Buying my first handgun, looking for suggestions and input

[Dirty Hipsters]

This. I don't want to be the guy who starts the requisite guns debate, but I just don't get how owning a piece means you'll get better at handling it, versus setting yourself a decent rental schedule at the shooting range.

I really can't afford to judge anyone, though. Where I'm from, we tend to have a very "Gunz? LOLWHUT? These are for cops!" policy, which guarantees that your average Joe knows jack shit about them pew-pews and boom-booms.

If you really feel you need one for your personal protection then, jeeze, allow me to be impressed and possibly dismayed, seeing as this seems to imply your neighbourhood is very dodgy. I'm probably wrong, but hey. Sheltered Canadian white dude speaking, here.

If you're just a casual shootist, well... Have fun? I guess?

Every gun is a little bit different. No matter if it's the exact same model, and was made at the exact same factory, it'll feel a little bit different than every other gun out there, the trigger will have more or less play, the slide will move a little more or less sharply, there's a lot of little things that make every gun different from every other gun. The problem with this is that once you get to be a really good shot, these things begin to matter, you need everything to be consistant. Knowing exactly how far back you're pulling back the trigger, and exactly how much the gun is going to recoil, and then how much the slide hitting the front of the gun is going to pull your aim downward after the shot, all of these things begin to matter in your accuracy, and these are things you can only predict if you actually own your own gun, not renting one from the range.

That's a pretty wide range we're looking at here.

Any specifics you'd like to share about what you hated about the SIG? That should make proper suggestions much more worthwhile.

Any reason why H&K products are absent from your list?

I absolutely hated the trigger on the Sig p226 that I shot. The trigger didn't have a crisp feel at all, it felt soft, and you had to pull it too far back in order to get the gun to fire. The first time I tried to fire it I pulled the trigger back to about where it would be for a glock to fire. Nothing happened. I thought the gun was fucking jammed, but no, it turned out I had to just pull it ridiculously far back. Really fucked with my aim. I don't know if this was just because the gun I was using was poorly maintained, or if all Sigs are normally like this, but I absolutely hated it.

There's not H&Ks on that list because the shooting range I go to doesn't have very many, so I've never gotten to try one. Friend of mine recommended the H&K p2000 to me though, so I'll see what I can dig up on one of those.

 

[Gergar12_v1legacy]

I would get a m1911 trp, Its heavier, but has lower recoil, and being a all steel frame very durable. If you want a lower price handgun just get a plain 1911.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

You might want to say where you live, what jurisdiction and so on. Lots of stupid state laws about things.

Firstly, I don't own a handgun.

Secondly, I'm of two minds of this. On the one hand, if I was wanting to get a handgun, I might go for a service weapon of a force that is close to my heart. The Browning Hi-Power, for example, used by Commonwealth forces throughout WW2, still in use today.

On the other hand, not being military, getting a military handgun for that reason might seem a bit disrespectful. If you're just using it for the range, you don't need a service weapon anyway, why not go for something a bit weird, like a 4 barreled break open derringer (the COP 357 comes to mind), or that double barreled revolver where you can swap the cylinder to fire 22 rimfire or a larger centrefire bullet. Or a Taurus Judge which fires .410 bullets or shotshells, or the PLR which is like a seriously cut down AR-15. So many weird guns out there.

Well, more complicated the gun or the mechanism, the more it breaks down and you have to maintain it. The military likes simple, reliable designs for handguns, not deadlier ones, just so in the rare case it is needed, the user doesn't have to worry about it. That is why they used the 1911 for almost a hundred years even though it was obsolete only 20 years later. Also, any caliber above .357 magnum for a handgun is basically overkill unless you go hunt elephants, because the recoil can hurt you wrists and hands if you aren't used to it.

 

[TheMann]

Snipping part of the OP

Okay, I'm not down for any sort of other debate so this is directed squarely at the OP.

For starters you've mentioned the CZ models vs the Beretta 92FS (civilian M-9)[footnote]There's pretty much no difference between the "M-9" and the "92FS" other than what's stamped on the side.[/footnote] Between these two I'd go with the CZs. They're both service models and while the Beretta is definitely an accurate weapon, my complaints against it is that, for an automatic, it seems to have a trigger pull that's just a little too long for my taste. It's also not quite as durable as the CZ so given the choice I'd go with the CZ models. Still, if you run across a Beretta that's on sale or used, and you'll save a ton of money then hell, go for it.

Pistols that I've tried and have hated:

Sig p226

Huh. The P226 is one of the most accurate 9mm pistols I've ever fired. But to each his own; I know some people don't like them and Sigs are a bit pricy.

Pistols that I've tried and am ambivalent about:

Glock
Smith and Wesson M&P .45
Walther P99
Springfield m1911 .45

I've used 3 out of 4 of these so I'll try to get to the pros and cons of each one.

Glock
The nice thing about Glocks is that they're very ubiquitous. You can find parts and magazines for a Glock pistol almost anywhere. Just about any handgun accessory imaginable is available for the Glock. They come in all three major auto pistol calibers (9mm para, .40 S&W, .45 ACP). They are reasonably priced, well within your budget, and highly reliable. If you buy one new and anything breaks, you can contact Glock and they will bend over backwards to make things right. Also, the Glock requires no tools at all to field strip and can be taken apart for inspection or cleaning in seconds. That and, unlike the Beretta and CZ, it has a captive recoil spring, making it less of a hassle to put back together.

However, there are some things that can turn people away from Glocks. For starters it has a polymer chassis, which is used to make the gun lighter for carry purposes. While it's still very durable, some people simply prefer the more solid feel of a steel frame. If metal is what you're used to, polymer can take some getting used to. I personally don't have a problem with it. Also, consider that Glocks are hammerless pistols that are fired with an internal striker. [footnote]The logic behind this is that internal parts are harder to damage and when the gun is drawn, there's no hammer that might accidentally snag on something.[/footnote] This design makes them single action only (SAO). Basically there is no way to de-cock the pistol without removing the magazine and then using a pin switch. The gun will not fire when the striker is de-cocked. It also has no manual safety catch. There is a trigger safety which prevents the gun from firing unless your finger is squarely on the trigger, but it's something to consider if you're super-duper safety oriented.

Smith & Wesson M&P .45
This is the one I haven't used or handled, so I have to plead ignorance. However, your post piqued my curiosity so I Googled it. Here is a pretty good review of it. [http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/02/tyler-kee/gun-review-smith-and-wesson-mp-45c/]

Walther P99
I'm a bit biased towards the P99 because it's the one I use. I've owned mine for 7 years and have only had one malfunction, mostly due to the fact that I hadn't cleaned it in 500 rounds. Even then, the gun still fired safely, the casing just didn't eject properly. I cycled the slide manually and it worked fine again. Like the Glock, the P99 is a polymer framed, striker fired pistol. Unlike the Glocks, the P99 has a de-cocking button that is flush with the slide. When de-cocked, the P99 will be in double action mode making it a bit safer but still ready to fire, albeit with a much heavier trigger pull. As far as I know, it is the only striker fired single/double action pistol around. The grip is incredibly comfortable and has a removable backstrap that can be changed out to accommodate different hand sizes. Also like the Glock, stripping the P99 requires only your hands and is easily done. It is also designed for fully ambidextrous use.

The thing about the P99 that some people don't like, is that it has a very unique two-position trigger system. I personally love it, as it allows for a short quick action when the trigger is in the rear position or a more deliberate one in the forward position. Some people hate this. I let a friend use my gun at a range, and after he went through a mag, he handed it back to me and told me how much he thought it sucked. Also, it has a slightly shorter barrel than some other full sized pistols so it may take just a little more practice to find the mark. The magazine release is a lever built into the trigger guard as opposed to a button on the grip which isn't a problem except you might not be used to it. Lastly it may be above your budget. I got lucky and found a used one for a good price. New, they were running about $775, but like all guns, it depends on what state you live in. As with anything, check online.

M1911 .45
There are several manufacturers that make M1911 type guns, the original being made by Colt. There's no doubt that these are sexy looking weapons. They're big, intimidating, fire the .45, have a great heft and feel absolutely solid in your hands. There's a reason this model type is still being made after a whole damn century. Magazines are cheap as there are tons of mil-surplus ones you can find online for next to nothing. There are also so many variations on the 1911 from enough companies, that you can find one that has just about everything you want. it has both a manual safety lever and a backstrap safety that prevents the gun from firing if your hand isn't firmly on the grip. Very few people I've met that have one of these regret the purchase. If you do get one, I highly recommend investing a very small amount of money in a Packmayr grip. [http://www.pachmayr.com/home/signature-grips-wo-backstraps.php] The 1911 can a little chunky to hold, but a Packmayr makes it comfy and easier to control.

Of course the main problem with the M1911, is that they're really fucking expensive. If $650 is your budget, you might be in for a bitter disappointment. The Colt basic model is easily one of the cheapest, as are some of the lower end Springfields, but you take a massive hit on accuracy with these ones. The higher end models made by Springfield are much better, as are the ones made by Kimber, the latter are widely considered to be top of the line. My friend has a Kimber and you can damn near drive tacks with the thing, but he shelled out close to $2000 for it. The magazines have a relatively low capacity as well (8 rds.). Also, they are more complex and, relative to modern designs, an absolute ***** to disassemble for cleaning.

Another model you might seriously consider is the Springfield XD. [http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php] They're similar to a Glock, but have the added bonus of both a backstrap safety like the 1911, and a visible "chamber loaded" indicator on the top of the slide so you can immediately tell if there's a round in the pipe or not. The two I've used performed very well at the range.

Well, that was a wall 'o text. If you read it, I hope it helped.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Snipping part of the OP

Okay, I'm not down for any sort of other debate so this is directed squarely at the OP.

For starters you've mentioned the CZ models vs the Beretta 92FS (civilian M-9)[footnote]There's pretty much no difference between the "M-9" and the "92FS" other than what's stamped on the side.[/footnote] Between these two I'd go with the CZs. They're both service models and while the Beretta is definitely an accurate weapon, my complaints against it is that, for an automatic, it seems to have a trigger pull that's just a little too long for my taste. It's also not quite as durable as the CZ so given the choice I'd go with the CZ models. Still, if you run across a Beretta that's on sale or used, and you'll save a ton of money then hell, go for it.

Pistols that I've tried and have hated:

Sig p226

Huh. The P226 is one of the most accurate 9mm pistols I've ever fired. But to each his own; I know some people don't like them and Sigs are a bit pricy.

Pistols that I've tried and am ambivalent about:

Glock
Smith and Wesson M&P .45
Walther P99
Springfield m1911 .45

I've used 3 out of 4 of these so I'll try to get to the pros and cons of each one.

Glock
The nice thing about Glocks is that they're very ubiquitous. You can find parts and magazines for a Glock pistol almost anywhere. Just about any handgun accessory imaginable is available for the Glock. They come in all three major auto pistol calibers (9mm para, .40 S&W, .45 ACP). They are reasonably priced, well within your budget, and highly reliable. If you buy one new and anything breaks, you can contact Glock and they will bend over backwards to make things right. Also, the Glock requires no tools at all to field strip and can be taken apart for inspection or cleaning in seconds. That and, unlike the Beretta and CZ, it has a captive recoil spring, making it less of a hassle to put back together.

However, there are some things that can turn people away from Glocks. For starters it has a polymer chassis, which is used to make the gun lighter for carry purposes. While it's still very durable, some people simply prefer the more solid feel of a steel frame. If metal is what you're used to, polymer can take some getting used to. I personally don't have a problem with it. Also, consider that Glocks are hammerless pistols that are fired with an internal striker. [footnote]The logic behind this is that internal parts are harder to damage and when the gun is drawn, there's no hammer that might accidentally snag on something.[/footnote] This design makes them single action only (SAO). Basically there is no way to de-cock the pistol without removing the magazine and then using a pin switch. The gun will not fire when the striker is de-cocked. It also has no manual safety catch. There is a trigger safety which prevents the gun from firing unless your finger is squarely on the trigger, but it's something to consider if you're super-duper safety oriented.

Smith & Wesson M&P .45
This is the one I haven't used or handled, so I have to plead ignorance. However, your post piqued my curiosity so I Googled it. Here is a pretty good review of it. [http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/02/tyler-kee/gun-review-smith-and-wesson-mp-45c/]

Walther P99
I'm a bit biased towards the P99 because it's the one I use. I've owned mine for 7 years and have only had one malfunction, mostly due to the fact that I hadn't cleaned it in 500 rounds. Even then, the gun still fired safely, the casing just didn't eject properly. I cycled the slide manually and it worked fine again. Like the Glock, the P99 is a polymer framed, striker fired pistol. Unlike the Glocks, the P99 has a de-cocking button that is flush with the slide. When de-cocked, the P99 will be in double action mode making it a bit safer but still ready to fire, albeit with a much heavier trigger pull. As far as I know, it is the only striker fired single/double action pistol around. The grip is incredibly comfortable and has a removable backstrap that can be changed out to accommodate different hand sizes. Also like the Glock, stripping the P99 requires only your hands and is easily done. It is also designed for fully ambidextrous use.

The thing about the P99 that some people don't like, is that it has a very unique two-position trigger system. I personally love it, as it allows for a short quick action when the trigger is in the rear position or a more deliberate one in the forward position. Some people hate this. I let a friend use my gun at a range, and after he went through a mag, he handed it back to me and told me how much he thought it sucked. Also, it has a slightly shorter barrel than some other full sized pistols so it may take just a little more practice to find the mark. The magazine release is a lever built into the trigger guard as opposed to a button on the grip which isn't a problem except you might not be used to it. Lastly it may be above your budget. I got lucky and found a used one for a good price. New, they were running about $775, but like all guns, it depends on what state you live in. As with anything, check online.

M1911 .45
There are several manufacturers that make M1911 type guns, the original being made by Colt. There's no doubt that these are sexy looking weapons. They're big, intimidating, fire the .45, have a great heft and feel absolutely solid in your hands. There's a reason this model type is still being made after a whole damn century. Magazines are cheap as there are tons of mil-surplus ones you can find online for next to nothing. There are also so many variations on the 1911 from enough companies, that you can find one that has just about everything you want. it has both a manual safety lever and a backstrap safety that prevents the gun from firing if your hand isn't firmly on the grip. Very few people I've met that have one of these regret the purchase. If you do get one, I highly recommend investing a very small amount of money in a Packmayr grip. [http://www.pachmayr.com/home/signature-grips-wo-backstraps.php] The 1911 can a little chunky to hold, but a Packmayr makes it comfy and easier to control.

Of course the main problem with the M1911, is that they're really fucking expensive. If $650 is your budget, you might be in for a bitter disappointment. The Colt basic model is easily one of the cheapest, as are some of the lower end Springfields, but you take a massive hit on accuracy with these ones. The higher end models made by Springfield are much better, as are the ones made by Kimber, the latter are widely considered to be top of the line. My friend has a Kimber and you can damn near drive tacks with the thing, but he shelled out close to $2000 for it. The magazines have a relatively low capacity as well (8 rds.). Also, they are more complex and, relative to modern designs, an absolute ***** to disassemble for cleaning.

Another model you might seriously consider is the Springfield XD. [http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php] They're similar to a Glock, but have the added bonus of both a backstrap safety like the 1911, and a visible "chamber loaded" indicator on the top of the slide so you can immediately tell if there's a round in the pipe or not. The two I've used performed very well at the range.

Well, that was a wall 'o text. If you read it, I hope it helped.

Thanks a lot for your lengthy and very in-depth post. This is the kind of stuff I was hoping to get from this thread. Unfortunately from the post I'm going to venture a guess and say that you misunderstood what I meant by "pistols that I am ambivalent toward." I meant that they are guns that I have fired, and somewhat liked, but that they have problems which would prevent me from wanting to actually buy and own one at this point in time. This unfortunately means that while you provided great information in your post, these are already guns that I am dead set not to get right now (though I will probably be buying the Walther sometime in the future, because I still liked the gun, even despite it's flaws. Will definitely have to put some work into it customizing a little to get it to feel right for me).

 

[TheMann]

Pistols that I've tried and am ambivalent about:

Wow, how did I miss that?

Umm... I was fighting off space-ninjas while reading your post? Yeah, that works for me.

 

[anian]

Concern yourself more with the person behind the firearm, and not the firearm itself. It's a tool, just like any other tool in the shed.

Edit: I live in Virginia. People don't need to be registered to carry a firearm strapped to their leg, waist or slung on the back. As long as it's visibly open, you can carry it. I never feel threatened by people with firearms. I imagine I would if they pointed one at me, though.

You never feel threatened by people with firearms walking down the street? Wow, you have a lot unfounded faith in humanity there.

I presume that when going to a range to shoot, people don't carry guns that carelessly, so people on the street that carry them are willing to use them. These people not only mean to use them, but will use them and the level on which they'll judge the usage of a gun is RANDOM, as you said there's not even a need to register.
They carry a gun in fear that others may carry guns or have them just in case somebody wants to hurt them - a paranoid (though maybe justified) mental state in which judgement is again skewed to say the least.

I do understand that people may want to buy a gun and put in a mantel, or keep it in a locked drawer in case your home is being broken into or hunting or just going out to the range and shoot it, it can be fun and relaxing I guess...and you can never be too safe from zombies. But carrying it on the street is whole other thing and a whole other mental condition.
It means you do not trust other people and you do not trust the police for example to keep you from harm and that you are willing to hurt others to achieve your goals - is the person with such an antisocial profile really somebody who should be having the power to kill in a split second? Is this a random unchecked person of any possible stability/reason/mental state/anger issues etc. that you are not afraid?

And btw a gun is a "tool" only if you use the hilt as a hammer on nails, otherwise it's a weapon. Tool is something you use to get a job done, what in the hell is a job where you use guns other than killing or potential to kill?

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

You need to buy this gun:

It is easily concealable and snaps together from a pen, cigarette case and lighter. Bullets are quite pricey (10s of 1000s of dollars, each) but it also comes with a tropical island and tiny butler (shown above). It also kills everything in one shot.

 

[bl4ckh4wk64]

snip

Contrary to what the front page is saying, I really don't like the Beretta 92. It seems like my hands are a bit too large for it, so whenever the slide returns to the original position, it sometimes catches my thumb and scrapes my hand. Apparently I'm not also the only one to have this happen. I mean, it's a downright beautiful gun, but I just prefer my M&P over any others right now, it's the one that feels best in my hand. For handguns, go to the store and ask to see whatever one looks like one you'd buy and is within your price range. See how it feel in your hand, then (while keeping the muzzle not pointed at anyone) try seeing how it feels when you aim with it. Your first handgun shouldn't be something everyone suggests because they think it's good or because it worked with them. It should be whatever feels best in your hands. My first was a P226, and I still love it. However, I recently picked up both an M&P 9 and an M&P 45 and I haven't regretted those purchases in the slightest.

 

[funnydude6556]

I think the gun I have is pretty great, it's a revolver, shoots acid it's reliable and gets the...wait we're all talking about Borderlands 2 right?

 

[TheSapphireKnight]

Springfield XDs are solid. If you are looking for something more exotic without going to crazy I have heard good things about the new FNS-9. Ambidextrous and striker fire with a heftier feel than a glock. Have yet to fire one but it just picking one up felt great and I am not usually taken so quickly with a pistol as I tend towards rifles.

 

[King of Asgaard]

This:

This is the greatest handgun ever made. The Colt Single Action Army.
Six bullets. More than enough to kill anything that moves.
Reloading feels great. There's nothing like the feeling of slamming a long silver bullet into a well greased chamber.

 

[CrazyJew]

Honestly, go to 4chan's /k/ weapons board. It's filled with self proclaimed experts as well as real experts.

 

[Andrewtheeviscerator]

Pistols are for pussys. You need to get yourself a mans gun like a bazooka

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

snip

Contrary to what the front page is saying, I really don't like the Beretta 92. It seems like my hands are a bit too large for it, so whenever the slide returns to the original position, it sometimes catches my thumb and scrapes my hand. Apparently I'm not also the only one to have this happen. I mean, it's a downright beautiful gun, but I just prefer my M&P over any others right now, it's the one that feels best in my hand. For handguns, go to the store and ask to see whatever one looks like one you'd buy and is within your price range. See how it feel in your hand, then (while keeping the muzzle not pointed at anyone) try seeing how it feels when you aim with it. Your first handgun shouldn't be something everyone suggests because they think it's good or because it worked with them. It should be whatever feels best in your hands. My first was a P226, and I still love it. However, I recently picked up both an M&P 9 and an M&P 45 and I haven't regretted those purchases in the slightest.

I know what you mean about getting the handgun that best fits your hands, and what you want out of the gun, that's why I've narrowed it down to the three I have listed. What I basically hoped from this thread was for people who have used those guns to tell me their experiences with them, and tell me about any shortcomings that the guns may have that I had not heard about. There's just somethings that you can't find out by just holding the gun in the store, or shooting 50 rounds through it at a firing range, things that only people who have actually owned the gun would be able to tell you.

 

[Arakasi]

Oh yes.
Now that is a gun.

 

[Monsterfurby]

So, enlighten me, is buying the first handgun in the US the same thing as getting the first car elsewhere?

Seriously, this thread is fascinating in a somewhat eerie kind of way.

 

[Reiper]

The USP, though pricey, is far and away the best handgun i have ever fired

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

So, enlighten me, is buying the first handgun in the US the same thing as getting the first car elsewhere?

Seriously, this thread is fascinating in a somewhat eerie kind of way.

Not at all. In the US getting your first car is like getting your first car everywhere else. It's actually not that big a deal. If I was to compare it to anything, it's like buying a new gaming computer, or some other consumer electronics for entertainment. It's not that big a deal, but you always want to get the best thing in your price range, and people's opinions on what is "the best" highly differ.

A car gives you freedom for the first time in your life, but owning a gun doesn't really give you anything like that (if you're getting it just for the range like I am) it just gives you entertainment.

I don't see what's so eerie about it. I'm not sitting here asking people to choose an implement to help me kill my next victim, it's more akin to asking advice about sporting goods.