Brink No Girls Allowed!!!!

[GiantRaven]

Look, I'd rather play Duke Nukem with an open mind, rather than have equality shoved up my throat because some angry mobs of non-gamers will call heresy for them being non-inclusive of every fucking minority.

Because having ethnic diversity somehow detracts from Duke Nukem in some way? I don't see it myself...

I really don't understand the viewpoint that having diversity in a game is means it is somehow aiming to be 'politically correct' and that is therefore a bad thing.

To be honest, the fact that some people care so much that there aren't playable female characters in this game is even more depressing.

As I said in an earlier post, why does it matter? Why does it matter at all?

I am all ears (or eyes, in this case) to consider a good reason to care, but thus far, despite the many pro female character related threads and arguements I've seen I still haven't seen one which makes me care.

The female gender isn't exactly a minority in the real world (making up, what, 50% of the population?). Why should they not be adequately represented within videogaming?

Personally, I just like to see some variety. It's harder to give a shit when you see characters with the same gender/nationality/ethnicity/sexuality etc. over and over. It's nice to see different things, you know? Using the same character archetype repeatedly is going to be more limiting than utilising a wide variety. It also gives people who explicitly want characters like that something to look forward to (but I guess they don't matter because they aren't the core demographic).

 

[notevenhere]

Seriously? You actually think that? That any male thinks that female characters are 'girly' and only for girls?

I think the lack of female characters in games is definitely something to be frowned upon. Just as the lack of different races and sexualities should also be frowned upon. Diversity is a good thing, even if it doesn't sell (which is what I find depressing).

Videogames shouldn't just be aimed at the teenage boy market, even if they are the biggest audience, if they even are. I've read in multiple places that the average age of 'gamers' is much, much higher. To think that all videogames should be aimed towards that market is stupid.

Who's thoughts are you quoting here? I don't believe I specified that all games where aimed at this market, but Brink surely is.

What sort of a market do you think I'm advocating here? I don't believe I argued that female characters were 'girly' and only for girls, I merely stated that the specific game that a lot of Brink brother games are closely trying to follow is TF2. Diversity isn't a good thing, because they're out to make a profit.

The devs shouldn't have to accomodate the diversity-demanding vocal minority, YOU, just because its going to please you. The fact is, they're not trying to please, despite what some fantastic charity drives and other social responsibility / ethics examples might persuade you of. [All of this is opinion. You, for example, thinking that diversity is a good thing exclusively is opinion, as is my belief that it isn't a good thing in this case (see: your use of italics). If it depresses you, then surely you'd not be angered here, but saddened to the point where you don't take statements out of context and put your letters on an angle?]

On the average age of gamers, we need to recognize that the term 'gamer' defines more or less anybody playing games with an electronic device that is marketed to do so (this can include iProducts, despite the main purpose of these often being marketed as music - something which I don't necessarily approve of, but cannot dismiss). When I'm speaking of the audience, don't imagnie I'm doing it in general.

(I really hate the text that appears in this box, it's fairly irritating to try to write a response, I'm new here - if I screwed something up please ignore it la~)

 

[Shabooboo]

I think the problem is less that you can't be a girl, but that when a game says it has

"advanced player customization [that] offers a near-endless combination of looks for your character - allowing for the appearance of your character to be truly unique"

as well as saying you can

"build a look that fits your method of play, gamer personality, or personal style"

while disallowing roughly half the human population to be represented, is a bit of a lie.

 

[Lunaras13]

Lol, and again:
Video games, specifically these genres, are aimed at a predominately teenage boys market. It is a niche intent to try and get sales from female customers.

What you've said more or less equates to finding it sad that make-up needs to be marketed differently at boys, which it does. Gender differences are significant, but not necessarily something to be frowned upon, yo!

Seriously? You actually think that? That any male thinks that female characters are 'girly' and only for girls?

I think the lack of female characters in games is definitely something to be frowned upon. Just as the lack of different races and sexualities should also be frowned upon. Diversity is a good thing, even if it doesn't sell (which is what I find depressing).

Videogames shouldn't just be aimed at the teenage boy market, even if they are the biggest audience, if they even are. I've read in multiple places that the average age of 'gamers' is much, much higher. To think that all videogames should be aimed towards that market is stupid.

the main consumers of videogames are 18-34 year old males i believe, and house wives outnumber young women because of casual games

theres lots of female characters in genres that are applicable. like i said in a previous post there are so few women front line soldiers that saying "why arnt there more female characters in my fps" is like saying "why arnt there more dog characters in my fps" minus the whole cant pull a trigger problem.


as for minorities, they are MINORities. if you have a room with 1 white person, 1 black, 1 asian, 1 hispanic etc. then it isnt a proper view of society since there r at least 4 white people for every other race in america. So demanding equality is demanding phantasy

 

[GiantRaven]

Who's thoughts are you quoting here? I don't believe I specified that all games where aimed at this market, but Brink surely is.

What sort of a market do you think I'm advocating here? I don't believe I argued that female characters were 'girly' and only for girls, I merely stated that the specific game that a lot of Brink brother games are closely trying to follow is TF2. Diversity isn't a good thing, because they're out to make a profit.

My apologies, I was obviously misinterpreting what you were saying.

The devs shouldn't have to accomodate the diversity-demanding vocal minority, YOU, just because its going to please you. The fact is, they're not trying to please, despite what some fantastic charity drives and other social responsibility / ethics examples might persuade you of. [All of this is opinion. You, for example, thinking that diversity is a good thing exclusively is opinion, as is my belief that it isn't a good thing in this case (see: your use of italics).

Why shouldn't they be trying to impress me? I'm a potential customer who, as a 22-year-old male, is roughly in their target demographic. What if the lack of such options turns me off the game (not that it does, I'm still very interested in playing Brink)? How many other people will be turned off in the same fashion. It's probably more than would be turned off if such options were put into the game.

If it depresses you, then surely you'd not be angered here, but saddened to the point where you don't take statements out of context and put your letters on an angle?

Then I suppose I am angered by the lack of diversity in games, rather than depressed. A poor choice of wording on my part.

 

[notevenhere]

the main consumers of videogames are 18-34 year old males i believe, and house wives outnumber young women because of casual games

theres lots of female characters in genres that are applicable. like i said in a previous post there are so few women front line soldiers that saying "why arnt there more female characters in my fps" is like saying "why arnt there more dog characters in my fps" minus the whole cant pull a trigger problem.


as for minorities, they are MINORities. if you have a room with 1 white person, 1 black, 1 asian, 1 hispanic etc. then it isnt a proper view of society since there r at least 4 white people for every other race in america. So demanding equality is demanding phantasy

Well said with the examples. I'd like to discredit the 18-34 people being part of the market, as most males over the age of 25 are probably out of the shooter market bar nostalgia (a certain game comes to mind), and when we're marketing games we most certainly do NOT look at the majority of gamers, but of the majority of the intended demographic that will, hopefully, buy and enjoy (-> more sales) the game.

Fantasy*

 

[notevenhere]

Why shouldn't they be trying to impress me? I'm a potential customer who, as a 22-year-old male, is roughly in their target demographic. What if the lack of such options turns me off the game (not that it does, I'm still very interested in playing Brink)? How many other people will be turned off in the same fashion. It's probably more than would be turned off if such options were put into the game.

You're the MINORITY. Of all the 22-year-old males I know, I don't believe any more than 5% of them are inclined to argue this point in your manner. Furthermore, as you said,how many would be put off by the developers pandering to your cries for diversity? I most certainly wouldn't want to buy a game where I was playing a bulky female or a mexican scientist (now, now, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and these are just examples) I fit the demographic but do not feel the need to say an age that can easily be disputed.

 

[GiantRaven]

You're the MINORITY. Of all the 22-year-old males I know, I don't believe any more than 5% of them are inclined to argue this point in your manner.

I know you didn't state this, but does that mean I don't matter?

I most certainly wouldn't want to buy a game where I was playing a bulky female or a mexican scientist (now, now, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and these are just examples)

Why, exactly? I'm not going to say anything against you, I'm just curious. Why would you limit yourself regarding the characters you could potentially play as?

 

[notevenhere]

You're the MINORITY. Of all the 22-year-old males I know, I don't believe any more than 5% of them are inclined to argue this point in your manner.

I know you didn't state this, but does that mean I don't matter?

I most certainly wouldn't want to buy a game where I was playing a bulky female or a mexican scientist (now, now, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and these are just examples)

Why, exactly? I'm not going to say anything against you, I'm just curious. Why would you limit yourself regarding the characters you could potentially play as?

Heh, nono it's implied, I'm sorry if I come off as overly aggresive.
Fact is they're trying to make a sale, and it's easier to apply to the majority. It's misleading in forum discussion and community input, as the ones who have the most to say are generally the vocal minority. For example, despite the personality being an arrogant imbecile, the WoW community's Total Biscuit continually makes an excellent point that its the vocal minority that is changing the game towards a more casual approach.

It's a matter of interest. It's not that I don't enjoy playing as a female character or anything (indeed, of my WoW toons, it's 2/3 of my 85's that are female), but in general a male personality is more applicable to the sort of role I like in my protagonist(s) or floating cameras.

I recognize a point you may stress, though, and I acknowledge its worth. I would never have imagined I'd be interested in the stuff I am now, but it was by dipping my feet in the pool that I developed a fondness for it. This is more of an educated scenario, though, in all the years I've spent gaming I've developed a good idea of what I do, and what I don't like.

 

[TehChuckles]

GAH! damn this thread is filled with so many opinions without solid evidence to back them up (I'd only expect this in a religious forum actually), Splash Damage thought the Customers would love to see a much more deeper customisation rather than to have maybe a third (if they were lucky) of the possibilities with a "female" option tacked on. Get over it, it's their decision, I thought James from Extra Credit already explained this quite thoroughly to be honest./thread

 

[Korten12]

People should stop caring whether or not the character they play is male or female. If a game has a male lead, I'll play it. If a game has a female lead, I'll play it. If someone refuses to play a game based on it not being one or the other, they are just plain ridiculous.

I remember a girl in my gym class at school said she would only play Heavnly Sword and not God of War because of the female lead in Heavnly.

Did she play Heavenly Sword? How about Bayonetta? Does she look like those women? Is she that kind of person? If so, she either has some horrible disease or she has had way too much surgery. I am a male who will play as anything, a man, a woman, a dog, a robot, an omnipotent invisible being represented by a cursor... Why do we need characters to be a certain something in order to play them?

I think your friend is being a little silly.

I don't know if she ever did play. I don't believe Batonetta was out during that time.

Also she isn't my friend, she was the friend of a friend.

 

[plugav]

GO moan at activision for no females in call Of duty, once you have done that for about a year then i will listen. And before you go "oh its not the same". Yes it is

Not exactly.
CoD is a military shooter in which character customisation is an entirely new and secondary feature. Also, most soldiers are male.
Brink is a futuristic shooter in which complex character customisation is presented as a major feature. I'd say it's techniacally closer to Unreal Tournament or Quake 3 than it is to CoD. Which all makes it a reasonable expectation to be able to play as a female.

That said, the developer's decision is neither surprising nor unreasonable. While I support gender equality, I do believe "shooting dudes in the face" is a genre that mostly appeals to males. It's understandable, if unfair, that Splash Damage would rather make a fully developed game for the majority of its audience than a half-arsed game "for everyone."

There's a good article by Shamus Young on why trying to make games that appeal to everyone is a noble effort, but really a dead end (Experienced Points: Something for the Ladies [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/6328-Experienced-Points-Something-for-the-Ladies]).

 

[Shoelip]

SERIOUSLY WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE. I mean your picking on one dev for doing WHAT ALL FPS GAMES DO. Females are in NONE of the big titles, its taken gears of war 3 tries to put them in, the COD series still doesn't have a big female protagonist or enemy, bulletstorm doesnt, hell the last shooter i remember which does was timesplitters and that was on the ps2 so excuse me for giving BRINK a little leighway.

HELL the company even said they would like to put it in in the future as either dlc, an expansion or in a sequel. So just calm the hell down. Stupid to focus on one company for this considering how widespread it is.

*edit*
also note how much extra work that would require, it would make the customisation feel tacked on. They had finite development time and they chose the feature everyone loves and more power to them, thats how to run a business. They don't have the time or money benefits to fret away on this sort of thing given this is a new and untested IP.

GO moan at activision for no females in call Of duty, once you have done that for about a year then i will listen. And before you go "oh its not the same". Yes it is, its online multiplayer with customisable (if only slightly) avatars, and they could also waste a lot of money making female avatars (where did that 200 million go?).

The main difference is that CoD MW is about modern day warfare. Weapon are not allowed to be "combat soldiers" in most modern militaries. Certainly not the ones represented in the games. Since most of the time the games are about macho power fantasy in an action-movie-realistic warfare setting it makes sense that you play frontline troops or spec ops.

I personally think it'd be both extremely atmospheric and an awesome idea in general to have a female protagonist whose supply convoy gets ambushed. Finally representing the fact that female soldiers actually exist would go a long way towards making the CoD series actually worth it's own existence in my eyes.

Brink however is a sci fi game that focuses heavily on character customization. So really there's no good excuse to not allow female characters.

In the end they are just saying that they couldn't be bothered to take an entire sex into account because they didn't think it would be worth enough money.

theres several good excuses
COST
Publicity (yeah if they made the models "slightly" too big breasted there would be a big hoo-hah about it)
Time (yes given it's a new IP they do have a timescale and chose to cut it so as to focus on other things, more marketable things).

And the reason i bring up those other games, choosing to hold one game above another in regards to content like this is silly, if people are going to moan about this they should moan about all the rest. The only difference between this and all the other shooters is the customisability and as such your penalising a game because it decided to have this feature, rather than placing the blame across the board on all the genre(i might add that adding in several models which is all most modern shooters would need is whole magnitudes easier than the number of models and skins that brink has planned). All the rest could quite easily put females in but CHOOSE not to, I'd say established brands are more at fault here than New IP's which have a lot to lose.

And yet the reason they gave was that they would rather spend the time designing more clothes for their male characters than putting any effort into making female characters.

 

[dancinginfernal]

So?

I could care less, I'm still going to buy it .

 

[Anti Nudist Cupcake]

Veeeeeery few women are gonna play this game, many more men will. It makes more sense that they polished it for the larger crowd that will be buying it rather than making the feature mediocre for both genders.

 

[notevenhere]

GAH! damn this thread is filled with so many opinions without solid evidence to back them up (I'd only expect this in a religious forum actually), Splash Damage thought the Customers would love to see a much more deeper customisation rather than to have maybe a third (if they were lucky) of the possibilities with a "female" option tacked on. Get over it, it's their decision, I thought James from Extra Credit already explained this quite thoroughly to be honest./thread

Gah! Damn this post is filled with so much dribble!

Solid evidence? Of what? I challenge you to scour through the 76 odd posts, or at least 1 per user, and find some evidence thats in favour of YOUR argument, rather than demanding that of other people. Fact is, we're not in any sort of environment to find out EXACTLY what everything is, and we shouldn't be criticised because of it. Opinion and speculation is the simplest way to get a discussion rolling, and that's exactly what we have here - I don't see you offering much else besides a "look at me I watch a show here, better argue that this topic is not one for debate and entirely decided by somebody with a show on t3h int3rn3ts".

 

[irishstormtrooper]

Think about how many first-person shooters let you customize to that level how you look. Now, think about how many FPSs there are total. Honestly, be thankful that they put in this level of customization at all, rather than ***** about how there isn't quite enough.

 

[notevenhere]

Veeeeeery few women are gonna play this game, many more men will. It makes more sense that they polished it for the larger crowd that will be buying it rather than making the feature mediocre for both genders.

When you can't appease everybody, appease the majority. I like you. Keep living.

 

[Cavan]

Do you want a valid reason why not?

Female chars are almost universally smaller and are thus harder to see/hit, and so used by people who do not want to be hit by bullets.
Unless you want to piss people off more by having girls but only letting them play as a certain class then you end up with people using the difference in size to get an advantage, or you use the female char with the male hitbox which can cause it's own problems.

Have seen this abused in shooting games before, so there ya go, a valid gameplay reason.