buying used games is stupid

[GundamSentinel]

-It's easier to find old games in trade-in stores.

Yes! If I can find games I was looking for for years in a decent state and with a small price tag it makes my day. Some shops always have amazing finds.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Eh, if kids today are playing used games, then they aren't on my lawn. Glass is half full.

 

[NorthernStar]

Quantic Dream's Heavy Rain lost between 5 and 10 million euro's to used sales (ref: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-12-used-market-cost-heavy-rain-1m-sales). Seriously, think about it. That's a huge loss and in the end it will only bite us gamers in the butt as the smaller devs won't be able to overcome these losses.

He said that after the game sold 2 million copies. Which turned a profit for them. And if the "loss" of 1 million sales caused him to "lose" 5-10 million euros, then he must have gained 10-20 million, correct?

Well, you're totally right when you say that the game did eventually make a profit or at least made money (I have no idea how expensive this game was to create.)

But the fact that the game did make a profit isn't really my point, my point is the fact that they could've had 1 million extra sales, but lost those to the used market. It was simply an example of how the used market is costing devs a lot of money. Sure, there are still plenty of people (2 million in this case) who did buy the game new, but it must be frustrating to see so many people playing your game, whilst knowing that only two thirds of them paid you for it.... As Foundamiere puts it:

"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between ?5 and ?10 million worth of royalties because of second-hand gaming."

 

[Soviet Steve]

I think that used games can be a good thing, for example I just bought msg2 and msg3 for 15?, but when it comes to recent ip's I think you should search for options that not only benefit your wallet but also contribute to the industry.

OMG YOU DIDN'T BUY THEM ON RELEASE HOW DARE YOU VILE FIEND I THINK I SHOULD ANNOUNCE MY BELIEF IN THAT ANYONE WHO ISN'T OLD IS STUPID ETC.

Also the above statement is not meant to be taken seriously.

Gaming companies are bunch of rich buggers in far away countries I don't know and don't care about. If I see a cheap way to get entertainment around which wont land me in trouble, I'll take it. Convenience, price and value are the parameters most consumers consider.

If the industry can't function in its current form, it needs to change, the consumer isn't going to be paying for the privilege of babying the industry behind their entertainment.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Quantic Dream's Heavy Rain lost between 5 and 10 million euro's to used sales (ref: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-12-used-market-cost-heavy-rain-1m-sales). Seriously, think about it. That's a huge loss and in the end it will only bite us gamers in the butt as the smaller devs won't be able to overcome these losses.

He said that after the game sold 2 million copies. Which turned a profit for them. And if the "loss" of 1 million sales caused him to "lose" 5-10 million euros, then he must have gained 10-20 million, correct?

Well, you're totally right when you say that the game did eventually make a profit or at least made money (I have no idea how expensive this game was to create.)

But the fact that the game did make a profit isn't really my point, my point is the fact that they could've had 1 million extra sales, but lost those to the used market. It was simply an example of how the used market is costing devs a lot of money. Sure, there are still plenty of people (2 million in this case) who did buy the game new, but it must be frustrating to see so many people playing your game, whilst knowing that only two thirds of them paid you for it.... As Foundamiere puts it:

"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between ?5 and ?10 million worth of royalties because of second-hand gaming."

Annnnnnd that's how the First Sale Doctrine works. Look it up. No other form of media needs money when it comes to second hand sales in order to survive. In fact, how has gaming got this far, considering we've had second hand sales from the word-go, if they are such a problem?

 

[segataDC]

Buying used games that are only a few weeks old for under 20% off - pretty stupid, and directly supporting an exploitative business plan.

Buying older used games that are out of the limelight (and possibly out of production) for 50% off or better - just smart shopping.

you've got it man! simple, but to the point.

now here's an example, imagine you want to buy deus ex:hr asap, which option would you choose:

A- buy it used at gamestop for 53?
b- go to the mall and buy it for 60?
C- or order it online(new) and spend 30? on it

 

[segataDC]

Quantic Dream's Heavy Rain lost between 5 and 10 million euro's to used sales (ref: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-12-used-market-cost-heavy-rain-1m-sales). Seriously, think about it. That's a huge loss and in the end it will only bite us gamers in the butt as the smaller devs won't be able to overcome these losses.

He said that after the game sold 2 million copies. Which turned a profit for them. And if the "loss" of 1 million sales caused him to "lose" 5-10 million euros, then he must have gained 10-20 million, correct?

Well, you're totally right when you say that the game did eventually make a profit or at least made money (I have no idea how expensive this game was to create.)

But the fact that the game did make a profit isn't really my point, my point is the fact that they could've had 1 million extra sales, but lost those to the used market. It was simply an example of how the used market is costing devs a lot of money. Sure, there are still plenty of people (2 million in this case) who did buy the game new, but it must be frustrating to see so many people playing your game, whilst knowing that only two thirds of them paid you for it.... As Foundamiere puts it:

"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between ?5 and ?10 million worth of royalties because of second-hand gaming."

Annnnnnd that's how the First Sale Doctrine works. Look it up. No other form of media needs money when it comes to second hand sales in order to survive. In fact, how has gaming got this far, considering we've had second hand sales from the word-go, if they are such a problem?

companies that have the money to make AAA's titles don't have a problem, but the thing is people will not buy weird, quirky innovative games. people usually think like this: "i'm going to buy battlefield 3 and fifa 12 for christmas! oh that Catherine game looks fun and weird! maybe i'll buy used for 10 bucks".

 

[NorthernStar]

Annnnnnd that's how the First Sale Doctrine works. Look it up. No other form of media needs money when it comes to second hand sales in order to survive. In fact, how has gaming got this far, considering we've had second hand sales from the word-go, if they are such a problem?

Well, it may just be me but I have a feeling the second hand game sales has definitely grown in the past couple of years. I don't know what it's like in the US, but where I live (Europe) the used sales market has grown substantially in the past 5 years. I honestly can't remember there being a substantial used sales market more than 5 years ago. Especially not as big as it has now become.

Either way, I stick to my point that if I have to choose who to give my money to, I'd rather choose the developer than some gamestore.

 

[Michaelis96]

I do buy pre-owned games, I'll admit it, but it's only because most of the games I like are old and therefore cannot be classed as 'new' or I'll look in the shiny book of laminated dreams {AKA the Argos catalogue} to see what's there.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Quantic Dream's Heavy Rain lost between 5 and 10 million euro's to used sales (ref: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-12-used-market-cost-heavy-rain-1m-sales). Seriously, think about it. That's a huge loss and in the end it will only bite us gamers in the butt as the smaller devs won't be able to overcome these losses.

He said that after the game sold 2 million copies. Which turned a profit for them. And if the "loss" of 1 million sales caused him to "lose" 5-10 million euros, then he must have gained 10-20 million, correct?

Well, you're totally right when you say that the game did eventually make a profit or at least made money (I have no idea how expensive this game was to create.)

But the fact that the game did make a profit isn't really my point, my point is the fact that they could've had 1 million extra sales, but lost those to the used market. It was simply an example of how the used market is costing devs a lot of money. Sure, there are still plenty of people (2 million in this case) who did buy the game new, but it must be frustrating to see so many people playing your game, whilst knowing that only two thirds of them paid you for it.... As Foundamiere puts it:

"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between ?5 and ?10 million worth of royalties because of second-hand gaming."

Annnnnnd that's how the First Sale Doctrine works. Look it up. No other form of media needs money when it comes to second hand sales in order to survive. In fact, how has gaming got this far, considering we've had second hand sales from the word-go, if they are such a problem?

Also, take that guy's "estimates" with a grain of salt. He never actually said how he arrived at those numbers. That could just be BS.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Quantic Dream's Heavy Rain lost between 5 and 10 million euro's to used sales (ref: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-12-used-market-cost-heavy-rain-1m-sales). Seriously, think about it. That's a huge loss and in the end it will only bite us gamers in the butt as the smaller devs won't be able to overcome these losses.

He said that after the game sold 2 million copies. Which turned a profit for them. And if the "loss" of 1 million sales caused him to "lose" 5-10 million euros, then he must have gained 10-20 million, correct?

Well, you're totally right when you say that the game did eventually make a profit or at least made money (I have no idea how expensive this game was to create.)

But the fact that the game did make a profit isn't really my point, my point is the fact that they could've had 1 million extra sales, but lost those to the used market. It was simply an example of how the used market is costing devs a lot of money. Sure, there are still plenty of people (2 million in this case) who did buy the game new, but it must be frustrating to see so many people playing your game, whilst knowing that only two thirds of them paid you for it.... As Foundamiere puts it:

"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between ?5 and ?10 million worth of royalties because of second-hand gaming."

Annnnnnd that's how the First Sale Doctrine works. Look it up. No other form of media needs money when it comes to second hand sales in order to survive. In fact, how has gaming got this far, considering we've had second hand sales from the word-go, if they are such a problem?

companies that have the money to make AAA's titles don't have a problem, but the thing is people will not buy weird, quirky innovative games. people usually think like this: "i'm going to buy battlefield 3 and fifa 12 for christmas! oh that Catherine game looks fun and weird! maybe i'll buy used for 10 bucks".

Your comparison fails. Why? Small, third party devs/publishers like Atlus aren't the ones implementing things like Project Ten Dollar. The triple A companies are. Why do you think that is?

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Annnnnnd that's how the First Sale Doctrine works. Look it up. No other form of media needs money when it comes to second hand sales in order to survive. In fact, how has gaming got this far, considering we've had second hand sales from the word-go, if they are such a problem?

Well, it may just be me but I have a feeling the second hand game sales has definitely grown in the past couple of years. I don't know what it's like in the US, but where I live (Europe) the used sales market has grown substantially in the past 5 years. I honestly can't remember there being a substantial used sales market more than 5 years ago. Especially not as big as it has now become.

Either way, I stick to my point that if I have to choose who to give my money to, I'd rather choose the developer than some gamestore.

There has always been so. Trust me.

And don't you mean the publisher? The devs already got paid (Minus a bonus, which they may get if the publisher is nice and the game sold well). False Dichotomy.

Quantic Dream's Heavy Rain lost between 5 and 10 million euro's to used sales (ref: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-12-used-market-cost-heavy-rain-1m-sales). Seriously, think about it. That's a huge loss and in the end it will only bite us gamers in the butt as the smaller devs won't be able to overcome these losses.

He said that after the game sold 2 million copies. Which turned a profit for them. And if the "loss" of 1 million sales caused him to "lose" 5-10 million euros, then he must have gained 10-20 million, correct?

Well, you're totally right when you say that the game did eventually make a profit or at least made money (I have no idea how expensive this game was to create.)

But the fact that the game did make a profit isn't really my point, my point is the fact that they could've had 1 million extra sales, but lost those to the used market. It was simply an example of how the used market is costing devs a lot of money. Sure, there are still plenty of people (2 million in this case) who did buy the game new, but it must be frustrating to see so many people playing your game, whilst knowing that only two thirds of them paid you for it.... As Foundamiere puts it:

"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between ?5 and ?10 million worth of royalties because of second-hand gaming."

Annnnnnd that's how the First Sale Doctrine works. Look it up. No other form of media needs money when it comes to second hand sales in order to survive. In fact, how has gaming got this far, considering we've had second hand sales from the word-go, if they are such a problem?

companies that have the money to make AAA's titles don't have a problem, but the thing is people will not buy weird, quirky innovative games. people usually think like this: "i'm going to buy battlefield 3 and fifa 12 for christmas! oh that Catherine game looks fun and weird! maybe i'll buy used for 10 bucks".

Then perhaps the game companies should focus on making AAA titles rather than quirky things if they wanna complain about the money side of things. If you (Publishers) care about money, fund safe bets. Sorry, but that's the way it runs. Don't fund risky projects, and then whine when you don't get your money back.

And secondly, without second hand sales, if you buy a weird or fun game and dislike it, you can't do anything. So people have even less of a reason to try a game out.

Quantic Dream's Heavy Rain lost between 5 and 10 million euro's to used sales (ref: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-12-used-market-cost-heavy-rain-1m-sales). Seriously, think about it. That's a huge loss and in the end it will only bite us gamers in the butt as the smaller devs won't be able to overcome these losses.

He said that after the game sold 2 million copies. Which turned a profit for them. And if the "loss" of 1 million sales caused him to "lose" 5-10 million euros, then he must have gained 10-20 million, correct?

Well, you're totally right when you say that the game did eventually make a profit or at least made money (I have no idea how expensive this game was to create.)

But the fact that the game did make a profit isn't really my point, my point is the fact that they could've had 1 million extra sales, but lost those to the used market. It was simply an example of how the used market is costing devs a lot of money. Sure, there are still plenty of people (2 million in this case) who did buy the game new, but it must be frustrating to see so many people playing your game, whilst knowing that only two thirds of them paid you for it.... As Foundamiere puts it:

"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between ?5 and ?10 million worth of royalties because of second-hand gaming."

Annnnnnd that's how the First Sale Doctrine works. Look it up. No other form of media needs money when it comes to second hand sales in order to survive. In fact, how has gaming got this far, considering we've had second hand sales from the word-go, if they are such a problem?

Also, take that guy's "estimates" with a grain of salt. He never actually said how he arrived at those numbers. That could just be BS.

I think he got it from the department of "Shit I just made up"

 

[MorphingDragon]

Wahtever.

Annnnnnd that's how the First Sale Doctrine works. Look it up. No other form of media needs money when it comes to second hand sales in order to survive. In fact, how has gaming got this far, considering we've had second hand sales from the word-go, if they are such a problem?

Well, it may just be me but I have a feeling the second hand game sales has definitely grown in the past couple of years. I don't know what it's like in the US, but where I live (Europe) the used sales market has grown substantially in the past 5 years. I honestly can't remember there being a substantial used sales market more than 5 years ago. Especially not as big as it has now become.

Either way, I stick to my point that if I have to choose who to give my money to, I'd rather choose the developer than some gamestore.

Well maybe used game sales would decrease if the fuckers stopped hiking up the price of new games. I refuse to pay $120+ for a video game. They were only $80-$100 a couple of years ago.

 

[Irridium]

Quantic Dream's Heavy Rain lost between 5 and 10 million euro's to used sales (ref: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-12-used-market-cost-heavy-rain-1m-sales). Seriously, think about it. That's a huge loss and in the end it will only bite us gamers in the butt as the smaller devs won't be able to overcome these losses.

He said that after the game sold 2 million copies. Which turned a profit for them. And if the "loss" of 1 million sales caused him to "lose" 5-10 million euros, then he must have gained 10-20 million, correct?

Well, you're totally right when you say that the game did eventually make a profit or at least made money (I have no idea how expensive this game was to create.)

But the fact that the game did make a profit isn't really my point, my point is the fact that they could've had 1 million extra sales, but lost those to the used market. It was simply an example of how the used market is costing devs a lot of money. Sure, there are still plenty of people (2 million in this case) who did buy the game new, but it must be frustrating to see so many people playing your game, whilst knowing that only two thirds of them paid you for it.... As Foundamiere puts it:

"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between ?5 and ?10 million worth of royalties because of second-hand gaming."

Annnnnnd that's how the First Sale Doctrine works. Look it up. No other form of media needs money when it comes to second hand sales in order to survive. In fact, how has gaming got this far, considering we've had second hand sales from the word-go, if they are such a problem?

companies that have the money to make AAA's titles don't have a problem, but the thing is people will not buy weird, quirky innovative games. people usually think like this: "i'm going to buy battlefield 3 and fifa 12 for christmas! oh that Catherine game looks fun and weird! maybe i'll buy used for 10 bucks".

That's because the publishers decide to sell those weird, quirky games for $60, release them at the same time as Battlefield, Modern Warfare, Halo, ect., and put little-to-no marketing behind the titles. Is it really that surprising that people buy a product they know nothing of used?

Basically, they don't sell well because of the Publisher's own business strategy.

Reduce the price to, say, $40. Put some marketing behind it, and release it in a non-crowded area so it can shine.

Sony and Activision did this with Infamous and Prototype(minus the $60 part), and those did very well. And Deadly Premonition is now a franchise, and I'd be willing to put money on the fact that it's because the game was $20. And it doesn't get much quirkier than that game.

Contrast that to Shadows of the Damned, which completely tanked. Which isn't surprising since it was $60.

If people aren't willing to or can't pay the price your asking, you lower the damn price so they will and/or can buy it.

Also, Catherine actually sold very well.

 

[Elsarild]

Well, as a rule of thumb, I always check 2-3 places on the internet before I go to look in gamestop, and if a used copy is cheaper there than a brand new game, I'm going for the cheapest.

 

[Maxtro]

Kids nowadays don't like to keep their games and build a collection, they game, sell and trade games on a regular basis. Shops like gamestop are taking advantage of this circular cycle to rip off the costumer. Charging 50$ multiple times on a single copy.

Is it really worth buying a used copy of la noire, deus ex or resistance 3 for 53$? Remember that not a single penny goes to the developers and you're only making gamestop richer.

I don't think there is any point in buying a used game for $7 cheaper than buying a new copy. Just buy new. And I don't buy used games from stores either.

I buy all my used games on eBay and only if I can find them for at least $20 cheaper than new.

 

[Haz88]

But if you didn't like the game, shouldn't you be able to sell it to somebody else? Car dealers are allowed to buy a used from anybody and then sell it on at a higher price than they themselves paid. The price to me is rarely a deal breaker, but you have to admit that Heavy Rain was a gamble. If you bought it for 5$ less than a new copy, and you hated it only to trade it in afterwards, then you, as a consumer, has had a smaller net loss than if you'd wasted 60$ on something that you hated.

Why is it a problem with games, when it isn't with cars or books or furniture. I didn't steal anything from anybody when I bought P.N. 03 from Gamestop, the same way as I didn't steal my car from Ford Motor Company when i handed a butt load off money over to the car dealer.
Developers, stop whining. I know the economy is tough, but if you want me to keep the game and not sell it, then give me a reason to keep it on my shelf. The Saboteur was fun for an hour, and nothing more. Give me just one good reason for me not to throw it away. My appartment is small and the shelves short, and the box is taking up space.

 

[Strazdas]

Kids nowadays don't like to keep their games and build a collection, they game, sell and trade games on a regular basis. Shops like gamestop are taking advantage of this circular cycle to rip off the costumer. Charging 50$ multiple times on a single copy.

Is it really worth buying a used copy of la noire, deus ex or resistance 3 for 53$? Remember that not a single penny goes to the developers and you're only making gamestop richer.

You guys have several options that are better, imo, like Amazon or other on-line shops. For example European consumers can go to Amazon.co.uk a buy deus ex for 15,99 pounds, that's 25 dollars!
The limited edition of dark souls costs 43?, any physical shop near me wont sell it for less than 60/70?(new or used).

And I'm sure that, regardless of what country you live in, you can find better and more economic solutions on-line.

I think that used games can be a good thing, for example I just bought msg2 and msg3 for 15?, but when it comes to recent ip's I think you should search for options that not only benefit your wallet but also contribute to the industry.

i dont see conenction between gamestop and buying used copies. all used copies i bought were hand-to-hand with no people inbetween. maybe developers need to make thier games "suck less"so we wouldnt be bored of them in a week and wouldnt want to sell out?
btw, you start off by saying its stupid, then you say you do it, thus, your stupid?

 

[Pipotchi]

I'm not a young gamer and I trade my games in when I'm done. Looking at my PS3 trophies list I've had 40 ish games over the lifespan of my PS3. i'm not keeping that many games piled up that I wont play, also some games were rubbish ie FF13 I'm not keeping that forever. I currently have 4 games SOTC/Ico, RDR, the new batman and Dark Souls, everythign else traded in or sold.