Blizzard Squeezes $88 Million From Private Server Owner

[Delusibeta]

Right then. The lawsuit lasted a year, a year's worth of WoW is $180. Blizzard can prove that during that time, about 450,000 people played on the server, so assuming all of them played the whole 12 months, that's $81 million in potential lost revenue. I realise that the old downloaded copy != lost sale arguement still applies, and it's assuming that all of the people played for the whole year, but considering the defendant didn't turn up, the court decided to run with the figures, and include the 3 million PayPal confirmed that was given to her during the lawsuit period.

Ultimately, the only way to get the server files out of the company is theft. Therefore, Blizzard (and any other pay-for MMO developer) would be entitled to chase after private servers because they stole from them. Piracy doesn't really come into it, since it's not the end user of the server who is getting sued (and you'll probably still need the client software from somewhere to run the game).

 

[OneOfNone]

TL;DR version.

The thing is, she got slapped with the max amount because She did not even show up in court.
In fact, she didnt show up at any of the summons, not the trial. nothing. The silly did not show up to defend her self. at all.

Now look back up to what Delusibeta is saying.

Oh and as far as i've been able to find out.. her servers are STILL running. If they are, that fine may be the least of her worries.

 

[Aurgelmir]

Sure, private servers are illegal, but taking in consideration that WoW has 11.5 million people playing it on the official servers, I wonder why they are starting to attack private servers.

You kind of answered your own question. They want to make sure they keep those 11.5 million paying subscribers.

The fact that this private server made over $3 million proves that people hate Blizzard enough that they would give someone else their money rather than them.

And this is the reason that the court did fine her this much money.

She was MAKING MONEY off a product she had no right to be making money off.

And the reason why people pay money to her and blizzard is because private servers usually let you cheat the game in one way or another. It has nothing to do with people hating blizzard AT ALL.

All in all she got what she deserved. Private servers are just like pirate copying, and it becomes a big deal if you start making money off products you do not own the distribution rights to.

Also shutting down private servers doesn't hurt the honest consumer, so should be really feel bad for this lady? She is an economical criminal after all.

 

[RobCoxxy]

Not to seem like "That guy" but for an average person with $88mil debts, it's easier to reach for a handgun and put it in your mouth than pay that off.

 

[NSGrendel]

IN Soviet Blizzard, Kotick serves YOUR privates.

Protip: Kotick doesn't run Blizzard, mate.

Robert A. Kotick
Director; President and Chief Executive Officer of Activision Blizzard. Mr. Kotick has been a member of the board of directors and Chief Executive Officer of Activision Blizzard since February 1991 and was our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer from 1991 until July 2008, when the transaction with Vivendi Games was consummated.


From - http://www.activisionblizzard.com/corp/ml/corpGovern/boardOfDirectors.html

Any more "protips", Mr Wendel?

 

[Spinozaad]

Haha. I love the comments here.

When the music industry sues a housewife 133 thousand dollars a song, they're evil. When Blizzard does it, it's suddenly 'harsh but justified'.

You have to love hypocrisy.

This alone should be a reason to boycot Blizzard and all of its products, but the slaving addicts won't even consider such a thing, of course.

 

[matt87_50]

whats the matter blizzard? strapped for cash??? ...

worst type of people... period.

and my favorite games in the world are blizzard RTSs

if this is just some random individual, who will really be burdened with that massive debt for the rest of his/her life, this is an absolute travesty. I dare say I'd rather do prison time... this is pretty much a life sentence.

good to see Activision really rubbing off on you blizzard...

for the life of me I will never no WHY you did that...

in short:

"what happened to you blizzard. you used to be cool."

 

[Nukey]

Harsh, but Blizzard was well within their right to do so, and she did break the rules, so I don't see the issue with this.

 

[TiefBlau]

That she made a profit from this thing bars her from any sympathy in the courtroom. Not showing up makes things even worse. I'd feel sorry for her if not for those two things. It's still kind of a dick move on Blizzard's part to slap 88 million on her. I'd like to slap them with an 88 million dollar fine for popularizing subscription-based MMO's.

 

[Corvuus]

snip

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Really? How blind can you get? I want you to think about why, the 427 thousand people who played on the private server, did what they did. Do you really believe any more than 0.1% of those people would've played on Blizzard's WoW servers, were private servers not an option? There is a reason these exist, and that's because people don't want to pay. They won't suddenly start wanting to pay if there are no more private servers, they'll just move on to the next activity. No, these aren't your customers, and no, these aren't lost sales. The fact that people donated money for some items or whatever only proves that people approve more of this business model than Blizzard's.

My question still stands. Do you believe piracy is costing, let's say, the movie industry, trillions of dollars? Because it would certainly look like it if we glance at the numbers on some torrent sites and do one of these calculations.

Your question is complete irrelevant and serves to show how blind you are. Just read and think about "unfair business competition".

If it helps you to imagine it in terms of "real-world" product, think of it as the defendant went out and *stole* vegetables from farmers. She would then turn around and sell those vegetables at a fraction of what the real owners would sell them for. For example, if the farmers were charging 15 dollars and the defendant is charging 1-10 dollars (pay what you 'feel' like) then it is impossible for the *real* owners to compete in selling their own product since the defendant stole from them and is undercutting them. If the defendent didn't do such a crappy job on hosting/server (from what I hear about the scape server) then she probably would have had far more than 400,000 etc. people since she is offering 'equivalent' product for MUCH less.

Regardless of how you spin this, this is illegal. Just because it isn't a "real-world" product and it is a 'software/selling the game experience' doesn't make it a 'victimless crime' nor somehow make it more legal.

I personally couldn't careless about conversion or any other argument about 'loss of money' or what Blizzard should have made. That is the court's decision in awarding damage, etc. and it has NOTHING to do with Blizzard itself.

The undeniable facts are that the defendant screwed up and deserves a fine. The exact amount doesn't really matter since if she doesn't even bother to show up to court, what makes you think she will pay the fine and not just run away like the coward she is? Even a 'reasonable' fine of 10 mil, she'd still run and people could still argue it is unfair.

The only people who could be pissed at what happened are the actual people playing on wowscape and did donate money/buy microtransaction items. You 'think' it'd last forever and then bam, it is all gone. boo hoo.

Seriously, I think it would be REALLY hilarious if the court arbitrarily decided to seize IP addresses/records and then charge everyone who played wowscape like 100 bucks for their complicity in this. It would never happen, but still, the blind sense of entitlement (right to play a game for free?) is just amazing.

She had *zero* right to make a private WoW server and earn money from it. The players didn't have the right either.

The comments on blizzard fanboyism is pretty silly as well. Just ignore the name and copy and paste any other company/product and you will see how right the lawsuit is.

You love Halo, CoD, TF2, etc. etc. well, imagine if someone set up a private server, made 3 mil, competed with the company over the company's own product? Private servers which make ZERO money are one thing, what defendant did is totally different.

C

 

[Corvuus]

I would like proof that piracy has caused the gaming industry money. I've been studying "copyright infringement" for a long time and I can't tell how piracy affects the industry. Hell, the Government Accountability Office did a report on piracy and yet they can't tell all of the benefits. But they have found that there were some benefits that were positive such as sampling a product (in this case looking at a private vs Blizzard server) or deciding if a game is worth a longer investment. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone can pay $30 bucks a month for entertainment.

snip

I think you need to go back and study or study more thoroughly. Especially if it is somehow related to your career/job.

First off, you say (paraphrased) "government did a study and still can't tell the 'POSITIVE' benefits from piracy", followed by 'there are some benefits like 'trial period', conversion'.

At the beginning of your post though, you say you can't see how 'piracy affects the industry'.

This is a nice blatant contradiction of logic and that isn't even getting into the 'negative' part of piracy.

While the exact dollar amount, etc. is nebulous it is an incredible leap to say that Piracy does not cost the industry at *all*.

Ignoring all the real-life data that we have, etc. for a moment, consider this logic.

1. Let's assume that Pirates DO NOT cause a loss of business, etc. For this to be true, pirates must fall into one of the following categories.

1a. The pirate would have *NEVER* ever bought the game. So no loss of business.
1b. The pirate plays the game as a pirated 'trial' and then buys the game when they like it to support the company. No loss of business since they do buy it.

The above 2 is the main points for pirates not 'costing money' per se, there might be other c,d,e where it also doesn't cause loss of business. Regardless, if the pirate is someone who *would* have bought the game but didn't because "oh hey look, easy to pirate", then that is loss of business.

Unless you can *PROVE* to me that everyone who ever pirated a game falls into the 1a or 1b category (or 1c if it exists), then piracy causes loss of business.

Real-world data/statistics show the 'conversion' rate for demos, etc. and in the case of piracy conversions, it is probably a very small percent as well. So while the exact amount is nebulous, to claim no loss of sale or affect from piracy at all is silly.

----

Contrary to popular belief, people are not entitled to entertainment. It is not a need, it is not a 'right'. It is a privilege.

If you want to put this into 'perspective' taking a date to see a movie is approximately 20 bucks for the two tickets (coupons, student, buy concession stand, etc. can vary) for 2 hours-ish of movie entertainment (plus whatever you get out of time with your date). I don't play WoW but i hear it is 15 dollars a month ish and you get far more 'potential entertainment' beyond 2 hours for roughly the same amount of money.

If you can't afford WoW monthly fee and feel entitled to entertainment, then you probably also can't afford to go the movies once a month either and, if entitled to entertainment, will just pirate movies too.

C

 

[SnipErlite]

Maybe it's just like when they sentence people to 300+ years in jail. There is no way they are going to live that long, but it is worse than just 100 years...

Yeah this is true. And perhaps they did deserve a massive fine, but meh.

You should take into account that the money wasn't decided by Blizzard, they simply chose to take action again her, the rest was decided by the court.

Also the letter wouldn't have sent the same message and to be frank, this isn't at all different from pirating. Except its like pirating ALOT from one company. Now I don't take a huge stand against pirating as I don't consider any of the people I know to do it to be in any way immoral, but at the same time they should know what's coming if they get caught. Like I said before, the money seems far too excessive because, well because this essentially ruined her life I assume (Or rather, what her life was) but at the same time, its not like it came out of no where.

Ahh fair point....well the court decided to go overkill then. And I suppose they shouldn't've been doing it in the first place.

 

[Gindil]

I would like proof that piracy has caused the gaming industry money. I've been studying "copyright infringement" for a long time and I can't tell how piracy affects the industry. Hell, the Government Accountability Office did a report on piracy and yet they can't tell all of the benefits. But they have found that there were some benefits that were positive such as sampling a product (in this case looking at a private vs Blizzard server) or deciding if a game is worth a longer investment. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone can pay $30 bucks a month for entertainment.

snip

I think you need to go back and study or study more thoroughly. Especially if it is somehow related to your career/job.

First off, you say (paraphrased) "government did a study and still can't tell the 'POSITIVE' benefits from piracy", followed by 'there are some benefits like 'trial period', conversion'.

At the beginning of your post though, you say you can't see how 'piracy affects the industry'.

This is a nice blatant contradiction of logic and that isn't even getting into the 'negative' part of piracy.

While the exact dollar amount, etc. is nebulous it is an incredible leap to say that Piracy does not cost the industry at *all*.

Ignoring all the real-life data that we have, etc. for a moment, consider this logic.

1. Let's assume that Pirates DO NOT cause a loss of business, etc. For this to be true, pirates must fall into one of the following categories.

1a. The pirate would have *NEVER* ever bought the game. So no loss of business.
1b. The pirate plays the game as a pirated 'trial' and then buys the game when they like it to support the company. No loss of business since they do buy it.

The above 2 is the main points for pirates not 'costing money' per se, there might be other c,d,e where it also doesn't cause loss of business. Regardless, if the pirate is someone who *would* have bought the game but didn't because "oh hey look, easy to pirate", then that is loss of business.

Unless you can *PROVE* to me that everyone who ever pirated a game falls into the 1a or 1b category (or 1c if it exists), then piracy causes loss of business.

Real-world data/statistics show the 'conversion' rate for demos, etc. and in the case of piracy conversions, it is probably a very small percent as well. So while the exact amount is nebulous, to claim no loss of sale or affect from piracy at all is silly.

----

Contrary to popular belief, people are not entitled to entertainment. It is not a need, it is not a 'right'. It is a privilege.

If you want to put this into 'perspective' taking a date to see a movie is approximately 20 bucks for the two tickets (coupons, student, buy concession stand, etc. can vary) for 2 hours-ish of movie entertainment (plus whatever you get out of time with your date). I don't play WoW but i hear it is 15 dollars a month ish and you get far more 'potential entertainment' beyond 2 hours for roughly the same amount of money.

If you can't afford WoW monthly fee and feel entitled to entertainment, then you probably also can't afford to go the movies once a month either and, if entitled to entertainment, will just pirate movies too.

C

Your paraphrase misquoted me. I also asked you to, show me that industry, in this case Blizzard, is being harmed by private servers where people aren't going to pay for $15 a month. Let's also realize that little consumer surplus is being spent elsewhere.

I said that all of the benefits can't be figured out. That isn't a leap of logic, nor any type of dissonance on my part. It basically says that for all of the bad, there are some good things. I'll pull up the GAO Report [http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d10423.pdf] so you can read it at your leisure. There are a few significant things I'll get into here.

1) The industry makes up arbitrary numbers that have been debunked such as the OECD report

2) There are positive effects which people forget about such as sampling

3)If you look at industries through a wider lens (from software industry specifically to computer industry as a whole) you can see that most industries are much better off

Private servers first have to do unique things to get noticed in the great sea of games. They have a very specific niche that they fulfill in most regards that most people ignore or don't understand. You have a very specific group of people who like Warcraft but can't play on the official servers for whatever reason. The servers are usually going to lag behind Blizzard's official servers, that much is guaranteed. But what will happen is more of a community forms around those unofficial servers.

I've seen the same thing happen on other private servers in other games where I wasn't going to pay for the official server. There were quite a few things unique to the community such as hats with unique traits, special weapons, hell, even custom tools to use. The offical servers still had a sizeable amount of the audience by all means. It just didn't stop people from playing the game.

It's funny that you say people are not entitled to entertainment. By that same token, Blizzard isn't entitled to my paycheck. I choose what money I spend for my entertainment. I choose which bills I pay in a month. Obviously, for this server 400 people decided to join a free server. But I may stand incorrect on a point or two as someone has pointed out [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.225965-Blizzard-Squeezes-88-Million-From-Private-Server-Owner?page=13#7727170]. Still, the point that I've made earlier was the very fact that no one held a gun to these people's heads. No one forced them to join the server. And though her donation drive was shady, it was still people's choice to donate.

 

[Bagsworth]

To the people continuing to claim that these fines are insane:

427,000 users. $15/month. Period of 13 months. 427000(15*13) = 83,265,000. Blizzard's attorneys rounded up and made it a round $200 for each circumvention, therefore $85,400,000.

Disgorgement of $3,052,339, meaning profit taken directly from the operation of the illegal server. Statutory damages (in other words, a pre-calculated amount intended to be contested in court) of $85,478,600.

Defendant never appeared before the court, therefore she was charged with paying the statutory damages amount. The $85 million isn't money they are claiming to have had stolen, it's money that they feel they feel was lost via the private server. Statutory damages amounts tend to be contested in court, and the amount frequently gets worked down to within reason. The defendant's absence from the hearing damned any chance of working something out.

 

[Rhiehn]

Did anyone mention that she didn't show up to contest it, so Blizzard got what I would assume was the maximum they could reasonably explain to the judge, expecting to settle for much less, but since she didn't show up, they were awarded the 88 million, and again, it's irrelevant, the amount awarded had she showed up would have been beyond her ability to pay it, making the amount totally arbitrary. And yes, I do believe more than 0.1% of the people playing would have played on Blizzard's servers, certainly nowhere in the neighborhood of 100%, but enough that they could sue her for more than she could pay, which would result in her filing bankruptcy.

Yeah, I already said that I have no sympathy for this woman. She's not what I'm arguing for. My point is that the court (or the companies themselves? I've no idea how it works) set up these insane fines that escape any sense of reason or common sense.

Also, I agree that 0.1% chance of 'conversion' would be a little low, but to be quite honest now, I live among these people, and the chance is nowhere above 1%.

I think the fact that enough people were willing to pay for her to make 3 million dollars says that more people would pay for the real thing than you claim, because I doubt 4,000 people each payed over 700 dollars each, I think in this case, much more than 1% people would have payed normally, sense the reason for a lot of people playing was to get rare items without grinding. Of course, the main reason, as I see it, that Blizzard was awarded this much, is that they went into the courtroom asking for the highest they could reasonably hope for, expecting it to be significantly lowered, since obviously, no intelligent negotiator would start with the amount they think their item is actually worth. Piracy for music and movies is 't as big of a deal to be honest, because most of the profits are from theaters and concerts, If it were up to me, after movies left theaters, movies should be available for free download legally, as should music. I agree that piracy is not nearly as big of a deal as people make it, but no one should complain in this case.

 

[Xardas5]

Haha. I love the comments here.

When the music industry sues a housewife 133 thousand dollars a song, they're evil. When Blizzard does it, it's suddenly 'harsh but justified'.

You have to love hypocrisy.

This alone should be a reason to boycot Blizzard and all of its products, but the slaving addicts won't even consider such a thing, of course.

The problem with your statement is that the woman probably didnt make money re-selling the song she downloaded, because she probably didnt, the same thing here.
I dont think Blizzard people mind free servers that much, but the woman had microtransactions on her server and was making money on something that isnt hers

 

[Onionman]

Lol with your going to run a private server with microtransactions, you better live in China, Canada or somewhere where they don't give a shit.

Most of those "WOW" private servers don't use microtransactions though. They do the "fill out these surveys" or "vote for us on this gaming site" lol =p.

 

[Spinozaad]

Haha. I love the comments here.

When the music industry sues a housewife 133 thousand dollars a song, they're evil. When Blizzard does it, it's suddenly 'harsh but justified'.

You have to love hypocrisy.

This alone should be a reason to boycot Blizzard and all of its products, but the slaving addicts won't even consider such a thing, of course.

The problem with your statement is that the woman probably didnt make money re-selling the song she downloaded, because she probably didnt, the same thing here.
I dont think Blizzard people mind free servers that much, but the woman had microtransactions on her server and was making money on something that isnt hers

While that's indeed a minor difference, it doesn't detract from the comparison. The woman downloading 'cost' the Industry money. This woman, one way or another, also cost a company money. That she made money, as opposed to that 'poor housewife who just wanted some songs', is of little consequence. Both 'stole', if only, the Blizzard-woman only stole in a more profitable fashion.

The comparison still stands, and thus the hypocrisy remains standing as well.

 

[Corvuus]

I didn't misquote you. I paraphrased what you actually said in english. If it is a misquote, it is due to vagueness on your part. So read what you wrote without already knowing what you want to say in your mind.
---
I did show you that they are being harmed, if you consider them losing even a single dollar as being harmed. If you can't prove that all pirating/private servers are people who would have never even bought/played/gave business to blizzard, then blizzard is harmed by what they are doing, even if it is 'chump change'. It is really quite simple.
--
I don't think you fully understand your own post or mine. No one said that 'piracy' doesn't have potentially 'positive' affects in the sense that people can 'trial' a game and then buy it. It is 'nebulous' but it can and does happen. But to claim there is no "negative" affect from piracy at all is silly. And to claim that somehow piracy is good because "hey there are still maybe benefits we haven't figured out yet" is naive. It is like saying smoking is good because "there are probably some benefits we haven't figured out yet" while knowing that it is bad because it will reduce average lifespan/kill you.
----
Your private server argument is amusing but it is still flat out wrong. Sure, you can be interesting, unique, offer "4 times experience", better loot drops, etc. and sure you can do other things to advertise, get donations, etc.

The instant the defendant started micro-transactions, then they are wrong. It isn't a 'free private server for enjoyment' or anything else. It is for profit. So if you want to get a somewhat sub-par 'free experience' of a private server, then that is a choice. If someone wants to make money off of you, then it is illegal. You can think of it in terms of anime/manga downloads in relation to U.S./Japan copyright.

If you download/watch/read anime/manga that isn't copyrighted in the U.S. yet then it is 100% legal. Heck, even doing it after it is 'dubbed/ported/copyrighted' over is still a 'pirating' choice that alot of people make. However, EVERYONE (well, i'm assuming common sense) would know and say that it is wrong for someone to try to make profit off of translating and selling 'fansub/subbed work' etc. that isn't their own.

Hey! I translated naruto, bleach, etc., pay me money for it.

Donation to keep server running is one thing. Helping out is another, and supporting 'fan-translations', etc. .... But flat-out profiting is not acceptable in any sense in any media.

------

Of course Blizzard isn't entitled to your money. Your utilities aren't entitled to your money either. If you don't want to pay or use their service, then you don't have to.

But if you want to use it/enjoy it, then you are entitled to pay. Don't want electricity or internet? Don't pay for it. If you want it, pay up. If you want food, then pay for it. If you want entertainment in the form of clowns, las vegas shows, movies, free youtube-videos, etc. then you go for it.

No one is holding a gun to your head (or their head) and yeah, you can steal food, sneak into shows, and do whatever you want based on what you feel you deserve (entitled) to. Just don't be surprised when there are reprecussions based on the fact that it is blatantly illegal to steal which is what you would be doing.

---
I still don't understand your point of view. Does 400 thousand people doing something somehow make it right or make this an acceptable business practice? Are we supposed to care that there are people who may have, in good faith, donated money towards server cost without realizing it was 3 million + dollars being used in private fashion? That we should let the servers continue to honor their good faith? In an illegal contractual agreement?

I seriously don't see how you could have any training or study of law/copyright and yet believe that the defendant had the right to do what she did.

C