Borderlands 2: Am I Missing Something?

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Very grindy, not much story, pretty steep difficulty curve, enemy repetition ad nauseum, and sorry but the slight stat changes on essentially the same dozen or so guns is pretty underwhelming...

And now, back to an RPG with a much better gun combat system - Resonance of Fate.

Why are you playing Borderlands in a grindy fashion? There's no reason to grind in the game whatsoever unless you want certain rare drops (which you totally don't need).

Funny that all your complaints of Borderlands 2 are flaws of Resonance of Fate as well. Doing everything in Resonance of Fate is so much more grindy than Borderlands 2 and I platinumed RoF. RoF has like no story and the story that is there is worse than Borderlands 2; you know that thing that happens at the very start of the game (2 characters falling), that's never explained in the game (only hinted very vaguely at by talking to NPCs). RoF has enemy repetition as well, all the game's enemies can be beat with 1 of 2 strategies, you either scratch first or gauge break first, that's literally the only 2 strategies in RoF, Borderlands is actually more strategic. The only guns you get in RoF are SMGs and pistols, where's the shotguns, sniper rifles, etc.?

All of my friends were either horribly under or over leveled, so they were useless or kill-stealers. Yes, I know everyone gets the XP, but it's not very fun to sit back and do nothing while everyone else kills stuff.

Kill-stealing is actually bad in Borderlands and other people taking all the kills can actually get you killed because so many skills activate off kills that if some high level player is killing everything, your needed skills to survive aren't activating then (like the Siren's Kinetic Reflection for example).

I kinda liked playing this single player. Mostly because it was a vast improvement to that dry experience that was Borderlands 1. I dunno, it might just be your tastes.

Borderlands 2 is such a huge improvement. If it wasn't for my friends, I wouldn't have played Borderlands because the game starts out so bad as you can barely use your power at the start whereas in Borderlands 2 the power cooldowns start out so much lower that you can use your power very often even in the beginning.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The pretentions to "RPG" elements is what bugs me the most. There's zero roleplaying involved in it's miniscule amount of story.

Very few RPGs have actual role-playing in them. Almost every JRPG is not an RPG for example. When has Borderlands actually claimed to be an RPG? It's all about shooting shit up and it has pretty decent character building, but that's really as far as the RPG elements go. The character building is much better than Deus Ex HR for example, which really only has one build whereas each Borderlands' character has 3 core builds along with the ability to mix and match between the trees.

 

[Kyrian007]

The pretentions to "RPG" elements is what bugs me the most. There's zero roleplaying involved in it's miniscule amount of story.

Very few RPGs have actual role-playing in them. Almost every JRPG is not an RPG for example. When has Borderlands actually claimed to be an RPG? It's all about shooting shit up and it has pretty decent character building, but that's really as far as the RPG elements go. The character building is much better than Deus Ex HR for example, which really only has one build whereas each Borderlands' character has 3 core builds along with the ability to mix and match between the trees.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with liking BL. It has enough good points to keep it interesting for a little while, even long enough to make it worth the money if sameyshooting grindfest is your thing. But character building... it can be reduced completely to checklist by going online and finding the 2 effective builds for each character rather than spending about 10 minutes figuring out the exploits by yourself. Yeah, there aren't a lot of really good "lose yourself in the story" rpg's out there. But a good rule of thumb, can you select a perk or stat that has an effect in some way OUTSIDE of combat. Borderlands can't really claim that. Not that such a perk would be useful anyway, it's ALL combat. I'd have wasted a point on a perk allowing me to mark more than one quest at a time. There was an improvement over BL that 2 totally whiffed on.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

The pretentions to "RPG" elements is what bugs me the most. There's zero roleplaying involved in it's miniscule amount of story.

Very few RPGs have actual role-playing in them. Almost every JRPG is not an RPG for example. When has Borderlands actually claimed to be an RPG? It's all about shooting shit up and it has pretty decent character building, but that's really as far as the RPG elements go. The character building is much better than Deus Ex HR for example, which really only has one build whereas each Borderlands' character has 3 core builds along with the ability to mix and match between the trees.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with liking BL. It has enough good points to keep it interesting for a little while, even long enough to make it worth the money if sameyshooting grindfest is your thing. But character building... it can be reduced completely to checklist by going online and finding the 2 effective builds for each character rather than spending about 10 minutes figuring out the exploits by yourself. Yeah, there aren't a lot of really good "lose yourself in the story" rpg's out there. But a good rule of thumb, can you select a perk or stat that has an effect in some way OUTSIDE of combat. Borderlands can't really claim that. Not that such a perk would be useful anyway, it's ALL combat. I'd have wasted a point on a perk allowing me to mark more than one quest at a time. There was an improvement over BL that 2 totally whiffed on.

Can you think of any skills in Diablo or Torchlight that have an effect outside of combat? I really can't. Does that mean that they aren't good RPG's? Personally I've always thought that the term "RPG" was kind of dumb because you're really role-playing a character in any story based video game. Hell, Legend of Zelda is considered an "action RPG."

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well this is a dungeon crawl loot grinder also known as ARPG, much like Diablo/Torchlight but this time in FPS form.
So yes apart from the loot stuff everything comes second, the story is kinda there, combat is more of a way to show off the uber powerful loot and level design is enough to not bother you, and obviously plenty of party making options to get you through those rough loot grindy days.

Their problem is still being new to the game, while Diablo and Torchlight have made it a much smoother experience to grind for loot BL is still very new to it and does it rather poorly.

 

[Bertylicious]

The game is a loot pinata with some FPS mechanics. Personally I love it but it's not without its flaws, which others have mentioned, and this style of game is not for everyone.

 

[Malty Milk Whistle]

It's dumb, simple hugely enjoyable fun. I love it to pieces, although the basic premise (shoot guys in the face) can get repetitive, that's the same in almost every FPS ever, but the differing styles of the weapon companies keeps it semi fresh. It's entertaining, and Jack is probably the best villain I've ever seen. As for grind, I wouldn't say it's that at all, unless you count the hordes of bandits and robots that keep coming (but then again, if you're killing them all in the same way without any variation then that's your problem more than anything else) the new game plusses are a bore though, i'll grant you that. You love it or you feel indifferent towards it.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

It is Diablo with guns and from an FPS point of view. In the traditions of "Hack n' Slash", it's about the gameplay and the gear grind. The story is throwaway and about as interesting as the first game's. I like the atmosphere, particularly playing from the first person. It's immersive, helped by cell shaded graphics that age better and allow for a unique feeling aesthetic, despite being generic wasteland/sci-fi setting.

BL2 is not as good as the first game. It has some better features, such as trading, shared storage and what not. But the zones aren't as good, the gameplay not as enjoyable (probably because of the new classes and their signature powers), Claptrap has gone from amusing to outright obnoxious and annoying and it's just missing whatever spark the first game had. I thoroughly dislike the DLC/season pass bullshit gearbox pushed on us, it really did them no favours in my eyes.

The game has some nice features, but ultimately those features aren't in the gameplay department. It's a slightly above average game, around the 50-70% area. The only time it's really enjoyable is with friends and the unbalanced character classes sadly make some choices more valid than others. Maya for one isn't remotely close to how great Lilith was sadly and cannot compete with the others, at least up to the high 30s where we got to before getting bored.

 

[Kyrian007]

Can you think of any skills in Diablo or Torchlight that have an effect outside of combat? I really can't. Does that mean that they aren't good RPG's? Personally I've always thought that the term "RPG" was kind of dumb because you're really role-playing a character in any story based video game. Hell, Legend of Zelda is considered an "action RPG."

I can't comment on Torchlight, I've never played it. I heard it was similar to Diablo and so never bothered because I never really liked Diablo except when my friends and I could LAN. But yes, Diablo has as little character development and story as Borderlands and 2. It has checklist 1 or 2 builds for each pre-made character... just like Borderlands. Easy exploits you're forced to use... Yeah just like Borderlands. The original Deus Ex married FPS and RPG elements right. Plenty of non-combat abilities you could use. Heck, a full on shooter like Bioshock has more diverse character building elements than Borderlands.

So it's not my (or the op I guess) "thing." Truthfully I'm not exactly a "chocolate and peanut butter" kind of guy when it comes to genre mixing. I feel it waters down elements. And when you do have to mix things I prefer RPG's that added FPS elements (like the later Fallout games) than the opposite (like Borderlands.) BL 2 just missed on a lot of improvement opportunities. You said it was about blowing stuff up... yet you can't. Other than a couple of vehicles in rare instances, mobs are the only things you can interact with in ANY way. And all you do with them is shoot them. No destructable terrain or structures, hazards are completely limited to instakill falls and turrets (and they are just like mobs, file them under "bullets only" as well.) Borderlands is a one-trick pony, "go and shoot something." And if that's what you want or like (like I said, to the average CoD player Borderlands would seem pretty fresh, open, and amazing) then it's just like a lot of shooters. I may just have standards too high, but I ask more from a game. Right now I'm going through Farcry 3 and frankly it's coming up short by my standards. I have not even tried co-op with that yet so maybe it will improve with MP (and booze.) Borderlands did.

 

[Lucyfer86]

It is Diablo with guns and from an FPS point of view. In the traditions of "Hack n' Slash", it's about the gameplay and the gear grind. The story is throwaway and about as interesting as the first game's. I like the atmosphere, particularly playing from the first person. It's immersive, helped by cell shaded graphics that age better and allow for a unique feeling aesthetic, despite being generic wasteland/sci-fi setting.

BL2 is not as good as the first game. It has some better features, such as trading, shared storage and what not. But the zones aren't as good, the gameplay not as enjoyable (probably because of the new classes and their signature powers), Claptrap has gone from amusing to outright obnoxious and annoying and it's just missing whatever spark the first game had. I thoroughly dislike the DLC/season pass bullshit gearbox pushed on us, it really did them no favours in my eyes.

The game has some nice features, but ultimately those features aren't in the gameplay department. It's a slightly above average game, around the 50-70% area. The only time it's really enjoyable is with friends and the unbalanced character classes sadly make some choices more valid than others. Maya for one isn't remotely close to how great Lilith was sadly and cannot compete with the others, at least up to the high 30s where we got to before getting bored.

Err what? How were first ones zones any better? They are were pretty much "this desert thing".
And if you think Maya can't compete with others, you're playing it wrong.

 

[kommando367]

The appeal is the enemy and weapon variety, the gore, and the looting.

If you're not looking for that sort of thing in a game, then it's not your kind of game.

Personally, it's my game of the decade, but it's just not for everyone.

 

[Harleykin]

i keep on reading "grindy" and i don't know if we all hear diffrent meanings behind this term?
shooting a lot of enemies ain't grindy!
grinding is when you got to lvl up in a FF game or yeah diablo2

at least that's my definition.

and from what i hear BL2 is a hit or miss thing. you either adore the humor and gunplay or you just feel kinda "meh, that's it?"

i love the heck out the game and i cleared singleplayer with zero wich was sometimes tough (no self healing ect) but i loved pretty much every minute of it.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I loved it, but it's a co-op game through and through.

It's not remotely "grindy".

i keep on reading "grindy" and i don't know if we all hear diffrent meanings behind this term? shooting a lot of enemies ain't grindy!

Yeah I know, right? "Grindy" has been ruined. Now "grindy" is doing anything more than once.

"I had to click my left mouse button AGAIN! Fuckin' grind!"

 

[anthony87]

I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally hate to give these kinds of answers but it sounds like you're just doing it wrong. There's no need to grind unless you want to kill a particular boss over and over for a legendary weapon, unless of course by "grind" you mean "do missions"? In which case...yeah.

Of course you're going to not know what's going on if you bounce around from co-op games that are at various different points in the story. The story is there and it's good, you're just missing it.

 

[Something Amyss]

I

But if not, is there an actual story here? I feel like the game is pretty hard if you go 1P to the point of it being unrewardingly steep

It's not hard, it's just not balanced well. Many boss battles are contingent on having the right weapon for the job. Given the procedural weapon creation, that means there's definitely what you called an MMO grind to it. With two or more players the game becomes significantly easier.

I don't think you're missing any mechanics, though. It's still a fun game.

 

[Milanezi]

Thoughts on this game?

Simply put, this is a genuine case of a "love it or hate it" game... The story is very weak boiling down to "there's an evil mega-corporation, you are a mercenary who got cheated, go get them boy", the gems being that the mercenaries from the first game are NPCs of importance now.

I mostly play it single player, and I've played it multiplayer, difficulty-wise it's the same thing, since the enemies get stronger the more players join you, on the other hand so do the spoils of war get better.

In the end: give it some time, get past the first few missions, if the crude humor didn't catch you, if the design isn't your thing, if the witty cartoonish characters don't please you... Then let it go, for me, those are the elements that keep me coming back to Borderlands 2.

If I may suggest: in case you're looking for a more serious tone of post-apocalyptic scenario, a much better story (though still mediocre...), and some jaw-dropping graphics, go for Rage. It's from the guys who made Doom and Quake, and it's basically all the hatred of those games with a post-apocalyptic setting, it's an old-school shooter with a few twists to it (like car races, Mad Max style). Also, keep an eye out for both Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas, they are RPG's with a somber tone and some acid humor, the story though is pretty weak (more so in Fallout 3), but it's one of those games where the most fun is being "part of that universe", like most RPGs are (or were should be).

 

[hermes]

The story is Borderlands 2 is far better than the one in 1. The original campaign was mostly an excuse to go through the stages. 2 actually has interesting characters and decent (for a FPS) story.

But the story is not even in the top 3 reasons to play the game. If you are just playing it to kill time, you have to play it in co-op. The experience is a lot more challenging, chaotic and fun with more people around.

 

[The_Scrivener]

Thoughts on this game?

If I may suggest: in case you're looking for a more serious tone of post-apocalyptic scenario, a much better story (though still mediocre...), and some jaw-dropping graphics, go for Rage. It's from the guys who made Doom and Quake, and it's basically all the hatred of those games with a post-apocalyptic setting, it's an old-school shooter with a few twists to it (like car races, Mad Max style). Also, keep an eye out for both Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas, they are RPG's with a somber tone and some acid humor, the story though is pretty weak (more so in Fallout 3), but it's one of those games where the most fun is being "part of that universe", like most RPGs are (or were should be).

Yeah I'm a huge fan of Fallout. I suppose my tenets for a great game are:

-Narrative context
-Appropriate difficulty scaffolding/gameplay variety
-Sense of escapism
-Perceived inspiration from creators

BL2 shows what relative scale this is. I would argue that it has around 1.5 of these qualities while some say 0 and some say all 4.

 

[WoW Killer]

The only bit that goes a bit too far with the difficulty is Digistruct, and that's an optional DLC that's not even in the GotY edition. I say that because it's technically progression content, but it's extremely difficult to solo. Some of the raid bosses are hard to solo, sure, but those aren't necessary for progression so it doesn't matter as much. With it being 8 additional effective levels with new gear at each stage, that's the only part of the game I'd say was grindy; to get to OP3 you're going to want at least a few pieces of OP1 or OP2 gear, and this repeats each time you clear the run. The trick is knowing what the easy farms are.