So I just beat Metal Gear Solid Revengance and fun as the game was, I honestly don't know why I wasn't given the option to join up with the final boss. His speech before the final fight convinced me that he's in the right.
Basically, he wants to destroy the military-industrial complex and end war as a business
Other bosses I really didn't want to fight are Sif, the Great Grey Wolf from Dark Souls who you rescued in the DLC and he clearly recognizes you (and pathetically struggles to defend his former masters grave from you--limping and falling over before you finish him off), Solidus Snake from MGS2 (trying to free America from a big group of conspirators), and the Collosai from Shadow of the Colossus who are just minding their own business until,a complete asshole, decides to listen to a clearly evil voice and slaughter them all..
Gotta agree with you on the two Metal Gear Bosses, actually stick The Boss from MGS3 in there too, as much as I love that fight. I had serious difficulty pulling that trigger the first time. Even that bit in Peace Walker where you have to shoot the horse jerked a couple of tears.
I do really like the cutscene in revengance before the final boss. Especially the way he sort of dusts you off. Plus of course:
The Moonlight Butterfly in Dark Souls. Mainly because it's a range only boss when I don't use ranged weapons and ranged magic can only be learned AFTER the fight. Also its design is so elegant that I don't want to hurt it, even if it fires giant laser spears of death at me.
Faye Lee from Binary Domain. If you played that game and paid attention to a lot of the dialogue, this fight was just one you didn't want to do, same with Bo.
One boss fight in Borderlands 2. I saw it coming, I was dreading it. I knew I was going to hate it, but I kept playing anyway.
Bloodwing... just dammit. I had lost my own pet bird who I had raised from a baby about a week before I got to that part of the game. Between Mordecai's frantic voice acting, and Jack's taunting at the end it was just too much. I stopped playing the game for almost a month because of that fight.
Andrew Ryan in the original bioshock and the master/Richard Gray from the original fallout. (Andrew is technically a boss battle since the encounter with him is aggressive, has been built up for an extended period of time and causes major changes to the game's story)
Maybe I am just playing the devil's advocate here but to me, neither of them were ever evil. Oh sure, Ryan might come of as a modernized retro version of Ebenezer scrooge but he wasn't intentionally evil. And the master was just trying to unite the people and make sure the war that nearly wiped out everything didn't repeat itself. They didn't mean to cause the damage and destruction they left behind, they were just naive at best. They wanted to see how much we human beings could accomplish if we let us and they did what they could to bring us in to that new golden age while not realizing what they were actually doing until it was too late. This is why I hated fighting them, I knew that if I had given them time or just tried to find a way to work with them for a better solution (the master's suicide ending not accounted for) we might have found a workable solution that would render them as heroes instead of monsters. ..... That and they are amazingly charismatic and so well acted that I didn't want to remove them from the game. They left me wanting more just like a good character is supposed to
So I just beat Metal Gear Solid Revengance and fun as the game was, I honestly don't know why I wasn't given the option to join up with the final boss. His speech before the final fight convinced me that he's in the right.
Basically, he wants to destroy the military-industrial complex and end war as a business
"Intentions" are meaningless and don't actually do anything. Please don't ever vote, please. Did you even pay attention to the Armstrong fight? Let me paraphrase the two:
Armstrong: "America wanted this war for years. The patriots - they knew war was good for the economy. They left us their great isms: Nationalism! Unilateralism! Materialism! Give yourself up for the whole. No need to better yourself - you're American, you're number one! The only value left is dollar value; the economy. So we'll do whatever it takes to keep it humming along. Even war. Especially war. The patriots planted their seed, but we don't need them around any longer; we're spreading them just fine ourselves."
*Armstrong later implies he was being facetious here*
Raiden: "Bullshit! Typical politician, big promises but all talk. "Jump start the economy"? What a load of bullshit. All you care about is lining your own pockets. That, and your approval ratings. You've got no principles, just like all the rest. If Americas gone to shit, you're just another maggot crawling in the pile."
*Raiden calls him greedy*
Armstrong: "All right, the truth then. You're right, I do need capital, and votes. Wanna know why? "I have a dream": that one day, every person in this nation will control their own destiny. A land of the truly free, dammit. A nation of action, not words; ruled by strength, not committee. Where the law changes to suit the individual, not the other way around. Where power and justice are back where they belong: in the hands of the people. Where every man is free to think, to act, for himself. Fuck lawyers and bureaucrats. Fuck trivia and celebrity bullshit. Fuck American pride, fuck the media, fuck all of it. America is diseased, rotten to the core. There's no saving it. We need to wipe the slate clean. Burn it down! The weak will be purged, and the strongest thrive. I'm using war as a business to get elected... so I can end war as a business."
*Armstrong wants to destroy the world so he can rebuild from the ashes according to his own vision*
Raiden: "I was wrong. You're not greedy. You're batshit insane!"
If you want me to spell it out for you: his end (I want to end war as a business) has fuck-all to do with his means (I want to destroy the entire planet, particularly America, via world war 3). Aka he's batshit insane. He is rambling incoherent nonsense and you fell for it. He is the Mao Zedong of America, talking up the wonderful ends he will achieve as he guides the world into his Great Leap Forward, but where his choice of means has no chance of giving him that. He is a typical American politician preaching empty promises and you lapped it up.
The entirety of God of War 3 was increasingly painful. Throughout the entire series it almost always occurs to before the final blows of each fight that "Hey, Maybe there's a god of the sea for a reason. Maybe i'm making a big mess for the entire world and my proud ass should just rot in hell next time."
I had to put Devola and Popola down in NiER it wasn't until the cutscene after beating them that I realized just what I had done. then.....Emil...oh Emil. T-T
One boss fight in Borderlands 2. I saw it coming, I was dreading it. I knew I was going to hate it, but I kept playing anyway.
Bloodwing... just dammit. I had lost my own pet bird who I had raised from a baby about a week before I got to that part of the game. Between Mordecai's frantic voice acting, and Jack's taunting at the end it was just too much. I stopped playing the game for almost a month because of that fight.
The Moonlight Butterfly in Dark Souls. Mainly because it's a range only boss when I don't use ranged weapons and ranged magic can only be learned AFTER the fight. Also its design is so elegant that I don't want to hurt it, even if it fires giant laser spears of death at me.
His heart was so in the right place, but he just couldn't give me a chance! WE CAN LIVE IN PEACE GAIUS YOU ARE A WONDERFUL KING WE DO NOT NEED THIS CONFLICT!
I saw that fight as the party attempting to slap some sense into Gaius, so I had no issues with it. Did you really think a mere party of 6 could kill someone as badass as Gaius? Please.
OT: Frenzied Toroko, from Cave Story. Mistakenly captured at the start of the game and turned into a killing machine half way through, that was one boss battle I really did not want to fight. After all that happened in the game, I enjoyed beating the crap out of the Doctor at the end of the game more than I probably should have...
On the other end of the scale, there is Ballos from the same game. Its not so much that fighting Ballos is hard, its getting to him first. Welcome to Hell indeed.
Well you make me feel like an asshole. Not only do I kill Quelaag without any remorse, I kill Quelana as well, just so I can get her fire keeper's soul.
I kill Priscilla every time too, and I don't use daggers. I just want to xp from killing her.
I never really understood why he was possessed or whatever but I had no issue with killing him. I never summoned him or anything so it was the first time I'd seen him since the beginning of the game. I was just kinda like, "hm, that's random. Okay, whatever." The only sad part about that for me was the fact that his gear was shit
I guess if you're going through the game trying to get as much practical stuff out of it as possible it wouldn't matter who the Fair Lady (Quelana is the pyromancy trainer in Blighttown) or Priscilla are or what they did. And you meet Solaire throughout the game at bonfires.
I knew who Quelaag is and who Quelana is and what her significance is in the lore and why she's such a tragic character. All the same, I really wanted that fire keeper soul. Plus, I hate spiders (even grotesquely deformed ones). I also know Priscilla's back story, but I thirst for souls and she has a lot of them. Killing Quelana made me feel a little bad but I didn't really care about the others.
Now that I think about it, I do remember meeting him again at Anor Londo, but that was the first time I saw him since the beginning of the game and the last time I saw him before he tried to kill me. That also confused me a little, I wasn't sure why he was there other than to just kind of be like, "By the way, I still exist."
Every boss in playthrough B of NIER.
Anyone here who knows what I'm talking about, I invite you to cry on my shoulder if you'll let me cry on yours.
Every time I killed one, I'd think to myself "Okay, the next one had absolutely no excuse to be a dick in the first playthrough, what can the game possibly throw at me n- OH HOLY FUCK NO COME ON PLEASE NO DON'T MAKE ME DO THAT"
Then I'd kill them and it'd do the thing where it shows you what they were actually saying as they died and I'd emotionally destroyed for a while.
I never got 'round to playthrough C or D, though. Maybe someday.
I am so surprised nobody mentioned Spekkio from Chrono Trigger. I've fought cosmic monstrosities that were less frightening than that fellow.
Just being butchered over and over to delightfully cheerful music to the point you dread hearing it play.
I also hated fighting Arthas, I loved the scourge from Warcraft 3 and I thought his path and rise to station was incredibly interesting to follow. Besides, I thought they way they paced the campaign and the several times he proved himself capable of butchering entire armies made his defeat all the more irritating.
Letho from the Witcher 2
This one was made okay by the ability to let him leave, and I made that decision nearly instantly. I thought he was a cooler character than Geralt and was provably capable of ignoring the morality of the means he used toward his ends. I was very grateful that CD Projekt RED put that choice in the game.
I'm sure there's plenty plenty more because I often seem to identify and agree with the bads more often than the goods.
Sif the great gray wolf from dark souls. I felt so bad about having to kill him to get the ring from the grave of Artorious, especially since he was trying to protect you and everyone else from being corrupted by the abyss. His howl of sorrow when he recognized you nearly made me just quit the game.
Also Queelag from the same game. Once I found her sister and talked to her using the old witches ring I felt like such a bad guy. Dark souls is great at making you feel bad.
The Moonlight Butterfly in Dark Souls. Mainly because it's a range only boss when I don't use ranged weapons and ranged magic can only be learned AFTER the fight. Also its design is so elegant that I don't want to hurt it, even if it fires giant laser spears of death at me.
Correct, but the Beatrice summon is hidden behind a bush so your likely to not see it on your first run through(and after that since you need to be human to summon and have probably died against the boss needing to get it back), and sorceries don't become available for learning until after you defeat it. While there are ranged miracles I tend not to use them due to me always having insufficient faith.
Did you even pay attention to the Armstrong fight? Let me paraphrase the two:
Armstrong: "America wanted this war for years. The patriots - they knew war was good for the economy. They left us their great isms: Nationalism! Unilateralism! Materialism! Give yourself up for the whole. No need to better yourself - you're American, you're number one! The only value left is dollar value; the economy. So we'll do whatever it takes to keep it humming along. Even war. Especially war. The patriots planted their seed, but we don't need them around any longer; we're spreading them just fine ourselves."
*Armstrong later implies he was being facetious here*
Raiden: "Bullshit! Typical politician, big promises but all talk. "Jump start the economy"? What a load of bullshit. All you care about is lining your own pockets. That, and your approval ratings. You've got no principles, just like all the rest. If Americas gone to shit, you're just another maggot crawling in the pile."
Yep. Armstrong thinks you're just like Sam, ready to fold if bested by someone physically superior. Basically, he doesn't respect you enough as he believes you lack integrity (which is why he's also such an ass to you during the giant mech spider fight). He becomes a lot more candid when he sees that even getting your ass kicked, your resolve never diminishes.
DjinnFor said:
Armstrong: "All right, the truth then. You're right, I do need capital, and votes. Wanna know why? "I have a dream": that one day, every person in this nation will control their own destiny. A land of the truly free, dammit. A nation of action, not words; ruled by strength, not committee. Where the law changes to suit the individual, not the other way around. Where power and justice are back where they belong: in the hands of the people. Where every man is free to think, to act, for himself. Fuck lawyers and bureaucrats. Fuck trivia and celebrity bullshit. Fuck American pride, fuck the media, fuck all of it. America is diseased, rotten to the core. There's no saving it. We need to wipe the slate clean. Burn it down! The weak will be purged, and the strongest thrive. I'm using war as a business to get elected... so I can end war as a business."
*Armstrong wants to destroy the world so he can rebuild from the ashes according to his own vision*
He's really no different than any other revolutionary (including the founding fathers who pretty much did exactly what he's talking about).
DjinnFor said:
If you want me to spell it out for you: his end (I want to end war as a business) has fuck-all to do with his means (I want to destroy the entire planet, particularly America, via world war 3). Aka he's batshit insane. He is rambling incoherent nonsense and you fell for it. He is the Mao Zedong of America, talking up the wonderful ends he will achieve as he guides the world into his Great Leap Forward, but where his choice of means has no chance of giving him that. He is a typical American politician preaching empty promises and you lapped it up.
What you wrote doesn't even make sense. Here, let me do you the honour of spelling it out for you son.
Its all about CONTEXT.
All the bosses fought in Revengance gave you a final monologue when you finished them off (no matter how many billions of pieces you cut them into), telling you what they really wanted or believed. This was also the case in previous MGS games which although wouldn't make sense in the real world, its used here as catharsis and a bit of final fleshing to better humanize your opponent. Besides, its a Kojima & company trope.
Armstrong does the same as he dies, acknowledging you as a fellow being of infinite will and resolve. As I mentioned in a previous post, that acknowledgement is also found during the final battle as the lyrics in the music are Armstrong's thoughts sung at the player.
Both his first monologue and the lyrics of Collective Consciousness, the song played when he's in the big mech, are meant to make the situation seem black and white. Armstrong seems flat out evil. He seems to be a mustache twirling villain of the Capcom variety out for only personal gain, but then is revealed as having noble goals (as did pretty much all the big MGS villains).
That said, there are also parallel's to the final battle in MGS2 when you fought Solidus. Both Armstrong and Solidus used horrific means in an effort to bring about greater individual freedom. Both saw you as an heir, which is another MGS trope (The Boss & Naked Snake, Big Boss & Solid, Big Boss & his 'sons' etc.).
The big question I felt after playing is 'does the means justify the end?'. Looking at the past MGS titles, 'no' seems to be Kojima's answer.
I had to put Devola and Popola down in NiER it wasn't until the cutscene after beating them that I realized just what I had done. then.....Emil...oh Emil. T-T
Its been years since I last did anything involved with Nier (other than recommending it whenever I get the chance, of course!) but anyway... (major end spoilers!)
Surprisingly, he actually survives it if you go through the second playthrough (or was it the third?).
But then again you basically doom whatever is left of mankind to extinction in the end, so in theory if he ever meets up with the gang again he'll basically be treated to the sight of all his friends slowly dying, only to inevitably end up completely alone in the desolate world.
...Holy crap Nier was pretty depressing, huh?
Practically every boss in Nier nearly had me in tears while fighting them in the second playthrough, Spec Ops has got nothing on that game when it comes to making a person feel like a monster.
Jesus, these things are hardcore. For those of you who don't know, these two are a recurring theme of Dead Space: "Hey we need ideas for boss monsters." "How about one that grows back it's limbs?"
Just when you think you're master of you own destiny, leave it to undead Wolverine to shatter your illusions of control. Also, they look scarier than regular Slashers, being about nine feet tall with a hunched, and surprisingly fast gait. Plus their sounds are so distinct, you know when it's right on your ass.
I don't want to fight it because I always almost pee myself, and even on multiple go throughs, they scar the piss out of me. But hey, it is a horror game after all....
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then.....Emil...oh Emil. T-T
