Bungie Explains (Internally) Controversial Halo: Reach Ending

[_Cake_]

Sad endings feel like a cop out to me, they just seem pertinacious.

 

[Korias]

Here's a thought then: Say three years from now, what would you all do if Microsoft/Bungie released some sort of patch the same way Valve did for Portal, that changed the ending so that Noble 6 actually escapes Reach somehow if the player manages to fulfill a certain set of conditions? Would that have changed your opinion on the ending for better or for worse?

 

[Sonic Doctor]

it would of been better had a covenant ship started glassing the area instead of the waves of enemies.

the current ending is pretty bad in my opinion, sure the planets doomed, so why let us fight for an extra five minutes?

The ending was awesome, I felt it was the best way creatively to end the game. The whole "Survive" play was poignant. It gave me an adrenaline rush. It is the whole idea of, you know it is a lost cause, but you will fight to the bitter end and take down as many of the Covenant bastards as you can.

I get the same feeling when I think of Davy Crockett trying to fight off the Mexican army to defend the Alamo. (I loved that movie as a kid.) If you don't have feelings concerning such endings, you don't have the spirit of a warrior. A true warrior never gives up, even if it is a lost cause.

That is why the "Survive" ending of Reach was so powerful.

 

[Baldr]

Ending is fine with me , it is what I expected honestly, what I don't like is they messed up some of the story of The Fall of Reach which is a good book and didn't bother explaining that.

 

[The87Italians]

I'm not a Halo fanboy by any definition, but I did play through this one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the developer commentary says that Jun survived, doesn't that completely break the whole story of "OMG Master Chief is the last Spartan"? I think they should've killed Jun off if they wanted the story to be consistent.

Read some of the other posts. If you read the books, you'd know he isn't really the last Spartan alive.

I haven't read the books, nor will I ever, most likely. I played the first 2 Halo games, abandoned the series as a whole, and decided to give Reach a chance. I'm hardly the shining example of someone who knows who all lives and "what really happened". Besides, weren't the books and such written *after* the original game? I'm going only based on what I know from just the first game. It seems like they kind of cheated the story by writing all this stuff afterwards about Spartans surviving, just because it'd be the kind of thing that would sell the books or something. Just me?

I wouldn't say they cheated the story by writing the books, they just revealed more to the overall arc that didn't just involve Chief on Halo (although I will say the second book was really just the first game on paper). If you play just the first three games without any outside media source telling you what's going on, then you really only know what he knows, I.E. that he is the last and only Spartan alive.

 

[Badger Kyre]

"Do not waste your tears
I was not born to watch the world grow dim
Time is not measured in years
But by the Deeds of men" - WarHammer 40k, 1st edition.

 

[Siuki]

snip

Johnson was kind of lame in Halo 3, i.e. crashes pelican, captured, second mission bomb plant fail, and getting capped again in the Covenant mission, but finally dies like a punk when protocol dictated action. Stupid 343. Guilty Spark.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Having not read anything up to the release of Halo Reach(to avoid spoilers) I honestly thought when I recieved Cortana that I was the Chief, until Noble 3 died. By the way, They should have shown Noble 4 dying as well.

Since you said you hadn't read anything about Halo, I'm going to take it that you didn't know the difference between five of the members of Noble Team and Master Chief. So I guess I will give you a small lesson about Spartan classes. Noble 6, Kat, Carter, Jun, and Emile, are Spartan 3's. Jorge was like Master Chief, a Spartan 2. Spartan 3's are of course smaller and not as powerful. If you didn't notice it, look at the difference between the other Noble Team members when Jorge is standing next to them. If you had known that the Chief was as Spartan 2, than you would have known that Noble 6 wasn't the Chief.

 

[Daipire]

I thought the ending was good.
I was specifically picked to be Cortana's escort, which if you'll remember Cortana says in the opening of Halo 3 that she chose specifically Master Chief ("They let me pick...").

Then, when I had to go to the Pillar of Autumn, that sealed it for me, I was positive that my dude was the Master Chief and was smiling at the prospect.
Then out of no where, I ran off to kill a Corvette while the Autumn flew off without me.

In closing, while it was a sad ending with a big twist, and I was very happy with the idea of my guy living, I was pretty moved by the doctor's speech at the end.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Here's a thought then: Say three years from now, what would you all do if Microsoft/Bungie released some sort of patch the same way Valve did for Portal, that changed the ending so that Noble 6 actually escapes Reach somehow if the player manages to fulfill a certain set of conditions? Would that have changed your opinion on the ending for better or for worse?

I would be pissed if they went back and changed it so that Noble Six survived Reach. If he did survive, that would remove all emotion and power that the ending of the game has. It would ruin the game for me. I think the ending was one of the best parts of the game.
-------
On the Portal thing, was there just a patch for the PC version of Portal? Because after I heard that there was a patch that changed the ending, I turned on my 360 and stuck in the Orange Box and played through again with no change. There wasn't a sign that I could download a patch from the Live Marketplace.

 

[Korias]

Here's a thought then: Say three years from now, what would you all do if Microsoft/Bungie released some sort of patch the same way Valve did for Portal, that changed the ending so that Noble 6 actually escapes Reach somehow if the player manages to fulfill a certain set of conditions? Would that have changed your opinion on the ending for better or for worse?

I would be pissed if they went back and changed it so that Noble Six survived Reach. If he did survive, that would remove all emotion and power that the ending of the game has. It would ruin the game for me. I think the ending was one of the best parts of the game.
-------
On the Portal thing, was there just a patch for the PC version of Portal? Because after I heard that there was a patch that changed the ending, I turned on my 360 and stuck in the Orange Box and played through again with no change. There wasn't a sign that I could download a patch from the Live Marketplace.

Interesting. From what it seems though, most of the players had built up hope that perhaps Noble Six's fate wasn't set in stone. As it stands, Master Chief is the only remaining Spartan II, whereas there could be a number of Spartan IIIs running about if the books are to be considered cannon. The situation here is that Bungie/Microsoft is coming in much later and adding an alternative to the cannon dependent upon whether the player has the skill and drive to, for lack of a better phrase, "finish the fight". In effect, the ending is determined by whether the player actually survives in this hypothetical situation. Sure, the current ending is one of the most moving pieces of gameplay that I have experienced, but there is also a sense of defeat that lingers. Sometimes, the player needs to have that sort of hope validated. Especially since the ending is also expected: We know even before opening the box to get the disk that this is a hopeless fight. Isn't there a piece of you that would rather be proven wrong about that certainty?

As for Portal, AFAIK Valve never releases any sort of patches for it's console games at this time. The Transmission Received achievement was strictly PC IIRC.

 

[Ensiferum]

That's gonna kill my enjoyment of reach somewhat (totally my own fault though) because I hate any fight you have to lose. It's like the following Starcraft 2 spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

the final mission in that memory crystal where you're the protoss fighting wave after wave of zerg/protoss hybrids. No way to win except to lose.)

The nice thing about that one though is that it's only a "vision" of the future and doesn't actually happen.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Interesting. From what it seems though, most of the players had built up hope that perhaps Noble Six's fate wasn't set in stone. As it stands, Master Chief is the only remaining Spartan II, whereas there could be a number of Spartan IIIs running about if the books are to be considered cannon. The situation here is that Bungie/Microsoft is coming in much later and adding an alternative to the cannon dependent upon whether the player has the skill and drive to, for lack of a better phrase, "finish the fight". In effect, the ending is determined by whether the player actually survives in this hypothetical situation. Sure, the current ending is one of the most moving pieces of gameplay that I have experienced, but there is also a sense of defeat that lingers. Sometimes, the player needs to have that sort of hope validated. Especially since the ending is also expected: We know even before opening the box to get the disk that this is a hopeless fight. Isn't there a piece of you that would rather be proven wrong about that certainty?

As for Portal, AFAIK Valve never releases any sort of patches for it's console games at this time. The Transmission Received achievement was strictly PC IIRC.

Coming into the fight of Reach, knowing that it was a hopeless fight and having information from the books, I expected Noble 6 to die at the end. I was eager to find out how Bungie would handle that important aspect of the story, which they did spectacularly. I didn't want to be proven wrong. I wanted to have a different feeling at the end of a game for a change. Because in every game I have played, I always knew that my character would live if I ever beat the game. I loved it because I have never played a game that had such an atmosphere and concept of an ending in such a way as Reach did.

--------

On the Portal thing: That's good to know, thanks.

 

[Miles Tormani]

Here's a thought then: Say three years from now, what would you all do if Microsoft/Bungie released some sort of patch the same way Valve did for Portal, that changed the ending so that Noble 6 actually escapes Reach somehow if the player manages to fulfill a certain set of conditions? Would that have changed your opinion on the ending for better or for worse?

I would react the exact same way that I did when I found out that Valve changed the ending to Portal.

"Are you fucking kidding me?"

The most infuriating possible cop-out to make room for a sequel is to go back and change the ending to the prior game just so the sequel doesn't have to make stupid explanations. Or, god forbid, do something slightly original with new and interesting characters. Especially when it comes to a game that is, for all intents and purposes, complete and standalone.

EDIT: Furthermore for Portal, the fact that the patch was only on the PC version made it even more infuriating. Oh, so not only are you changing the ending, but you're not allowing me, an equally valid customer, to see your "proper" ending? Piss off.

 

[FBPH]

Kat was, apparently, too damn stupid to turn on her freakin' shield as a single shot to the head from a needle rifle is no where near sufficient to punch through even on the hardest difficulty.

I seem to remember that right before she was shot, they were hit by a bit of the radiation blast the covenant fired at the city. Remember they were saying the covenant were all retreating en masse and the radiation burst was close? Wouldn't it be safe to say that the radiation jammed their shields? Or that the whole purpose of the radiation blast was a massive emp? I mean its documented fact that strong radiation has adverse effects on electrical equipment.

Well that was my theory. I would be pissed if it was all Kat's dumb fault she died. I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt on this one.

 

[FBPH]

Yeah Bungie did technically leave a plot hole or at the very least one character alive from Noble Team which was the sniper. They did not settle that Spartan's fate since the sniper split up to escort the doctor to safety and you didn't see it get shot down or anything. So technically there is the potential to have a second spartan still alive. Glad I wasn't the only one that noticed that when playing through.

Wasn't it mentioned right before the space mission that the entire facility was overrun by the covenant and that probability of staff and advance team survival was nonexistent?

 

[Timbydude]

Is it just me or didn't Jun die? He just escorted Halsey off the planet.

And Jorge got teleported... Somewhere, with an intact covenant corvette and 2/3 of a super carrier

Jun has to have died at some point because John-117 is said many times to be the last SPARTAN when Halo: Combat Evolved begins. Maybe he died off-world while protecting Halsey again?

OT: Reach's ending is an example of how to use the video game medium as an effective storytelling tool. If they had just flipped on a cutscene of Noble Six getting killed by Covenant, it wouldn't have had nearly the same effect as the way they actually pulled it off.

I still remember the point where I thought to myself "Wow, there's...no way I can win. There are just too many of them. I'm going to die." To feel that powerlessness firsthand was an effect I can't say too many other games have had on me.

 

[Suskie]

No complains here about the ending, that part was awesome, but Kat's death... c'mon, could you really not think of anything better to do with that?

I disagree. Most of the Spartans went out in a blaze of glory, so it was nice to see a death that was sudden and without warning, which is probably more realistic anyway.

The only problem I had with that was shields.

Even if they had put them buzzing out and her dying from the same shot I would have accepted it but we didn't even get a shimmer.

Meh, you start applying video game rules to cutscenes and you're gonna start wondering why Cloud and the gang didn't just use a Phoenix Down on Aeris.

 

[fulano]

Square did it first with Crisis Core. Funny how people seem to come up with the same stuff but from different kinds of places.

What do you mean, a last stand type ending? That idea has been around for centuries, Bungie or Square didn't 'come up' with it.

I really liked the ending. It was a bit of a cop-out that it cut to video after you died, but that's understandable. Good to see they atleast gave the player some kind of control. I still think the best type of last stand ending in recent media is in Scarface.

DANGER++++++SPOILERS++++++DANGER++++ULTRA-VIOLENCE+++++++DANGER+++++++SPOILERS

Did I say Bungie or Square came up with it? Also, I'm talking about videogames.

Jeez...

 

[Lazarus Long]

Hmm. That actually sounds badass enough to make interested in trying Halo again. Well played, Bungie. Well played.