestly think Blizzard should win *this* one legally. However, should they then follow up a victory in this court with trying to get their own trademark of DOTA, then I'm a lot less supportive of all of this (though unfortunately that has a very real chance of happening).

 

[Vigormortis]

Excellent post! Now I don't have to write one like that, and frankly, I think you said it better than I could. Especially the example with TF, spot on there. I forgot about the fact that it actually used to be a QUAKE mod.

Seems to me corporations everywhere, in different industries, are developing a court-fetish or something. They just love to take each other there!

But my response to everything you said is just simply "Amen".

What gets me the most is, Valve actually hired IceFrog and let him go about doing whatever project he wanted. He chose Dota 2.

Blizzard DOTA is nothing more than Blizzard banking (as is Valve, really. there's no denying that) on the popular MOBA trend. They don't have any of the original creators or community modders who worked on DOTA, in ANY of it's numerous iterations, working for them or working on Blizzard DOTA. It's purely them taking someone's idea and banking on it.

Yet you'll see so many players siding with Blizzard over this. All the while screaming about the "corporate greediness" of Valve. I think these people need to read this: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

Seriously people, you've got two options in this whole debacle. Either side with Valve and admit to Blizzards bullshit, or call both companies out for banking on a community made and maintained idea. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Honestly, I can imagine Activision chiefs talking among themselves:
"Do they hate us?"
"Yes, they do, they really do!"
"Wait, they don't hate Blizzard, and they are a part of us!"
"Unacceptable!"
"Indeed. They are even fond of Blizzard. Blizz is giving them Pandas and Diablo 3."
"No, that can NOT stand! Blizz will need to do something about this! Options?"
"Well, it's drown kittens on Youtube or sue Valve, nothing else will piss people enough..."
"Kittens are cute, but people love Valve more. Sue Valve! Issue the edict!"
"As you command!!!"

as i read this, i pictured a group of Sith Lords, with an apprentice running off at 'as you command' XD

OT: I'm hard pressed to care, since, I'm not even sure what DOTA is exactly ....

 

[Varil]

I'm not sure on the legal side of things, on account of most laws around things like trademark and copyright being straight-up stupid and over-complicated, but I'm on Valve's side here just because it took Blizzard so damn long to do anything about it. If you're going to start a fight over trademark/copyright crap, at least do it when the "problem" is new.

 

[linwolf]

snip

But the thing is that Blizzard isn't trying to take control over DotA, they just don't want Valve to have exclusive rights to it, and Icefrog wasn't the original creator so even though he have made it was it is today. I do not feel it give him it sole right to the name either.

To put it simply, Blizzard is trying, and in my eyes failing, to play the "sympathetic to the community" card while they, in fact, would probably be trying to trademark the name themselves if Valve hadn't beaten them to it.

The fact that they first move on it now shows that they didn't feel they should take the trademark from the creators but will only protect it from others getting taking it.

Let Valve make DotA 2, let them call it DOTA 2, just don't give the trademark to make them the only ones that can use the name.

 

[GoaThief]

Anyone claiming Blizzard are doing this for altruistic reasons are either extremely naive or disingenuous.

I can only hope a precedent won't be set if Blizzard win, it would be very bad for PC gaming.

 

[Vigormortis]

snip

But the thing is that Blizzard isn't trying to take control over DotA, they just don't want Valve to have exclusive rights to it, and Icefrog wasn't the original creator so even though he have made it was it is today. I do not feel it give him it sole right to the name either.

To put it simply, Blizzard is trying, and in my eyes failing, to play the "sympathetic to the community" card while they, in fact, would probably be trying to trademark the name themselves if Valve hadn't beaten them to it.

The fact that they first move on it now shows that they didn't feel they should take the trademark from the creators but will only protect it from others getting taking it.

Let Valve make DotA 2, let them call it DOTA 2, just don't give the trademark to make them the only ones that can use the name.

I can all but guarantee you that Blizzard will try to take over the name if they win this case. Of course they aren't laying claim to it with this particular case, but that's only because...well..."one problem at a time". First they keep Valve from trademarking it, then they swoop in and trademark it themselves.

This whole thing is simple to understand. Blizzard, for years, was banking off of the work and success of the modders making Dota. They thought, since it was a Warcraft 3 mod, they could keep profiting off of it without having to actively spend time and money hiring or licensing the property for their own internal use. I.E. They were lazy and complacent.

Then, along comes Valve, who then hires the guy who, arguably, put the most time and effort into the mod. They give him the tools and assets needed to make the game as he truly intended. Thus, Dota 2 is born.

Suddenly, Acti-Blizz realizes it's dropped the ball. They're going to lose one of their 'cash cows'. They had every opportunity to make Dota their own. They could have done more to support it. Helped fund it. Hired the creators. What have you. But they didn't. They were content to just sit back and bask in the influx of cash the modders were freely providing them.

Now, they're sore over this realization. They don't want to lose that money maker. So what do they do? They hastily slap together their own "dota" game, in the form of a Starcraft 2 mod, and then start what I'm sure is going to be a lengthy smear campaign against Valve. Kicked off by this, and let's face it here, frivolous trademarking case.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending Valve. They could very easily change the name. And honestly, part of me thinks they should as I believe the name, or rather the acronym, should stay with the community. However, I have to call Blizzard out on this bullshit. There's no altruism in play here. It's all corporate shenanigans.

 

[Innegativeion]

I'm surprised it's taken them this long.

I think Valve are in the wrong this time. DOTA is a Warcraft mod, and has no link to anything Valve has ever originated. If anyone has a claim on the name it's Blizzard.

This. Making a mod for a game doesn't change that the fact that you're playing that game, so DOTA is essentially just a different way of playing Warcraft 3. If I made a mod for Skyrim called "Skyrim ball" which let you play football or something in the game, does that mean I could release a new game called "Skyrim Ball 2" without consquences? Maybe if it contained just the "football" gameplay and not any of the original IP, but DOTA 2 is just that...a MOBA with the IP that existed in DOTA.

I've been playing the the Dota beta, and I'm going to clear this up:

DOTA 2 contains NO material Blizzard could conceivably claim as their IP. All character bios, names, descriptions, abilities, locations, etc. etc. have been completely rebuilt from the ground up to reflect the IP Icefrog created within his allstars version of DoTA.

Characters based upon Blizzard IP (leoric the skeleton king or the nerubian weaver, for example) have been re-named and redesigned completely.


The issue is brand recognition, not the actual content itself.

Personally, I don't think Blizzard should be suing over fan-created content. That just seems... underhanded.


ALSO Blizzard's claim seems to hinge on the assumption that they own the word "ancients" and that it cannot possibly be taken to mean anything but the characters within their warcraft IP.