Bus driver uppercuts woman

[Kellogs Fried Chickn]

[user]Uhura[/user], if you think we live - or should live - in a world where no one needs to use physical violence on others, do you also believe that we should not be verbally/mentally/physically harassed/threatened/insulted/demeaned? If so, how should one act when something like that is done upon him or her? How do you figure you would able to stop an unruly human yourself, when the bystanders will not intervene? Do you act against them, allow them to act this way upon you and take solace that they are wrong and you are acting the proper way?

But yes, striking the head is never good and should be avoided. I haven't seen the video and don't know what kind of nearby bystanders there were. If the driver was not certain that the nearby passengers would support him forcefully detaining the woman until the cops arrived then a blow to the head was justified. Without support from nearby passengers detaining her could bring about a bad case scenario of the detainee aggravating bystanders into action to their benefit, not to mention later 'female' claims.

 

[Kellogs Fried Chickn]

[user]Uhura[/user], if you think we live - or should live - in a world where no one needs to use physical violence on others, do you also believe that we should not be verbally/mentally/physically harassed/threatened/insulted/demeaned?

Such a society cannot possibly exist. Conflict is built into every single species... Nor would you want to live in such a world.

Which was kind of my point. When confronted with an unruly aggressor she has to either become a conflicting party or allow the aggressor to live him or herself out on her.

Conflict isn't 'built into' any species. A species consists of many smaller regional groups, subregional, families and individuals, the more capacity one has the more varied group one is able to deal with. We start of by only caring about 'us', and we grow from there - well most of us.

You underestimate my fondness for dystopias, I'd take an agreeable authoritarian state over a bs democracy. But the big issue here is the bystander apathy or however you like to call it. People in crowds don't get involved when they really should, and that is something many aggressors actually exploit.

 

[Whitbane]

Jesus, that was one hell of a punch. This accounts for the earthquake I felt and mysterious broken windows in my house not long ago. I was just waiting for "Fatality" to appear onscreen.

 

[Kellogs Fried Chickn]

Conflict isn't 'built into' any species.

Actually it is. Its hardwired at the genome level.

I was not aware that species had genomes but only individuals. How would that work?

this is offtopic, so let's move to the PM realm.

 

[Uhura]

[user]Uhura[/user], if you think we live - or should live - in a world where no one needs to use physical violence on others, do you also believe that we should not be verbally/mentally/physically harassed/threatened/insulted/demeaned? If so, how should one act when something like that is done upon him or her? How do you figure you would able to stop an unruly human yourself, when the bystanders will not intervene? Do you act against them, allow them to act this way upon you and take solace that they are wrong and you are acting the proper way?

But yes, striking the head is never good and should be avoided. I haven't seen the video and don't know what kind of nearby bystanders there were. If the driver was not certain that the nearby passengers would support him forcefully detaining the woman until the cops arrived then a blow to the head was justified. Without support from nearby passengers detaining her could bring about a bad case scenario of the detainee aggravating bystanders into action to their benefit, not to mention later 'female' claims.

I think we should strive towards a world where none of us is needlessly "verbally/mentally/physically harassed/threatened/insulted/demeaned?" There are obviously plenty of real life situations where following those rules is not possible/wise/needed. And as I have already mentioned, I'm fine with using violence in self defense, as long as the person doesn't go overboard with it. I'd advise you to watch the video because it really gives you a better idea of what happened. I think that the uppercut was excessive but there are plenty of other people here who disagree.

 

[Ken Sapp]

Can't really tell too much from the video. But on the topic, be nice to people in customer service positions. They have to deal with the entire range of humanity from the truly angelic to the outright bastards, day in and day out and they are required to be courteous to a fault while doing it. Is it so hard to understand that they occasionally crack and flip out on some customer who likely deserves to be told off? It doesn't make overboard flip outs excusable but it is understandable. Can anyone really say that they could suffer the abuse that people in customer service professions deal with on a regular basis without reacting similarly or worse on occasion?

 

[AngloDoom]

Again, you cite the POSSIBILITY of her getting seriously injured the same way a paranoid man would say a satellite could fall on them if they leave the house.

She can get hurt in a lot of ways, especially standing next to a bus driver and distracting him. She could have fell when the bus stopped, hit her head, and became a brain dead vegetable.

The fact of the matter is she put herself in danger the moment she messed with that driver. Her safety doesn't matter when it comes to the safety of the bus itself and everyone in and around it. She couldn't listen to reason, and the only way to force her off is to actually be physical. Not try the "no boo boo" route, which never works in a real situation unless you have at least two people.

She gets a little boo boo? Too bad. Since she can't die or get actual brain damage just from that one punch, the worst she might get is a bruise. Those go away, and people move on.

You act like everyone falls apart if someone touches anyone else. She got stunned and tossed off the bus, that's it. You make it sound like she was thrown into a wood chipper by Hitler himself.

Oh, come on now. I've been watching this discussion for a while now and this is getting plain silly. You're comparing the dangers of a big man giving you a full-blown uppercut to stepping outside with a straight face and I honestly don't know how.

The simple question is, do you think that this man could have phoned the police or pushed the woman off of the bus without giving her an uppercut? If not then I respectfully disagree, but you seem to think the only way to deal with the situation is to go one step further than the person involved and that's how these things escalate.

It's understandable that the driver was shouting and insulting the woman in the video, but he should have kicked her off just for yelling at him down the bus. He kept her on the bus so he could argue with her, then from there the two kept things escalating until they ended up getting physical. Both are at fault, I'd say the woman more than the man, but neither acted as a sensible adult should have. I'm not saying I could have done better in the situation, but I certainly wouldn't say that was the only course of action once I'd calmed down.

 

[Kellogs Fried Chickn]

I think we should strive towards a world where none of us is needlessly "verbally/mentally/physically harassed/threatened/insulted/demeaned?" There are obviously plenty of real life situations where following those rules is not possible/wise/needed. And as I have already mentioned, I'm fine with using violence in self defense, as long as the person doesn't go overboard with it. I'd advise you to watch the video because it really gives you a better idea of what happened. I think that the uppercut was excessive but there are plenty of other people here who disagree.

Yes, strive toward such a world but you use the words needlessly and overboard. Should we find common parameters and teach them to the next generation, would it help? A little, but ultimately the aggressor and victim are the ones who have to determine the need and extent to which they need to act based on their perception of the situation. One nearby person without bystander apathy would resolve many of these public space conflicts.

Your advice remains unfollowed as I get the "account terminated" error and lack the interest to search for it.

 

[AngloDoom]

No, he couldn't. You know why?

You have to do it quick in a fight. The "no boo boo" route demands at least two people.

Why? Because you need 4 hands to hold down 4 limbs. If you just hold the hands, she knees you in the balls. If you hold her legs, she starts punching. If you try to tackle her and hold all her limbs down at once, you get charged with attempted rape. You need something that is clearly visible, and fast

In order to make it safe, you need a stunning punch and throw her out. Less contact with a fast response time.

Since the passengers couldn't help (the lazy fucks were trying to capture a youtube moment), you needed to go the hard way.

I was talking about a shove. As in, pushing your arms out quickly so that she stumbles out of the bus; something which is probably as fast (or faster) than winding your whole body down for a punch. I wasn't talking about grabbing her arms and leading her out of the bus.

Also, you really thing it's that easy to charge someone with rape? A bus full of people see a man, who has come under constant verbal assault, hold a woman down and suddenly they all say 'yup, rapist'. That's ridiculous sensationalism.

Secondly, American cops don't care. They will take too long to get there, especially in bad neighborhoods. They always do. The only time they respond quickly is when a gunman starts a massacre or when someone is dead.

A lot can happen in the 30-60 minutes they can take to get there. American cops have a lot to deal with, often with much worse crimes.

But he didn't even attempt it. Sure, a lot can happen in 30-60 minutes, but I'm not so sure a woman who'd be filmed assaulting and harassing a bus-driver while he was driving the bus would stick around to see what happened. Even if she did, he would have at least tried something passive first.

third, he didn't keep her on the bus. Stop making shit up.

I've seen plenty of people thrown off buses for less. The fact that she was still there and that he was arguing with her is due to the fact that he didn't do anything about it earlier. The man clearly isn't some patron saint of patience considering he's throwing immature insults back at immature insults, so why wasn't she thrown off earlier? I'd say it's because he was arguing with her, which in turn escalated the events.

Fourth, he cant be waiting around for cops. He has a job to do, and its his responsibility to remove the mentally unstable from the bus.

I'm not familiar with policies regarding bus-drivers in America, but I'm pretty sure he is not contracted to 'remove the mentally unstable from the bus' and I'm pretty sure that, if there are any rules regarding how to act when coming into contact with that kind of behaviour, you should shout insults back, get angry, and eventually uppercut her.

--

Look, in the end it comes down to a matter of viewpoints. I personally believe there were other roads this man could have taken that he didn't try, or at least the video didn't show him try, and that means he used excessive force in my mind. I don't think the uppercut shown in that video is a 'quick stun', but a full blown punch with weight behind it. It doesn't look at all as if that man held back on his punch and that's where, to me, it becomes apparent that he'd lost his temper and just wanted to hurt somebody.

Just as how you accused Uhura of making out people are made of glass, I'm going to go ahead and say you're making people out to seem as if they're all made of iron. That woman was not a threat to such a large man as to warrant such force. She was probably half his weight: it'd be equivalent to me punching a 5.5st (77lbs) teenager with all the weight I had behind it because we were bickering. You think that's justified, I don't, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, okay?

 

[___________________]

This song came to mind when I saw the uppercut.


Flawless victory.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

See...it's funny because someone being a mouthy asshole actually got some comeuppance for a change.

I don't condone any of the behaviour exactly. But it does appeal to the part of me that despises how we, as a society, let people like this become absolute social-monsters by our inability/unwillingness to correct them. Fear is a powerful motivator. Sometimes "could you be nice please?" isn't.

 

[RubyT]

Beautiful punch! I didn't see her attack him though, so I don't see how this is self-defense. The brain says: bad thing. The heart smiles nevertheless, mouthy ***** got what was coming.

 

[AwesomeDave]

***** got what was coming to her... most likely she treats people like that on a daily basis to get her way.



Equality: You want the rights, you have to take the responsibilities that go with it.

Edit: I mis-punctuated =/

 

[amadhatter]

the lesson to learn here is bring exact change for the bus or you'll get KTFO by a senior citizen.

 

[Ethan Bewley]

that was an amazing uppercut, bus drivers got one heck of an arm. My bus driver has a mustache so I'm not gonna upset him any time soon