British Teachers Still Blaming Games for Schoolyard Violence

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Elementary - Dear Watson

RIP Eleuthera, I will miss you
Nov 9, 2010
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"Sadly, there is a noticeable correlation between the children who admit to playing games and those who come to school really tired," she added.
So... it's the parents fault!? Seriously, I grew up without a TV in my room, I wasn't allowed, and my parents would notify me when it was time for bed, and that is when I went... I wasn't hard done by, I turned out absolutely fine, and I have no history of violence, even though I grew up with that media too!

Good use of image in this article too... depicting a scene from a movie based on a book which shows kids being violent, written well before games were invented!

Hell look at even older books with kids and violence... Tom Sawyer starts with him getting into a scuffle...!
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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DirtyJunkieScum said:
Teachers have very little power. It may seem like they do to the well behaved and disciplined children but to the kids who actually realise it they are absolutely nothing. They can't allocate resources, they can't expel a pupil without LEA approval, they can't touch a pupil in any way without getting in shit and the little fuckers know this. In the UK teachers basically have the power to stand in front of a class and talk at them. That's about it. You can shout at them if they get out of hand but if they don't respond to that there is little you can do. If the parents wont discipline them then that's it, unless the LEA lets you give them the boot you can't even expel them, children have to be educated legally so if no other school will take them you are screwed, even suspensions can and will get appealed.

As far as OT goes I've already made my contribution: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.362348.14219579
(Ego thanks you!)

I'd also like to add to your statement that suspensions will get appealed. Not only will they usually be appealed, they'll usually be overturned for the following (stupid) reasons:

1. School boards will mistake the parent being apologetic for the child intending to make a behavior change.

2. People outside the classroom, with an idealized belief that "everyone is a golden sunflower just waiting to unfurl" or whatever, will believe that every child is just itching for a chance at redemption... and no one wants to be the jerk that says, "I don't believe you're really that sorry, so we're upholding the punishment."

3. It's more politically savvy to be the guy that "gambled on the kid but lost" than the guy that "didn't believe the child could change." And school board is often just a stepping stone to higher political offices, which means your term is basically just a campaign for reelection.

4. Because of #3, it's about pleasing the voters. And more voters are parents than they are teachers, so you want to always come across as being on the parents' side. Since far too many parents are ruled by their children, that also means being on the kid's side.

5. When push comes to shove, and you just want the issue off your desk, you can fire a teacher -- but you can't fire the parent. So, you jiggle the only lever that moves for you.
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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I'm just tired of this s***. By now, there are two kinds of people - people with half a brain, and who realise that there is no demonstrable correlation between gaming and real life violence, and people who are missing half of their brain. But of all people, I would have thought teachers would belong to the former, having seen the kids' development well enough to know that gaming has nothing to do with it.
 

ReiverCorrupter

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PureIrony said:
Kids beat the shit out of each other because we are living in an age which glorifies violence to an almost masturbatory extent. That, and the fact that everyone in this generation seems to have no sense of self-control, and that should go double for children.
This is because we live in an age where both parents work and are too busy to raise their children so they stick them in front of the TV or buy them a Game Boy. This means that the newest generations are increasingly being raised by media rather than their parents. This doesn't bode well for humanity considering the media is capitalistic and profits by instilling consumerism in its viewership. The more impulsive people are the more profits there are to be made. This is not to say that capitalism is a bad thing. Capitalism is merely an economic system, and a generally efficient one at that. Consumerism, on the other hand, is a hollow and destructive value system.

OT: Violence is a perfectly natural part of human nature. It's true that it is destructive most of the time, but that doesn't mean that we should shy away from depictions of violence and pretend that we're something that we're not. You know what's bad? Fantasizing violence. People used to live in small communities where they would see violence and death on a regular basis, kids watched their fathers hunt, their mothers slaughter livestock, and their elderly and sick die. This lent gravitas and concreteness to the concepts of death and violence. In contemporary society we hide real death away in hospitals and slaughterhouses. We're only exposed to death and violence through the distortion of the media. Everyone thinks war is like Rambo or Call of Duty. There are very few accurate depictions of war in the media, Saving Private Ryan might be considered one, but it still isn't the same as being there.

Another thing you have to remember about war is that it has changed radically over the past few centuries. War used to be a lot more personal, back when people fought with swords you used to look your enemy in the face when you killed him. That was no doubt a powerful experience, but it might actually have been LESS traumatic than modern war. The reason I say this is because modern war is random. You generally don't even see where the bullets come from, and the impression is that you'll be struck down by random chance and that you have little power over your own survival. Old warrior cultures used to praise war and warriors because they had a strong sense of agency in war. Your skill, bravery and physical strength were often what led to your survival, so it makes sense to instill value systems that promote these attributes. This leads not only to the success of individuals but also societies (yes, like it or not, war-like societies are generally more successful than their peaceful counterparts, largely because they tend to conquer their peaceful counterparts).

The contemporary mindset regarding warfare is best expressed in the principle of "sacrificing yourself for your country". That's why the media celebrates soldiers who die trying to save their comrades, rather than soldiers who kill a copious amount of enemy combatants. This is necessary because it is the only real way to deal with the horror and randomness of modern warfare. But video games express pretty much the polar opposite of this value system. They're just plain unrealistic. This is fine as long as people don't mistake video games for reality. The problem is that children need their parents to explain this distinction to them.

The sad fact of the matter is that, yes, the parents are to blame. The parents are pretty much always to blame because at the end of the day it's up to them to talk to their child and make sure they are developing properly. If the media is distorting their child's perception of reality then they need to deprive the child of the media. If a parent doesn't have the time to do this then they shouldn't be a parent. No one has a right to have children because children are human beings, not property. By bringing a child into the world a parent has taken upon him or herself a duty to provide that human being with the best care possible. If we start passing laws that are intended to make up for the failings of parents we are essentially admitting to the destruction and cultural irrelevance of the human family. Sad, but this is probably the way society will inevitably become. George Orwell and others were right to be skeptical of socialist movements that sublimated the role of the parents to that of the state in a child's upbringing. What they were tragically unaware of was the capacity for this same type of sublimation to occur naturally in capitalist societies where children are largely left to be raised by TV and other forms of digital media while their parents go off to work and then come home to vegetate in front of those same types of media.
 

Da Orky Man

Yeah, that's me
Apr 24, 2011
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PureIrony said:
Kids beat the shit out of each other because we are living in an age which glorifies violence to an almost masturbatory extent. That, and the fact that everyone in this generation seems to have no sense of self-control, and that should go double for children.
Hardly. Go back any amount of time in history and you'll see more violence today. Hell, Somalia is considerably more peaceful than medieval Europe.
 

Nurb

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Dec 9, 2008
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ResonanceSD said:
Nurb said:
FUCKING AD-BASED CAPTCHA - Describe Apple in one word: POISONED CHILD COMMUNIST LABOR

Out of interest, did it accept that answer?
It gave me a captcha error, then a typical captcha request the second time around XD
 

ReiverCorrupter

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DirtyJunkieScum said:
Actually, I'm going to have to take that back in this case, The Telegraph article does say this:

"Infants are being allowed to stay up until the early hours playing 18-rated games such as Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto because of a failure by parents to impose greater controls, it is claimed."
INFANTS?!?!? I would LOVE to see an infant try to play CoD. Lulz. Not sure if the Telegraph knows what an infant is.

DirtyJunkieScum said:
So Grey Carter's Headline should be "British Teachers say Parents are Ignoring age restrictions on Games, British press writes an article about it and tacks a load of other crap on the end then the Escapist publishes another sensationalist article based on that with just enough misdirection to stir up the frothing masses."
Good call.
 

Lunar Templar

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Sep 20, 2009
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chadachada123 said:
I once pounced on a kid and attempted to beat him up because he took my Gameboy and threatened to delete my Pokemon save. We had a substitute teacher that day, heh. Fourth grade.

Good times. (Edit, might as well put how long ago that was, that'd be just over twelve years ago, late 2000 or early 2001, damn time flies...)
well, that's a totally justifiable ass kicking.

if some one deleted my save on White. I'd probably put em in a wheel chair for the rest of their lives
(i have a LOT of Pokemon i can't replace)
 

justnotcricket

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Apr 24, 2008
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Although I'm entirely sure kids act out violent scenes from videogames (and movies, and books, etc), the buck still has to be passed back to the parents, who are responsible for monitoring what their children consume (media and food) and regulating how much of it they consume. They're also responsible for trying to teach their children right from wrong, and how to manage their impulses, etc.

Blaming videogames (or any other form of media) is parents and teachers looking for an excuse not to do their jobs.

EDIT: Ah, I see the title of this was a bit misleading, and parents are copping some of the flak. Good show! My point still stands for other, similar outlets for this kind of news.
 

DirtyJunkieScum

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Feb 5, 2012
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ReiverCorrupter said:
DirtyJunkieScum said:
Actually, I'm going to have to take that back in this case, The Telegraph article does say this:

"Infants are being allowed to stay up until the early hours playing 18-rated games such as Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto because of a failure by parents to impose greater controls, it is claimed."
INFANTS?!?!? I would LOVE to see an infant try to play CoD. Lulz. Not sure if the Telegraph knows what an infant is.
"Infants" might refer to the attendees of "Infant school", the name given to the first 4 years of primary education in the UK. "Infants", or "Juniors" (which at the time we amusingly felt indicated seniority) for the last 4 years were common forms of address to a group of children from that part of school and was a common noun for them too. That said, it might just be the Telegraph trying to pull heartstrings.
 

jklinders

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Sep 21, 2010
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Dastardly said:
We disagree about a bit of crap.

The article is about teachers blaming games for violence at schools. BS. The school system is broken.

Throwing more money at it won't fix it. Seriously. That has been tried many times many places. It failed.

But if it is happening at school then part of the problem is there. Maybe where you are at administrators were never teachers. Here it is a different story. Most principals were teachers. They are definitely part of the problem.

blaming the taxpayer for not putting more into a broken system is counter productive as would any further replies between the 2 us would be.

You will still get no sympathy from me. And I could care less how hard you think the job is. But how the job is being done is part of the problem and yo u can't get away from that. Sorry if you don't like hearing that from the sidelines. But it's not my job. It's yous deal with it.
 

emeraldrafael

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Jul 17, 2010
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The only thing I can say is, everytime ive been in a fight or brought in front of somene because of a "violent" tendency only once was it cause of videogames and thats cause I used a game system in the... altercation.

though this is getting old.
 

MegaManOfNumbers

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Mar 3, 2010
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This my friends is called logic failure. Just because there is correlation it DOES not mean it is a direct "cause and affect" relationship.

British Teacher logic:

Some kids are violent.
Some kids play games.
Therefore violent kids play video games.

It makes sense at face value, but read closer; this is a GENERALIZATION.
 

DirtyJunkieScum

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Feb 5, 2012
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jklinders said:
Dastardly said:
We disagree about a bit of crap.

The article is about teachers blaming games for violence at schools. BS. The school system is broken.

Throwing more money at it won't fix it. Seriously. That has been tried many times many places. It failed.

But if it is happening at school then part of the problem is there. Maybe where you are at administrators were never teachers. Here it is a different story. Most principals were teachers. They are definitely part of the problem.

blaming the taxpayer for not putting more into a broken system is counter productive as would any further replies between the 2 us would be.

You will still get no sympathy from me. And I could care less how hard you think the job is. But how the job is being done is part of the problem and yo u can't get away from that. Sorry if you don't like hearing that from the sidelines. But it's not my job. It's yous deal with it.
No it's not, or at least only indirectly, it's really about teachers blaming parents for not looking after their kids properly. Yes, the way schools are run in the UK is shit.Teachers do not run the schools however.

It might help a bit, but yes, general agreement.

Headteachers are not administrators. The board of governors and the LEA are.

Again, general agreement, but lack of money is a problem, it's just that adding more money won't help unless certain other elements are fixed.

Yes, how the job is being done is a problem but here's the thing, you don't just do whatever the fuck you like in a job, you have rules to obey, guidelines to adhere to or you are out. You are blaming the shop assistant at Game for the shitty state of the company. He's just a shop assistant. He can't do much about it.
 

ReiverCorrupter

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Jun 4, 2010
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DirtyJunkieScum said:
ReiverCorrupter said:
DirtyJunkieScum said:
Actually, I'm going to have to take that back in this case, The Telegraph article does say this:

"Infants are being allowed to stay up until the early hours playing 18-rated games such as Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto because of a failure by parents to impose greater controls, it is claimed."
INFANTS?!?!? I would LOVE to see an infant try to play CoD. Lulz. Not sure if the Telegraph knows what an infant is.
"Infants" might refer to the attendees of "Infant school", the name given to the first 4 years of primary education in the UK. "Infants", or "Juniors" (which at the time we amusingly felt indicated seniority) for the last 4 years were common forms of address to a group of children from that part of school and was a common noun for them too. That said, it might just be the Telegraph trying to pull heartstrings.
Well, I'm not sure if that proves anything more than the fact that the school system in the UK has named its school levels improperly. The common definition of an infant is a child that has not yet learned to speak. Then again, I say aluminum, you say aluminium. I say math, you say maths. I say chips, you say crisps. I say cookies, you say biscuits. Etc. One can chalk it up to cultural differences I guess.
 

DirtyJunkieScum

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Feb 5, 2012
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ReiverCorrupter said:
Well, I'm not sure if that proves anything more than the fact that the school system in the UK has named its school levels improperly. The common definition of an infant is a child that has not yet learned to speak. Then again, I say aluminum, you say aluminium. I say math, you say maths. I say chips, you say crisps. I say cookies, you say biscuits. Etc. One can chalk it up to cultural differences I guess.
Don't make me start with the "Hand Egg" comments.
 

bigfatcarp93

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Mar 26, 2012
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If... Alright, IF... children are becoming more violent (unlikely), and IF it's because of violent video games (even more unlikely), then it's STILL not the fault of the games, it's the fault of the parents who have failed to monitor what media their kids are recieving. Video Games are RATED by the ESRB, thus relieving the games and their developers of any responsibility for this. If you have the common sense not to take your kids to see an R-Rated movie, then you have no excuse to be stupid enough to allow your kids to play an M-Rated game. End of Story.
 

ReiverCorrupter

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DirtyJunkieScum said:
ReiverCorrupter said:
Well, I'm not sure if that proves anything more than the fact that the school system in the UK has named its school levels improperly. The common definition of an infant is a child that has not yet learned to speak. Then again, I say aluminum, you say aluminium. I say math, you say maths. I say chips, you say crisps. I say cookies, you say biscuits. Etc. One can chalk it up to cultural differences I guess.
Don't make me start with the "Hand Egg" comments.
The "Hand Egg" thing doesn't really work considering the shape of Rugby balls. Though I agree, American Football would make more sense if it was called "American Rugby" or "Padded Rugby". Putting that aside, I think the difference between a "game" and a "sport" is that a sport allows for intentional controlled violence and encourages contact. Some people make the distinction contact vs. non-contact sports, but I just don't think there is such a thing as a non-contact sport.

Rugby; sport. American Football; sport. Hockey; sport. Lacrosse; sport. Field hockey, Shinty etc.; sport. Water Polo; sport. Wrestling; sport. Etc. (Though not Boxing or Martial Arts, I consider fighting to be different than sport. Wrestling doesn't count because the goal is to pin the other person, not beat them into submission. While some martial arts competitions function like this (you're not supposed to hit with full force in Karate but are measured by a points system), their ultimate goal is to teach you how to fight.)

Basket Ball; game. Football/Soccer; game. Cricket; game. Baseball; game. Tennis; game. You get the picture. This is not to denigrate games, they require a lot of skill, can be very entertaining and can be every bit as physically demanding as sports. But there's just something more virtuous about sport. Bleeding heart liberals would probably complain that it promotes violence, or the sexist ideal of manly virtue. But I frankly view them as a bunch of whiny over-reacting complainers who are out of touch with the nature of the world around us and thus I really couldn't give less of a crap about their values.

So if it's Football/Soccer against American Football, then I'm going with American Football. Though I'm open to the argument that Rugby is superior to Football because the lack of pads makes it rougher, so I wouldn't say that it's an entirely cultural thing.