Born gay, Chose to be gay, Can't it be both?

[ZephrC]

I was saying I can't make myself find males attractive? That was sort of a direct response to what you said.

...you said nothing of the sort. Look; http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.249028-Born-gay-Chose-to-be-gay-Cant-it-be-both?page=6#9191928

I say "being gay is about attraction" then you say "ummm.... (implying no) being gay is about attraction".

You didn't say anything about yourself. There was no direct response of any sort.

Hey, I know! Why don't you try reading the post you were relpying to when I said that to you again!

 

[Kagim]

Again, meandering hypotheticals in place of actually saying something. Why ask a relevant question when you can ask a rhetorical one, yadda yadda yadda.
Don't puff up your chest over how much of a genius you are. Your gene-elimination argument has attempted, and failed, to bring the thread off on a wild tangent. If your line of reasoning is building to anything, you might want to skip straight to the payoff.

It wasn't a line of reasoning, at the point i wrote that mostly interesting people were commenting and i thought maybe i could get some more gears turning. Since the people who were commenting at the time seemed to be thinking really in depth simply coming out and saying something seemed inappropriate, I wanted to get them really thinking about it, rather then just spitting out answers. I wasn't trying to send it off on a wild tangent, but build on its momentum based on responses i read.

I wasn't trying to puff up how much of a 'genius' I am. I thought it would be a good way to get a ball rolling. Instead people screamed Nazi.

I didn't want to say "Well if that's how you feel about it maybe your like Hitler and want to eliminate genes!" I was hoping to mostly maintain a neutral disposition.

However you seem pretty content and assuming I'm a stuck up asshole. So enjoy yourself.

 

[ZephrC]

Hey, I know! Why don't you try reading the post you were relpying to when I said that to you again!

Um, I did. I said we had a different opinion. Then I said something, and you replied, saying the same thing.

I still don't understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying that because you couldn't do it, it's not possible?

No, not that post. The one before it. The one I was replying to when I said that I couldn't find men attractive in the first place. The one that started this whole conversation.

 

[PhiMed]

The reason this argument takes on the color is does is because religious fundamentalists started it, using "it's a sinful choice" to persecute people. In reaction to that, gay rights activists have decided they're going to out-stupid the religious fundamentalists by saying "it's 100% inborn".

Anyone who espouses either viewpoint is pushing an agenda, fucking retarded, or both.

Citation please. Thrill and astonish me with your insight. Come along now, you clearly know the answer and have links to peer-reviewed studies that illustrate your point of view.

No?

Didn't think so.

Note - pointing out the difference between declarative statements and opinions.

Thanks for editing my post to minimize my point. Reported.

Edit - Also, a opinions are, by nature declarative. In fact, all statements are declarative. That's what makes them statements. Otherwise, they would be questions or commands.

If you're saying that my view that it's a complex association of factors is an opinion, I can back that up plenty. I can produce peer-reviewed articles that attest to environmental factors' influence on orientation, and I can cite peer-reviewed articles that focus on monozygotic and heterozygotic twins' orientations to put forth genetic and intrauterine factors as potentially causative.

But you didn't even include that portion of my argument. You just quoted the part where I made known my ditaste for both extremes.

No no no. You are stating a specific point that to take one side or the other is either "retarded or serves only to promote an agenda".

I was also expressing a difference between:

"I think OpinionXX"

and

"XX is the truth, full stop."

Do you honestly not see the difference?

And truncating a message, to emphasis a specific point (or indeed, to simply flag to another escapist user to hope to attract their attention back to a thread) is quite common. Some people simply quote and replace entire text with I usually prefer not to do so.

Also - citations if you please since you have them, I would be interested to see.

Yes, and the part that you cut out included the phrase "I think". You cut it out in order to argue... something. What I'm not sure. Emotional people spouting extremes in opinion are good for discussion, maybe? Who knows? I think you just wanted to argue. You still have yet to express an opinion on this subject, other than pointing out that I was expressing an opinion. Good for you.

As for providing citations, I don't think I will. You don't strike me as a legitimately intellectually curious person. You strike me as a "pics or it didn't happen" troll, and I'm tired of feeding you. I'm always hesitant to act as a gopher for people when they're simply lazy and won't do a little research for readily available articles themselves. I'm doubly reluctant when I'm absolutely positive that they have no intention of reading them and are just arguing for the sake of it, as is the case with you.

 

[Valksy]

As for providing citations, I don't think I will. You don't strike me as a legitimately intellectually curious person. You strike me as a "pics or it didn't happen" troll, and I'm tired of feeding you. I'm always hesitant to act as a gopher for people when they're simply lazy and won't do a little research for readily available articles themselves. I'm doubly reluctant when I'm absolutely positive that they have no intention of reading them and are just arguing for the sake of it, as is the case with you.

And now I am laughing. I was reading and following queer theory since before many of the posters here were even bloody born. Gender and sexuality have been at the forefront of my sphere of interest for a very long time.

Honestly, threads like this make me laugh a little, shake my head a little. The intellectual arrogance of some straight person claiming that they know more about being GLBTQ, and what being GLBTQ actually means to a person, than someone who is actually GLBTQ never fails to startle and astonish me. And this is not just addressed to the quoted poster.

Here is an example - How many of you would have the fucking nerve to go to a person of, say, Pakistani descent and tell them that no no...YOU know better than them about what it is like growing up in the UK, how YOU have a greater insight, how YOU know their life better than they do. Until the human race learns to grow the fuck up then people will always be divided in to subsets and when members of the majority think that they understand the minority better than the minority understands itself, I can only laugh at them.

But please do continue, I've had some priceless quotes out of this thread and you have bought some of my friends a great deal of amusement.

Or you could concede that maybe you (generic "you" before people get sand in their metaphorical vaginas) do not know better.

 

[PhiMed]

As for providing citations, I don't think I will. You don't strike me as a legitimately intellectually curious person. You strike me as a "pics or it didn't happen" troll, and I'm tired of feeding you. I'm always hesitant to act as a gopher for people when they're simply lazy and won't do a little research for readily available articles themselves. I'm doubly reluctant when I'm absolutely positive that they have no intention of reading them and are just arguing for the sake of it, as is the case with you.

And now I am laughing. I was reading and following queer theory since before many of the posters here were even bloody born. Gender and sexuality have been at the forefront of my sphere of interest for a very long time.

Honestly, threads like this make me laugh a little, shake my head a little. The intellectual arrogance of some straight person claiming that they know more about being GLBTQ, and what being GLBTQ actually means to a person, than someone who is actually GLBTQ never fails to startle and astonish me. And this is not just addressed to the quoted poster.

Here is an example - How many of you would have the fucking nerve to go to a person of, say, Pakistani descent and tell them that no no...YOU know better than them about what it is like growing up in the UK, how YOU have a greater insight, how YOU know their life better than they do. Until the human race learns to grow the fuck up then people will always be divided in to subsets and when members of the majority think that they understand the minority better than the minority understands itself, I can only laugh at them.

But please do continue, I've had some priceless quotes out of this thread and you have bought some of my friends a great deal of amusement.

Or you could concede that maybe you (generic "you" before people get sand in their metaphorical vaginas) do not know better.

Fortunately, not everyone feels as you do. Otherwise, we would have significant delays in the treatment of ethnicity- or gender- specific ailments. Everyone would be worried about on which conditions they were qualified to comment.

"You don't know what it's like" is the weakest type of appeal to authority, and I'd hope someone who had actually done study on anything would be capable of better. I see my low expectations are warranted.

 

[PhiMed]

As for providing citations, I don't think I will. You don't strike me as a legitimately intellectually curious person. You strike me as a "pics or it didn't happen" troll, and I'm tired of feeding you. I'm always hesitant to act as a gopher for people when they're simply lazy and won't do a little research for readily available articles themselves. I'm doubly reluctant when I'm absolutely positive that they have no intention of reading them and are just arguing for the sake of it, as is the case with you.

And now I am laughing. I was reading and following queer theory since before many of the posters here were even bloody born. Gender and sexuality have been at the forefront of my sphere of interest for a very long time.

Honestly, threads like this make me laugh a little, shake my head a little. The intellectual arrogance of some straight person claiming that they know more about being GLBTQ, and what being GLBTQ actually means to a person, than someone who is actually GLBTQ never fails to startle and astonish me. And this is not just addressed to the quoted poster.

Here is an example - How many of you would have the fucking nerve to go to a person of, say, Pakistani descent and tell them that no no...YOU know better than them about what it is like growing up in the UK, how YOU have a greater insight, how YOU know their life better than they do. Until the human race learns to grow the fuck up then people will always be divided in to subsets and when members of the majority think that they understand the minority better than the minority understands itself, I can only laugh at them.

But please do continue, I've had some priceless quotes out of this thread and you have bought some of my friends a great deal of amusement.

Or you could concede that maybe you (generic "you" before people get sand in their metaphorical vaginas) do not know better.

I don't know on which contextual border you stand, but your insistence that everyone else in the entire world stands on the opposite shore probably contributes to your world view.

 

[Valksy]

Fortunately, not everyone feels as you do. Otherwise, we would have significant delays in the treatment of ethnicity- or gender- specific ailments. Everyone would be worried about on which conditions they were qualified to comment.

"You don't know what it's like" is the weakest type of appeal to authority, and I'd hope someone who had actually done study on anything would be capable of better. I see my low expectations are warranted.

The hilarious part of this is that people who are not qualified to comment insist on doing so - and I am not talking about a forum. I've been involved in activism to do undo the bollocks that unqualified bodies have done to my community for a long time. I would love it very much if unqualified people would shut the fuck up and mind their business =D


And sorry dear, but you actually know fuck all about me, other than what I have told you. You don't get to determine whether my "study" is up to your exacting standards or not.

 

[PhiMed]

Fortunately, not everyone feels as you do. Otherwise, we would have significant delays in the treatment of ethnicity- or gender- specific ailments. Everyone would be worried about on which conditions they were qualified to comment.

"You don't know what it's like" is the weakest type of appeal to authority, and I'd hope someone who had actually done study on anything would be capable of better. I see my low expectations are warranted.

The hilarious part of this is that people who are not qualified to comment insist on doing so - and I am not talking about a forum. I've been involved in activism to do undo the bollocks that unqualified bodies have done to my community for a long time. I would love it very much if unqualified people would shut the fuck up and mind their business =D


And sorry dear, but you actually know fuck all about me, other than what I have told you. You don't get to determine whether my "study" is up to your exacting standards or not.

By your standards, no white can study non-whites, no non-white can study whites. No males can study females, and vice versa. No race can study any other race, no preference can study any other preference. Hell, no political party can poll the other. No wonder no studies meet you standards. You are an isolationist. Enjoy your isolationism.

Edit: You have yet to present a "study".

 

[Gigano]

Can't it be totally and utterly irrelevant?

Who really knows whether an appreciation or dislike for cheese is the result of nature, nurture, or a combination thereof? But more importantly, who cares about knowing?

Since there's nothing particularly wrong or right about being gay - they like same-sex sex, so what? - I don't see the relevance of ascertaining what causes it outside an ideal scientific interest.