Calm Down About "Duke Nukem Forever"

[Vibhor]

You know what I'm so sick of all this f***ing whining and bitching about Duke Nukem Forever sucking. Lets get one thing straight we all knew for those of us who waited that it was going to probably suck anyway. There is no way in hell Duke could live up to a fifteen year expectation there just isn't. And for that matter i don't care if it turned out to be a cooking game instead what we expected I'm just going to be glad that i own a piece of gaming history and when the chips are down and all is said and done after the full release I'm going to always bet on Duke because I'm a fan. When a band i like puts out a crappy CD after years of waiting for it I don't go all sullen and say they suck i just look back on their old stuff and know if they want our respect back then they will try harder the next go around. And with that I'm done I've said my peace and my two cents worth.

Oh yeah and on June 14th I'm going to Hail to the King Baby

Wow, you missed the whole thread didn't you?
Nobody is whining because the game didn't live up to 14 years of development. All of them are whining because of the two weapon limit and the cover based gunplay. It just feels like Call of duty with an asshole as the main player.

 

[kayisking]

We know this because Gearbox said it themselves. 3d realms version didn't have a weapon limit, it didn't have regenrative health, and it didn't have puzzles. Gearbox said something about bringing Duke up to modern standard. IT'S THEIR FAULT!!!

I saw someone link this video once to show that DNF had the ability to carry many weapons at least until 2008. You can see them changing weapons at the 4:26 mark. The other developer (forgot their name) could have still changed it between then and them going belly (which I believe happened one year later), though.

Nah, I remember Gearbox announcing it themselves. It's a stupid decission, having 50 different weapons was Duke's thing. Things like the shrink-ray used to be stuff you could just play around with. Sure, they weren't the most effective weapon but they were fun. But since you now can only carry two weapons, you're stuck with a assault rifle - sniper rifle combo for 90% of the game. It makes many of the special weapons useless since if you try to swap it for say, the sniper rifle, you'll always run into a sniper 30 seconds later that you can't hit.

 

[PureChaos]

the only thing i'm looking forward to about the release of this game is Yahtzee's review of it

THIS!!! THIS A MILLION TIMES!!!

lol that comment was so perfect you earnt yourself a friend request ;-)

friend request accepted, always nice to meet new people, especially when it's a fellow Brit, don't see many of those round here

 

[Forgetitnow344]

A two-weapon limit causes you to be more resourceful and thoughtful in your gameplay decisions.

Who says there isn't an element of long-term strategy in a multi-weapon scenario?
Hell, I recall saving up rounds for the rocket launcher back in Doom for really nasty fights, or saving my pipebombs in Duke 3D to open potential secret walls up. Sometimes, I had to improvise even when I *did* have all the weapons, simply due to different weapons being more effective on different enemies, or in different environments.

Recognizing how and when the situation has changed is no less relevant than when you have 2 weapons as when you have 10 (assuming the game isn't horribly skewed for difficulty).

See, there isn't a strictly-superior version for gameplay mechanics; just what is appropriate for your game at that given time. Trends change, but that doesn't mean you won't come back to an older gameplay mechanic just for the sake of nostalgia.

Left 4 Dead was one of the only solid health-bar-n-pack shooters released mainstream in the last 4 years. Was it for nostalgia? Of course not! Would it have been better with regenerating health? Definitely not!

People seem to get stuck in thinking that Old Gameplay Mechanic = Inferior just because it is bad. Graphics scale with time. Audio scales with time. But whats big in mechanical design comes and goes; it doesn't ever become "better" or "worse" except when it is applied in a new way (which may or may not suck. Compare the games Geist and Mindjack to see this in action.)

I wasn't so much as stating the pocket arsenal as inferior as I was defending the two weapon option. What I meant was that your decision making had to take into account that you had to choose two guns to cover your ass and you had no idea if they would even be useful against the upcoming enemies.

I'm really just against all of the purist losers who want the same game from over a decade ago, and any changes are an intended offense against the fanbase.

 

[Evaheist666]

I don't know WHAT exactly people were expecting this game to be (I'm sorry but if you thought it would be a revolution then you're a moron) but as far as I've seen this is the Duke Nukem sequel I've been waiting for. I'm just pissed they released it so late.
Can't wait for the next one.

 

[Zhukov]

I for one am being perfectly calm.

I'm just calmly saying that the game is complete crap.

 

[Bagk Nakh]

It was gearbox's choice to implement a two weapon limit.
It was gearbox's choice to switch to regenerative health.
It was gearbox's choice to add in puzzle elements.
It is gearbox's fault the game sucks.

I disagree, it's more like...

It was 3D realms' choice to switch to regenerative health.
It was 3D realms' choice to add in puzzle elements.
It is 3D realms' fault the game sucks.
It was Gearbox's choice to change none of this, you don't complain about the soup made being shit when it's your fault that you took somebody else's recipe, saw that it was crap, and decided to go with that instead of starting from scratch.

Then it's Gearbox's fault for just adding spices to try and mask the shit taste, rather than taking a little extra time and at least add some potatoes...

 

[Reaper195]

Ok, let me make this clear. I have not played it yet. Actually, I can't honestly say I plan to play it.

But these are the facts: Gearbox attained the project after 3d Realms worked on it for almost a decade. Frankly, I wouldn't be suprised if all Gearbox was able to do were a few touches and basically finishing levels and such. Basically, most of the bad design decisions were 3D Realms. We knew this was coming. It's pretty much your fault for holding out hope. Just Saiyan.

Kaaaaaah.....maaaaaaayyy......
Hehehe....

I have been waiting for this game for a long time. And when I heard it had been cancelled, I wasn't surprised. I was sad, yeah. But it was not much of a shock. When Gearbox took it over and announced that they were going to release it, I was expecting it to be...well, exactly what it turned out to be. A average shooter that will really be entertaining to the hardcore Duke fans.

I won't say I was expecting it to be truely great, and while I did have a fair amount of fun playing it (I spent about an hour and a bit in the strip club. There really are quite a few things to do there. Pun intended...maybe), there were a few parts that made me think they had been added simply to make it longer than the average FPS nowadays.


I also liked the irony in which Duke makes a joke about the Halo armour being only for pussies, which has shields, and yet he also has regenerating 'Ego'. That I genuinely laughed at, wondering if the developers either did that on purpose, or missed made an additional, unintentional joke.

 

[Neonit]

it is good. its just not the second coming of jesus. and belive or not, that is what a lot of people expected from this game. played at friend house for an hour or so, nothing wrong with it.

but then again, everybody is enticed to their own opinion.


i like it. its good. its better than halo, worse than modern warfare on my list.

then again, im not so whiny as most of the people so maybe thats the secret.....

 

[TheScottishFella]

It was gearbox's choice to implement a two weapon limit.
It was gearbox's choice to switch to regenerative health.
It was gearbox's choice to add in puzzle elements.
It is gearbox's fault the game sucks.

And these have worked in other games, so why not in this one?

I'm going to chalk it up to Gearbox being terrible developers.

I am more on the line of 3D Realms.

Perhaps a cooperation of terrible work on both developers' parts.

That seems fair.

 

[Golden potatoe]

. It may not have been the game worthy of the name of DUKE NUKEM

IMO, if it's not worthy of the name it should have stayed in storage till it could be released in a form that IS worthy of it.

See releasing a bad game, THAT kills the franchise worse than a game (with great potential) staying in perpetual development hell.

How could you expect it to be good after all of the sh** its been true anyway?

Same way Team Fortress 2 turned out great after literally 11 years of development hell.

Basically take all your best ideas, reconsider what you are trying to do, then tear everything up and start again. That's what the TF team did when over at Valve.

For a lofty comparison, Sir Isaac Newton as he was trying to develop his theory of gravitation he had a house fire and lost ALL his scientific notes, ideas and results. Years of work, gone, all that was left was what was in his head.

Indeed, you raise a good structured argument and I applaud you for that. It's so refreshing to spar with someone who seems to be educated unlike most of the people on COD forums, the horror and stupidity, but mostly the horror. So, I thank you for raising such good points! It has given me a lot to think about. Thanks again!

But he built from that, just from what he understood in his memory, re-did the experiments, and focused in on the essential truth of that would form the a theory of physics that would unmodified by used by the the Apollo Missions used put man on the moon 300 years later.
And he could have given up after his fire or just published his vague conclusions. But he didn't and his theory changed the planet.

Great things can come from a long drawn out mess, if you can pull yourself free from all the chaff. It may take a disaster, but I think it would be good to compare Team Fortress 2 and Duke Nukem Forever as the Right and Wrong way to approach a game stuck in development hell.

 

[GiantRedButton]

I finished it yesterday, and I like it. It's fun, it's funny, and it feels neither new nor old. It's a bizarre experience stuck somewhere in time and it feels different because of it.
Oh, and it DID have puzzles when it was under 3D Realms. This video leaked just after the official cancellation of the game, just about when Gearbox first got involved to take over.
[link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOTwfNTBiW0[/link]

<eah its weird and different and i like it for that.

 

[Lesd3vil]

See, the problem here is that I'm seeing a lot of people saying 'It was crap, it was a bad game etc'... And the fact is, it wasn't a BAD game so much as it was just... Well, average. It was a pretty standard FPS with pretty standard gameplay, a few standout moments (especially when the shrinking mechanic came in to it) and a ton of sexist, puerile jokes on top... Fact is, the game works, it looks ok, and it's enjoyable enough in it's own way, but it's not gonna be something you play repeatedly because it's so good, it's just something you kill a few hours with :/

for any of you who've actually played the game, look in the trailers in the extras menu. Argument stopping proof right there, that the game was essentially finished before Gearbox got hold of it... Remember, Gearbox didn't really have anything to do with it, they just bought the rights and published the game, it was Tryptich (which was made up of - guess who? - 3D realms programmers) that did all the work that was left... The developers that released it are pretty much the same guys who were working on the damn thing for 12 years!

I mentioned it before and I did love the shrinking mechanic... Boss fights against normal enemies, or stepping on shrunk enemies, was very cool. There just wasn't enough of that over-the-top, ridiculous originality. Look at Half-Life: Opposing Force... there was a slew of different aliens and weapons in it, and that made it really fun to play, THAT'S what should have been focused on, not Duke as a character... Because he's really not

 

[Stabby Joe]

Are Gearbox terrible developers like some say? No. I find it both strange and funny that many are outright saying this as if all their previous games don't come into the equation.

Sure we can blame them for some design choices, not changing the original build or not even starting over from scratch, but I'm not going to write Gearbox off period.

As for DNF... I found it "OK".

 

[StormShaun]

Hey could anyone help me, should I return this game back or should I complete it first then return it or just keep on owing it, hmm I dunno, but the money would be good?

Someone please comment, I want to complete it, but I want to get money for my next game.

 

[JoshFTL]

I honestly don't know what people are complaining about with DNF. All the complaints that have been made, did not bother me in the slightest when I played the game. I think people are getting a bit too picky.

 

[9Darksoul6]

"use the ripper for almost everything."
You don't get it, it's about more than just using the same weapon for everything. What about variety and flexibility? You know, so that every fight isn't exactly the same?

a) "Almost everything" =/= "everything".
b) It's a manner of speaking, it doesn't mean I mainly use the weapon, and - think a little - even if I wanted to play the game like that I wouldn't be able to, would I?
c) It seems the game doesn't have weapon-balance that works for all players, so even if I wanted to play like that, and could play like that, it would still make sense to me.

--------------------------------------------------

I don't get why people are so attached to this status-quo of the 2-weapon-limit. Maybe people are too afraid of change.
It does NOT make you think.

Because it DOES, that's why; it's not Layton-thinking, but it clearly involves more brains than simply switching to 'weapon 7'. Maybe you're simply unadapated to this mechanic and can't work properly with it.

Want proof? :

You have no way of knowing what is around the next corner, so you cannot strategies, only compromise.

What about, IDK... picking weapons in mid-combat?

 

[Treblaine]

Because it DOES, that's why; it's not Layton-thinking, but it clearly involves more brains than simply switching to 'weapon 7'. Maybe you're simply unadapated to this mechanic and can't work properly with it.

Want proof? :

You have no way of knowing what is around the next corner, so you cannot strategies, only compromise.

What about, IDK... picking weapons in mid-combat?

That is what I HATE, scrabbling abound on the floor looking for a gun and trying to do that while trying to avoid getting shot and of course you have to select the LEAST optimal weapon to replace it!

So if you are under long range fire and you want to swap a shotgun for a rifle, you need to draw your shotgun and run around looking at the ground. You can't do that in mid-combat of a game with really challenging enemies. If AI is incompetent enough to watch you running around looking for a gun without killing you, the same enemies are incompetent enough for you to kill them with any unsuited gun. Or if you can it is a right pain in the arse and NOT FUN!

Not enjoyable, not engaging, not satisfying. It is a BAD game mechanic that you cannot appreciate, only tolerate out of familiarity.

But you know what you CAN do in combat? Press a direction on the D-pad to select the RIGHT gun for the job.

I have played literally HUNDREDS of hours of shooters with 2-weapon limit, but more than that I have also played hundreds of hours of shooter games with a high weapon limit. I know where it works and where it does not work. How many hours of gameplay do you have games with a large weapon inventory? Shooters, not RPGs.

You could only say that it works for Duke Nukem Forever, if you had very little experience of games with a large multi-weapon limit!

One game where it is least suited is Halo as the weapons are not balanced at all, you have guns hugely varying in capability and situational effectiveness while there is no reason your 7-foot-tall genetically-strengthened power-armour-wearing Spartan Super-warrior can't carry more than two guns. 4 at least.

There are games where a 2 weapon limit is suitable, mostly team-based multiplayer games with highly streamlines weapons and classes.