Boy Scouts Accepting Gays Now

[Rapidriots]

Of course they allow atheists in scouts. You can be any religion. I was in scouts for years, and there was no "test" or anything for religion. We had meetings at a catholic school's gymnasium, but that's the only way religion ever came into play in my troop.

 

[darron13]

That's great, but I don't see why any self respecting gay teenager would in their right mind WANT to join the scouts at this point anyway...

 

[Vuliev]

As you can clearly see from the text you yourself quoted, I didn't say that at all. Seriously, can anyone on this board respond to my posts without making a strawman argument out of them?

Oh for fuck's sake--don't use language like

...would it be such a bad thing if Boy Scouts went out of business? Seriously, what relevance do they have to modern life?

if you're not prepared for someone that's actually had significant first-hand experience to jump on your ass about the extremely unsubtle implications it makes. That statement is pretty damn close to "better off without," from the perspective that losing the BSA would be an awful thing for the country's male youth--a perspective that millions of people with significant BSA experience share.

In fairness, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're speaking from unfamiliarity with Scouts--in which case, please address the rest of my previous post, because the BSA has enormous relevance to modern society.

...yet I have not seen a single organization that does it as well as Scouts. None. The only equivalent experience to leading a patrol or troop is being a sports team captain or major club leader, and guess what? Those that take those non-Scout responsibilities on are largely either those with the innate talent and drive to lead--or they bring their experience from leading in Scouts. Simply jumping into a leadership position isn't the most effective way to learn leadership. Building self-confidence, self-reliance, and the ability to trust teammates are cornerstones, and those skills "irrelevant to 90% of the population" happen to be rather effective at building those.

Speaking of those "irrelevant" skills: as an Eagle Scout, I'll admit that I haven't had to use my wilderness survival skills yet--and that's pretty much all that I haven't used since I left Scouting. What I have used, though?
[ul]
[li]First aid (in my case, sprained ankle, broken arm, broken foot, deep laceration (glass), second degree burns (boiling water), and probably more that I've forgotten about)[/li]
[li]fire building[/li]
[li]water rescue[/li]
[li]plant identification[/li]
[li]orienteering (map-reading, compass use)[/li]
[li]basic carpentry/construction/metalwork (and all the tool use that comes with it: axe, hand saws, hammer, awl, knife, whetstone, power saws, power drill, Dremel, and plenty more)[/li]
[li]sewing[/li]
[li]cooking[/li]
[li]proper use of gas appliances[/li]
[li]proper care/handling of firearms (and the knowledge/respect that comes with)[/li]
[/ul]and on and on. And that's just the hands-on stuff.

 

[Mcupobob]

Whoo! Go gay rights. Umm not much else I have to add, people against it will eventually get over it.

 

[axlryder]

I approve!
"Chang.org"?

Well some of the stuff there does encourage some to

Anyways, congratulations, a little less homophobia is always nice.

hmph, well all I have to say is:


OT: good for them and stuff.

 

[prowll]

As you can clearly see from the text you yourself quoted, I didn't say that at all. Seriously, can anyone on this board respond to my posts without making a strawman argument out of them?

Oh for fuck's sake--don't use language like

...would it be such a bad thing if Boy Scouts went out of business? Seriously, what relevance do they have to modern life?

if you're not prepared for someone that's actually had significant first-hand experience to jump on your ass about the extremely unsubtle implications it makes. That statement is pretty damn close to "better off without," from the perspective that losing the BSA would be an awful thing for the country's male youth--a perspective that millions of people with significant BSA experience share.

In fairness, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're speaking from unfamiliarity with Scouts--in which case, please address the rest of my previous post, because the BSA has enormous relevance to modern society.

...yet I have not seen a single organization that does it as well as Scouts. None. The only equivalent experience to leading a patrol or troop is being a sports team captain or major club leader, and guess what? Those that take those non-Scout responsibilities on are largely either those with the innate talent and drive to lead--or they bring their experience from leading in Scouts. Simply jumping into a leadership position isn't the most effective way to learn leadership. Building self-confidence, self-reliance, and the ability to trust teammates are cornerstones, and those skills "irrelevant to 90% of the population" happen to be rather effective at building those.

Speaking of those "irrelevant" skills: as an Eagle Scout, I'll admit that I haven't had to use my wilderness survival skills yet--and that's pretty much all that I haven't used since I left Scouting. What I have used, though?
[ul]
[li]First aid (in my case, sprained ankle, broken arm, broken foot, deep laceration (glass), second degree burns (boiling water), and probably more that I've forgotten about)[/li]
[li]fire building[/li]
[li]water rescue[/li]
[li]plant identification[/li]
[li]orienteering (map-reading, compass use)[/li]
[li]basic carpentry/construction/metalwork (and all the tool use that comes with it: axe, hand saws, hammer, awl, knife, whetstone, power saws, power drill, Dremel, and plenty more)[/li]
[li]sewing[/li]
[li]cooking[/li]
[li]proper use of gas appliances[/li]
[li]proper care/handling of firearms (and the knowledge/respect that comes with)[/li]
[/ul]and on and on. And that's just the hands-on stuff.

Just as a side note, I can say that I learned most of what you have listed here from my father. I also was a scout, so some of it came from that as well. However, not everyone has a father that is able, or present, to help them learn at a young age when it'll matter, and stick for life. While not a perfect solution, the scouts can give additional leadership and support to young kids in broken homes.

 

[Screamarie]

Woo! The BSA is finally pulling it's head out of it's ass! Or at least peeking a teensy bit.

I think that the GSA is a great pillar of community and teaches a lot to young girls not that I ever was one (being misanthropic and all). And I know that the BSA can offer those same exact things and there are many young men who have benefited greatly from their influence...but the fact of the matter is that that they have been so unwilling to change with the times and they're exclusion to anyone slightly different is very harmful. I mean they basically say, "you must be straight, Christian, and cisgendered to be of any actual worth of our time or not a pedophile."

Though I feel sorry for all the boys in bigoted families that will now be removed from the BSA for its attempts at openness...I can only hope that the BSA will stick with it.

 

[Abomination]

All I can gather form this is that it'll now be considered okay to be camp while you camp in a camp under the watch of your camp-master and with your fellow campers who might be as camp as you are.

I wonder if they will have rules about pitching tents?

 

[VoidWanderer]

So with gay people joining, will the be changing the uniform?

But in all seriousness, I am surprised that gay people weren't already in the BSA.

 

[Baneat]

...would it be such a bad thing if Boy Scouts went out of business? Seriously, what relevance do they have to modern life?

All of the general skills supposedly taught by boy scouts (leadership, self-confidence, etc) can be learned in other ways...

[snip]...so who are you to say that we would be better off without the BSA?

As you can clearly see from the text you yourself quoted, I didn't say that at all. Seriously, can anyone on this board respond to my posts without making a strawman argument out of them?

Why is this site's forum so obsessed with that term?

 

[Xan Krieger]

So next will they allow women to join? And maybe the girl scouts will accept male members. It's a private club, can't they decide who can and can't join?

 

[Vuliev]

Face it, you saw someone saying something mildly negative (or rather not positive) about BSA and you jumped to wild conclusions in order to defend your tribe. The graceful thing to do at this point would be for you to apologize and drop it so we can both move on to more important things.

I did drop it, after explaining why I felt your comment was in poor taste. I then asked you to comment on the rest of that post. Please do so.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

So next will they allow women to join? And maybe the girl scouts will accept male members. It's a private club, can't they decide who can and can't join?

You know what I think it would be great that they do? How about just "Scouts" and kids who want to be all outdoorsy and team style social get more of the Boy Scouts elements and kids who want to be really domestic and community/networking social get more of the Girl Scouts elements and gender need not be a consideration?

I really wanted to join the Boy Scouts because my friend Mike was one and not only did I idolize him but he told me about all the cool stuff they did camping and exploring and it sounded so fun. Of course, the Girl Scout troop I was geographically closest to had no such activities and were instead organizing a bake-off and 'exploring' the Mall of America for their big trip. I was so disappointed I didn't stay. I really think I would be more of an outdoors person than I am now if I had had the opportunity to join the side of Scouting that fit my interests at the time. I wanted to be more outdoorsy and in nature and comfortable there. I didn't want to learn to be a more savvy shopper or cook tasty treats - though I developed a love of baking later in life, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with offering such things! They just don't need to be so gender tagged specific in an increasingly less gender specific world.

I wasn't bitter about it and I'm not now, those were their rules, they got to make them, I accepted it, I was a kid there wasn't much else to do. Now that I'm an adult I can look back and see that I missed out for really arbitrary reasons that may be outdated enough to be a little ridiculous.

 

[Valkrex]

About fucking time... I really don't understand why people hate homosexuals.

 

[Abomination]

Why is this site's forum so obsessed with that term?

Stop trying to strawman that rebuttal to a pointless repetitive catch-all trope!

Or whatever. I do agree completely, it's getting quite absurd. Far more than half the time it's being used incorrectly.