Blizzard is suing hackers

[Gindil]

...

It just clicked...

This entire thing has come about because of that 9th circuit decision to not honor the First Sale Doctrine for Software...

Wow, it didn't even take six months like I predicted...

 

[Malgan]

If you made a sandcastle, and someone started to stomp on it for fun, wouldn't you be mad?

 

[Arehexes]

I dissagree with your notion that there is something wrong with Blizzard doing this.
1) They are protecting the online experience for the vast majority of users.
2) They are fully within thier rights to protect thier product.
3) There is a disclaimer you must accept before playing the game outlining what you can and cannot do with the game...so these people, in effect, said "yes, I will follow the rules" as they were breaking them...cant really feel sorry for em.

In respons to Arehexes' comment about Nintendo and the Game Genie and certain console games, there is a big difference between hacking single player and hacking multiplayer online. One affects only you, the other affects other players whether they cheat or not. To use a metaphore, it is the difference between masturbation and rape: Both are deviations of the basic principle, but in one you only screw with yourself, the other is screwing someone else... I dont know of many cases of masturbation that go to court, but I do know rape tends to. Refer back to "1)"


I just know that tortured metaphore is going to the the quote everyone takes from my post, but what the hell. Hopefully the point wont be lost at least.

But the relevance of my bringing it up is that blizzard is claiming copy right protection issues on these hacks which is quoted FROM THE SOURCE of TC's news page

"The three men - "Permaphrost," "Cranix," and "Linuxawesome" - are being accused of "multiple counts of copyright infringement", with Blizzard seeking not just damages but also a cut of the money the three received selling the hacks. The first two are from Canada, the third, Peru."

If you are suing because of the the multiplayer being ruined then sue for that, don't hide behind that blanket of copy right infringement to get your way. And a guy was arrested and found guilty for being nude in his own house (and someone walking on the side walk saw him). So how does that fir the metaphor?

 

[Arehexes]

The problem is they were SELLING hacks to be used online.

No excuse people. NONE.

If you wanna cheat in single player, you can use cheats built in. They disable achievements, but you get your hollow victory. If you wanna make a custom map (basically modding) the editor has it all there for you.

If you wanna cheat online, you get no sympathy from me.

Ok so the sticking point here seems to be SELLING. So once again I ask a genuine question (no rants about strat guides please).

Is it also illegal to SELL an unauthorized strat guide?

Also, the trainer was for single player use, was it not?

WHY do you need it for single player? What can a trainer do that the editor + built in Blizzard cheats can't?

Also, these cheaters are lying. They were gonna use it for multiplayer soon enough. They just don't wanna admit Blizzard caught them in the act.

By the way, yes, it should be illegal to sell unathorized strat guides. If you were to GIVE them away though, then that's fine. But if someone works hard to make a guide and they go through the trouble of making it official, then they deserve a cut of profit.

Are you serious?

You honestly don't see the benefit of using unauthorized cheat codes instead of authorized ones? I can't speak for this trainer but I can tell you that the Game Genie always allowed you to do more than any ingame cheat code. I don't see why this would be any different.

Those cheaters are lying? Holy shit, maybe you should market this ability to tell if someone is lying, even when you aren't in the same room with them. Ya know, I have no interest in online play but sometimes I use a cheat device. Am I lying?

Should it really be illegal to sell unauthorized strat guides? You just don't like choice much do you? Use only approved cheats, only approved guides, do you also only use approved (first party) parts in your car? How about controllers, ever used a non first party controller?

The reason I dislike Game Genie, third party controllers and unofficial strat guides is because you have to pay them, and they don't even give you the same quality as the official stuff.

I've been ripped off alot, and i feel these people who make such inferior quality garbage get no sympathy from me when they're eventually sued for making such blatant knockoffs.

And I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be using ANY third party software for Starcraft 2. There's no excuse. If you wanna hack and mod a game, there are a hundred others out there. Stop trying to force every game to fit your standards.

That's just what I feel anyway.

Also, to those people saying you should be able to cheat in single player, then that sounds just pathetic. You're only saying that because yyou want achievements. Well, tough luck. You have to get them the same way everyone else did, by actually playing the game.

You say stop trying to force every game to fit your standards but your doing that to use. You not wanting us to mod our games is saying follow my way of playing. And I bought official guides and they are not worth it, unofficial stuff on gamefaqs and forums are more helpful(lost odyssey is a example). And that last line where you said we have to get them the same way everyone else gets them, that's forcing your standard on how we should play OUR GAMES. Please explain to me how hacking forces our standard on you but telling us how to play is not?

 

[Arehexes]

Those of you who mentioned "modding" as a traditional past time, does that make it right? Modding is hacking, which isn't legal.

Without modding valve wouldn't have team fortress or counter strike, without modding we wouldn't have fixes for buggy PC games (like TES4 and Oblivion). Without hacking we wouldn't have known about hot coffee and Rock Star lying about it. Hacking is not just about stealing, most hackers do it to learn how things work and build from that. It's kinda said people now say modding/hacking==stealing, when those things gives us so much.

 

[Arehexes]

By the way anti modders out there this is a mod that is worth noting

http://www.moddb.com/mods/stalker-complete-2009

See what he did, he took a game and made it look much better with new graphics and a few gameplay fixes. See now if you own Stalker and you are against modding then I hope you don't want to try this bad boy out haha.

 

[soilent]

I think that saying these particular cheats "Destroy the SC2 experience" is a bit melodramatic, but otherwise, I don't see any problem with this lawsuit. Serves 'em right.

Considering the fact that a certain country's national sport is Starcraft, Blizzard has a bit of interest in keeping it fair.

 

[Arehexes]

I think that saying these particular cheats "Destroy the SC2 experience" is a bit melodramatic, but otherwise, I don't see any problem with this lawsuit. Serves 'em right.

Considering the fact that a certain country's national sport is Starcraft, Blizzard has a bit of interest in keeping it fair.

You figure if it's a sport, blizzard would make a server just for that were everything is more regulated . Cause I know at a pokemon event nintendo has you scan your game for hacks and if it finds one (i know how to beat the thingy it's not hard) they ban you.

 

[Gindil]

I think that saying these particular cheats "Destroy the SC2 experience" is a bit melodramatic, but otherwise, I don't see any problem with this lawsuit. Serves 'em right.

Considering the fact that a certain country's national sport is Starcraft, Blizzard has a bit of interest in keeping it fair.

The rules for that sport are obscene though...

 

[Slash12]

I use trainers and make mods for my PC games. It's the only reason I buy PC games. What I do alone on my computer with like minded individuals is my own goddamned business. If I have no intention of going online or cheating online, leave me the hell alone. Nothing I do affects your enjoyment of the game.

I'm a modder, and damned proud of it. I also use trainers in single player, proud of that, too. no matter what a gaming company does, us modders and cheaters won't go away. If they start trying to force me to be connected to the internet to play the game to keep me from modding or using trainers, i'll just contact the pirates and get a crack that bypasses it.

Punishing players that did nothing to ruin anyone else's experience will just push people to an easier path. (Read: Piracy)

That said, If these people were making multiplayer trainers or modifications and selling them, yes it's wrong. Should they be punished? Absolutely. Do I think they should have their entire lives destroyed because of it? Absolutely not.

Exactly what he said pretty much. Modding is an amazing part of the PC community, and if it gets destroyed PC gaming will be taking a huge hit IMO. Also, its a fucking game. I can't believe so many people want to see 3 guys lives destroyed because they helped some people get different pictures for their accounts, get over yourselves.

 

[Motiv_]

I think that saying these particular cheats "Destroy the SC2 experience" is a bit melodramatic, but otherwise, I don't see any problem with this lawsuit. Serves 'em right.

Considering the fact that a certain country's national sport is Starcraft, Blizzard has a bit of interest in keeping it fair.

Well of course. I'm not saying I disagree with Blizzard's decision or anything of that sort. But their statement that it "Destroys the SC2 experience" when someone unlocks an avatar that isn't theirs for the taking, is sort of like being shot with a paintball gun and then having the guy who shot you arrested and charged with attempted murder. At least in my humble opinion.

I don't disagree with their measures taken, I'm just saying that particular statement stuck out for me as a bit melodramatic.

 

[demoman_chaos]

Selling bad, for free isn't. If no profit is made, then there is no law saying it cannot be done (note all the parody videos on the internet). If profit is made, compensation must be made to the original creator.

I always love it when big companies sue individual people (most usually middle-class or below) for millions of dollars to "set an example" over little things like this.

So, unauthorized strat guides are illegal?

I've looked online and so far I see no case of a publisher being sued for this.

Strategy guides don't use or modify game files so they are perfectly fine (and very often required).

 

[Aethren]

I love how the people supporting hacks are trying to justify their positions by comparing them to mods made by the in-game engine. Mods don't tamper with the game codes guys, they just rearrange them. Hacks, however, do.

I'm not even a Blizzard fan, I hate WoW (though love WC3), but I think these bastards should have their lives ruined. It's called consequences, boys and girls. They willingly entered into something illegal that they knew could screw them royally if they got caught. They were stupid enough to sell their product and got caught.

TL;DR - Mods are not hacks, get over yourselves.

 

[Gindil]

I love how the people supporting hacks are trying to justify their positions by comparing them to mods made by the in-game engine. Mods don't tamper with the game codes guys, they just rearrange them. Hacks, however, do.

I'm not even a Blizzard fan, I hate WoW (though love WC3), but I think these bastards should have their lives ruined. It's called consequences, boys and girls. They willingly entered into something illegal that they knew could screw them royally if they got caught. They were stupid enough to sell their product and got caught.

TL;DR - Mods are not hacks, get over yourselves.

...

Have their lives ruined...

By being sued by a multibillion dollar corporation...

That's not even based in their countries of residence?

Top that off with different laws on copyright, and that this is for entertainment purposes, and you don't think this is a little egregious?

 

[pretentiousname01]

My problem with this comes from the selling of the hacks.

Someone else trying to make money off my product, thats where I have an issue.

 

[BigEaZyE]

Hackers getting what they deserve.

Someday the gaming generation will finally get it through their heads that they need to and will be held responsible for their actions, and realise that they might want to think a little harder about their decisions.

 

[WanderingFool]

I read the OP, and I dont see a problem here...

 

[HandsomeJack]

I dissagree with your notion that there is something wrong with Blizzard doing this.
1) They are protecting the online experience for the vast majority of users.
2) They are fully within thier rights to protect thier product.
3) There is a disclaimer you must accept before playing the game outlining what you can and cannot do with the game...so these people, in effect, said "yes, I will follow the rules" as they were breaking them...cant really feel sorry for em.

In respons to Arehexes' comment about Nintendo and the Game Genie and certain console games, there is a big difference between hacking single player and hacking multiplayer online. One affects only you, the other affects other players whether they cheat or not. To use a metaphore, it is the difference between masturbation and rape: Both are deviations of the basic principle, but in one you only screw with yourself, the other is screwing someone else... I dont know of many cases of masturbation that go to court, but I do know rape tends to. Refer back to "1)"


I just know that tortured metaphore is going to the the quote everyone takes from my post, but what the hell. Hopefully the point wont be lost at least.

But the relevance of my bringing it up is that blizzard is claiming copy right protection issues on these hacks which is quoted FROM THE SOURCE of TC's news page

"The three men - "Permaphrost," "Cranix," and "Linuxawesome" - are being accused of "multiple counts of copyright infringement", with Blizzard seeking not just damages but also a cut of the money the three received selling the hacks. The first two are from Canada, the third, Peru."

If you are suing because of the the multiplayer being ruined then sue for that, don't hide behind that blanket of copy right infringement to get your way. And a guy was arrested and found guilty for being nude in his own house (and someone walking on the side walk saw him). So how does that fir the metaphor?

The metaphore wasnt the point, but I knew you'd argue it so I may as well response to how your new data fits into it: ...after the rape they found pot in his car during the arrest. Translation: One area's law about nudity had nothing to do with Blizzard suing over hacking, debate that elsewhere. The state he was in when arrested is beyond blaming them for. As for the "sue because of ruining multi-player," you dont sue for consequences, you sue for actions that lead to those consequences (That is the Guilty/Not Guilty aspect of the law), ruining multi-player and thus hurting thier product (and ultimately thier sales) would constistute the damages (which determines fines/jail time/other punitive actions. Moreover, thier countries of origin have little to do with this if Blizzard's copyrights are international (which I believe they are if they provide server coverage to multiple countries).

To put a cherry on the top, in reguards to one of the accused being nude in his home and charged, many places, including here in the United States (where I reside) have "Indecent Exposure" laws, largely to protect minors. These laws vary in degree and detail, but one that is common is the "plain sight" clause. This means that exposing yourself in plain sight of the public, even in one's home, the exposure is "public." Close your blinds and you'll be fine.