Bullying: Stop the complaining.

[ClockworkPenguin]

I don't know how it is in the states, but in my experience bullying is pretty much never a case of getting beaten up for your lunch money. It's a prolonged barrage of low level harassment. No one event could possibly justify violence. There is nothing to 'stand up to' its just a daily grind of unpleasantness that sucks any enjoyment out of the environment.

I mean, someone says a couple of unpleasant things to you, what can you do about that by yourself. Pretty much nothing. Getting aggressive is both disproportionate and gives them a hilarious reaction encouraging them to do it again. Asking them to stop is hardly going to work. The only successful move is to turn it around and put the joke on them. Which works fine, unless you're outnumbered, which you almost certainly will be, in which case they and their friends can force the consensus that you lost any particular battle of wits.

So then, you get that every day. And because you're powerless you start to dread these run-ins, and you start to think that it must be your fault somehow, because other people don't get picked on. And it ruins everything about school for you.

That is what happens if you go it alone. That's why explaining the situation to someone with the authority to do something about it is the best thing you can do. It's not passing the responsibility to someone else any more than calling the cops shirks your responsibility to protect yourself from muggers.

 

[Darknacht]

Which is why I always called out bullies with the simple line "Look, I'm not going to argue with you, you want to keep calling me that/treating me that way/ doing that to me, then lets meet at the park."

So your advice would be to have kids tell the bully to meet them in a location away from school so the bully can beat the shit out of them with out the pesky teachers interfering, yeah that sounds like a great idea.
I found the best way of dealing with bullies is by making them think you're about snap, bring a gun to school and kill them. I find that manically laughing while they are trying to beat your head through a locker door usually does the trick.

 

[Palademon]

I know people who got publicly beaten in their school by a crowd of people while the teacher cheered them on.

 

[GAunderrated]

I would love to create a long post talking about personal experiences, what I agree with, and what I don't. However, truth is people LOVE talking about bullying being such a problem but in reality everyone has seen bullying at one point or another and NO ONE did anything about it for whatever reason. I just feel like everyone is a hypocrite about this subject, saying they care but never do anything when they see it.

I'll give a brief summary of my bullying experiences. When I was younger in jr. high i was bullied for being fat and I told teachers, principal, and friends. No one made a real effort to help. I actually had a teacher tell me to "deal with it" at one point. I was so angry I couldn't see straight. The following lunch one of the kids ran up and grabbed my side fat and made cow noises, I proceeded to grab a chair from the caff and landed it square on that kids face breaking his nose and a bit more damage. I got suspended, reprimended, and punished however, no one bullied me ever again.

I understand this is not a one size fits all solution and in this society there are consequences for standing up for yourself, but I believe that if you are bullied and no one will help you have to take matters into your own hands. You can run or face it. I choose the latter but I don't blame people who choose the former, it is their choice.

 

[viranimus]

This is something I HOPE I have been ninja'd on by now... but I doubt it.

Stop bullying to bully people into ending bullying.

 

[Vkmies]

I agree with you. Maybe I was never bullied enough, but really. I do not understand how "bullying" as it was explained to me by a dictionary, could make someone commit suicide, unless they were suicidal before. Just don't get it and that makes it hard for me to feel empathy towards the people who kill themselves because of it. I wonder how many people die yearly because of bullying. Probably quite a bit less than children who die of hunger, war or something like that. But bullying seems to be the media-sexy thing right now, so that's what we have to listen right now.

 

[Smolderin]

Bullying is a rather sensitive subject for me, considering I was severely bullied for a straight 5 years back in school...and quite honestly..I can't exactly pinpoint why...but I feel a bit offended by what you have said. I am really doing my best here not to get defensive, so I won't try and to make this into a rant. I will just say my peace and leave it at that.

For many people such as myself, bullying isn't something you could have just ignored..especially if you were being targeted..and especially if their is more than one person after you on a day to day basis. And if you fight back...they don't respect you..they just get angry and beat you up...usually harder and longer than they usually do. Fear is a favorite, and effective weapon bullies have in their arsenal, and it can be used to equal effectiveness whether it be verbal or physical abuse. That fear is crippling...it leaves you frozen, unable to "defend yourself".

For people who do this....simple telling a teacher has the same result as physically defending yourself. They get angrier...more aggressive..and you draw more attention to yourself. They don't care if they get into trouble....they have got into trouble before and what do they get? Not anything that is going to save you, save for expulsion.

And on the subject of expulsion, every school I have been to save for one private school had the policy that if you get into a fight...even if you defend yourself...automatic expulsion. Now believe it or not, as far as I was concerned, expulsion necessarily something I wanted to happen...yet another fear added on to the others.

Point is, there are many types of situations dealing with bullies and many of them cannot be solved with your solutions. Just remember that.

 

[Athinira]

The issue is this. WHY is bullying being presented in such a way today that it seems to make people want to jump off tall building?

While i agree that there needs to be more focus on kids who defend themselves from bullies, the rest of your post can be replied to with one sentence: One solution does not fit all!

Listen: People don't jump off buildings because of how bullying is represented by the media (or other people). People do it because that's their alternative. Some people have stronger psyches than others, and not everyone can cope with the problems like you do, and certainly not everyone has the courage to stand up to bullies, even if they're told to do it. For someone who mentions bully-victims taking their own life, you certainly haven't put a lot of thought into WHY they do this. Taking your own life at a young age is not a decision to be taken lightly.

It's worth noting that some kids who stand up to bullies have actually been beaten to death because they misjudged the situation (some bullies are more than bullies, they're almost - or soon to be - gangs), or at the very least beaten up badly.

Dealing with bullies is always going to be a different experience for everyone. Some can stand up to them on their own. Some can do it with support from parents/school. Some are too scared and needs outside help to remove the problems (remove the bullies, move away themselves, or somehow distance themselves from the problem).

 

[BrassButtons]

Most of the OP has been pretty well handled by other people, but I just wanted to address this point:

Disagreements or bullies that took things to far usually ended up in the park, where we settled things with fists. One of us usually got the point after that.

And did you ever understand just how incredibly dangerous fist fighting is? Punching is a form of blunt-force trauma. It can cause injuries ranging from minor bruising to paralysis, brain damage, and death. People who are trained fighters--people who spend time learning where they can and can't safely hit someone, and who get into the ring with the specific goal of not causing serious injury--sometimes accidentally send their opponent to the hospital. The risks are even higher with people who don't have proper training, such as kids.

You may have been lucky enough that none of your fights ended with someone going to the ER, but not everyone is. Supporting such a nonchalant attitude toward fighting is dangerous (and there's already a body count associated with this attitude--it may not be very high, but it's a hell of a lot higher than it needs to be).

 

[Rule Britannia]

I think it's wrong to focus in on one instance of bullying, like the media always does, and forget about it in a few weeks. I, personally, haven't heard anything about Amanda Todd in the last 3 weeks. That's not to say you haven't heard anything regarding her.

Disclaimer to the following video:
TheAmazingAtheist gives a farrrrrrr more exaggerated version of my opinion but he does have a valid point. I do not agree with all of TheAmazingAtheist's opinions.

 

[BrassButtons]

Double post.

 

[zehydra]

I fully agree with others on here that bullying is totally unacceptable.

But to answer OP's idea of standing up for yourself: Even if you wanted to, and engage in violence with the bully, you'd most likely be expelled, with the bully staying in school.

 

[epidemia]

Maybe if kids didnt immediately log onto facebook after school(or whatever social networking site they prefer)using their real name, to try yet again to fit in with the kids who just got finished tormenting them all day then maybe just maybe they might find something else to think about. Lets just face it here, that girl whatsername, wallowed in self pity and made overly dramatic videos trying to get attention. Good god by the expression of unending suffering she wore on her face you would think she was forced to watch her family burned to death and not just get called names. I dont think she really considered the finality of death and was probably curious as to what the comments would read after she killed her dumb self.

I was bullied in school, a LOT. But when it came time to leave that place I found peace and happiness in my room with my beloved videogames. I shudder to think how my life might have turned out if instead I invited my bullies home with me night after night.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Wouldn't a more apt solution to the bullying problem be to teach kids to stand up for themselves and others?

Not every kid has the social, mental or physical fortitude to defend themselves.

Your view is extremely narrow minded as you are grading others by your own standards.

 

[Ambitiousmould]

This has probably already been said, but bullying is a criminal offence (where I'm from anyway) so people shouldn't have to just "deal with it" if someone stole your TV or raped you, would you just "deal with it"? you can tell the police. they can help if it is serious.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Maybe if kids didnt immediately log onto facebook after school(or whatever social networking site they prefer)using their real name, to try yet again to fit in with the kids who just got finished tormenting them all day then maybe just maybe they might find something else to think about. Lets just face it here, that girl whatsername, wallowed in self pity and made overly dramatic videos trying to get attention. Good god by the expression of unending suffering she wore on her face you would think she was forced to watch her family burned to death and not just get called names. I dont think she really considered the finality of death and was probably curious as to what the comments would read after she killed her dumb self.

I was bullied in school, a LOT. But when it came time to leave that place I found peace and happiness in my room with my beloved videogames. I shudder to think how my life might have turned out if instead I invited my bullies home with me night after night.

That's something I don't get about cyber bullying -- what possesses these kids to accept friend requests from their tormentors, or worse, to send them? I was bullied in middle school, too, and while it was before the advent of social networking, I knew I hated those assholes and didn't want anything to do with them. In fact, when one of those middle school bullies sent me a friend request years later, did I accept it? Hell no, I declined it. I had a (very) small group of friends in middle school, and if Facebook had existed then, they would have been on it. Maybe some of the people who I had class with but was neither friends not enemies with, too. But the bullies? Hell no.

If you're wondering why I haven't mentioned High School, it's because the vast majority of the bullies either went to different schools from me or were the type who stayed in middle school until the age of 16, at which point they dropped out (in fact, one of the worst bullies was 16 when I was 12. Try fighting back against /that/). The rest had either dropped out, been expelled, or sent to an alternative school by sophomore year in high school. There was one guy who was constantly trying to start middle school grade shit all the way to Senior year, but he never got anywhere with it. Mainly I think because his dickishness and stupidity made him more of an outcast than anyone. So if there's any middle school or early highschool kids reading this, in the middle of hell: hang in there. It gets better, and the bastards will eventually get theirs.

 

[Gregory McMillan]

Should we tell victims of rape and sexual harassment to just deal with it? Should we have told slaves back then to deal with it? Why do we live in a culture where there are people who insist on leaving the status quo as it is?

I can understand you trying to empower bully victims but shouldn't you strive to encourage a world where this doesn't exist in the first place? Some stand up to bullies and prevail. Zangief kid is an example. Others try their best but are either not physically strong enough, outnumbered, hampered by a lazy education and bureaucratic investigation system, or have serious depression or other psychological disorders. Some are afraid of being kicked out of school, their job, etc. as was the case of that bus monitor. Your experience with bullies is not the same as everyone else's. There are multiple factors in a bully situation that "man up" just doesn't cut it.

On top of that, bullying has evolved. The psychology off child bullies and their victims have evolved. There's stalking, continuous threats, and cyberbullying which is becoming particularly nasty.

 

[Legion]

You know /why/ nobody fights back against bullies anymore OP? It's because schools across the country have zero tolerance policies on fighting that lead to equal punishments for both parties, regardless of who started it or why. The bully usually doesn't give a crap about those punishments. The one getting bullied usually does. It's a vicious cycle.

Of course, what gets me is those same school systems have zero tolerance policies on bullying, but they never seem to do anything about it. The policies on drugs and violence, sure -- kids have been suspended for having aspirin and playing cops and robbers, for Pete's sake -- but bullying? They seem to have an unofficial "Don't ask, don't tell, and as long as I didn't witness it it didn't happen" policy on that one.

Indeed.

When I was at school they used to love preaching on about "Always tell a teacher" but when a teacher was told they always played it down or ignored it. That is not to say that fighting is the solution, but I'd say school staff are frequently a large hindrance to bullying being dealt with.

 

[Andrew Drake]

WALL OF TEXT INCOMING!

Tl;Dwtr (Too long; Didn't want to read) How about this for a situation in which "manning up" can't be done. The TEACHER, the FUCKING TEACHER, is a bully, and eggs the student bullies on.

This merits explaination.

I had a really bad time during all of my schooling. Mostly from being a borderline-Deist in the middle of the Bible Belt (and in High-School rumors of me being Gay because I turned down a girl who asked me out[Pigs spontaneously grew wings at the event]). You will not believe how quickly that gets a entire class to turn on you. I spent seven years getting bullied, getting slapped, poked, prodded, tackled, and punched on a daily basis and having the teachers look the other way because I live in a town with about seven last names, including mine. Then add in being ostrasized by the entire student body for my lack of strong religious beliefs, and having several people a week scream at me that I was on the fast-track to Hell. At least for most of my time there I didn't have the Teachers get in on the bullying.

Fifth grade that changed. My teacher was one of those charming people whose pictures should be on the Wikipedia page for Intolerance. She made a point of going into an "This is just what we are required by law to teach" whenever anything that disagreed with her Book showed up. Evolution, survival of the fittest, the Big Bang, if it disagreed with her Book she would go into long speeches about how it was nonsense the state forced her to teach. Suffice it to say, we did not agree. She made a point of being "busy" frequently so that people could pick on me. I had to keep my pencils and paper supplies in my backpack so nobody would steal them. Half the time that didn't stop anyone from "borrowing" my stuff.

That came on top of the teacher actually belittling me if I made a mistake, refusing to help me if I didn't understand something fully, and being willing to throw any punishments she could at me if i so much as thought about fighting back against the bullies. I did try to go above her head to the school principal once, which didn't work out so well since they were cousins.

In short, no you can't "Man up" to solve that problem. I couldn't even go over my teacher's head. The situation lasted the first six months of the year, and I was considering borrowing my father's pistol for a few minutes to end everything. Then something great happened, another person who didn't quite have the local faith arrived. We were both given the "YOU ARE GOING TO HELL! REPENT!" treatment from everyone, but I really didn't care since there was someone I could actually talk to and seemed to value my continued existence.

Slightly off Topic: Notice that social support structures are important there. Just having ONE person who cares can save your live.

We made it through the year. She moved away. I didn't. Junior year in high-school i get pulled out because I made a suicide attempt, and because the Superintendent refused to deal with a student bringing a knife to school to threaten me with (Reason was that the student was his nephew). Oddly enough that year was probably the one where my life got very weird. On top of knife-threats and getting a black-eye (oddly enough not from bullying, I fell in the school fountain), the female portion of the student body stopped it with the whole "REPEEEENNNTTTT!" gig. One asked me out, another got into the habit of engaging me in Insult Contests, and the rest just stopped talking to me. The male portion started... well knife-threats, fistfights that I couldn't fight back in without getting suspended or expelled from the school, stealing my things from my locker, and giving me good reason to avoid the lunchroom(spaghetti is impossible to get out of hair without proper tools).

Home-Schooling gave me time to get myself back together.

So tell me this, if you still think i should have just "manned up" and solved my own problems, how do you fight an entire school? One where if you fight anyone bonds of blood relations and friendships that stretch back to when the people involved were in diapers will drive at least three other people to retaliate against you. One where the teachers and principals all turn a blind eye because their nieces and nephews and cousins couldn't possibly have started a fight. One where I only had one friend for six months, and she got it worse because she wasn't just a "Don't believe that whatever is out there cares enough about us to pay attention to what we do" person and more of a "no gods, anywhere" person.

Seriously. This damn thing is a problem. Its not disagreeing with someone. Its not them beating you up and taking your stuff. Its slow, its insidious, and reacting to anything is almost always going to be called overkill. The process is simply treating someone like they are below pond-scum on your list, and getting other people to either do the same thing or avoid the person like the plague. I have a ton of empirical evidence as to the results, you begin to believe that they are right. You loose your self-worth, your grades take a nose-dive into the crapper, and eventually you start to ache constantly. You get sick a lot, as the stress it causes weakens your immune system. Then it gets worse. You get depressed, you stop wanting to live, to experience life. You just want to curl up into the fetal position and cry, and after that goes on you eventually want out of the pain so badly that you are willing to kill yourself to get out.

And even if you get out without killing yourself like I did, you will still feel the effects for years afterwards. You will have nightmares, the kind that you wake up drenched in sweat and crying from. You will have to avoid things you associate with the bullying like the plague for a few years because there is a very good chance that they will trigger a nervous breakdown. Not to mention sometimes you will break down anyway.

So yes, bullying is a problem that NEEDS to be fixed, or at least existing laws and school-regulations against it need to be enforced, and people need to stop saying that people need to MAN UP and handle it themselves. That kind of person is an idiot who believes that force can solve any problem. That kind of person should actually experience what bullying is in the twenty first century and see how shitty they feel as a result. Especially when you have over twenty people who have dedicated a considerable amount of their time to tearing you apart.

I don't care that the adult world is full of bullies, bring them on. But there is a difference between an adult having twenty people dedicated to trying to tear them apart, and a child going through the same thing. Children are more vulnerable by virtue of having less emotional maturity. They can't see the bullies as jerks who just want a reaction, they see someone who they are hard-wired to want the approval of disapproving of them. Adults can pull the "Fuck this, I'm done" method and find a way out themselves, they can get a different job if they have a abusive boss, they can pull the "threaten with lawyers" card to shut people up, and they can go home after work and come home to their family who actually depend on them. Children by comparison CAN'T leave that school most of the time, most teachers turn a blind eye to bullying and if you get in a fight both people wind up punished so anyone who follows the rules to the letter can't even try to fight, and most of the time their families can't really figure out how to help or even how to be there for them in a way that helps them get through it.

An adult getting bullied, they can shrug it off because they have enough maturity, memory, and reasons to disprove the bullies to shrug it off. Children are wired to seek out praise and acceptance from their communities, have next to no memories, and few accomplishments to draw self-worth from. They literally CANT take bullying most of the time. The few that can are exceptions, not the bloody rule.

Andrew James Drake, out.
Damn the guilt, my past is dead. - Gav, Miracle of Sound, Distant Honor