Can "e-sports" be considered true sports?

[Dimitriov]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

 

[Axelhander]

Nah. If you have a dictionary that throws out the athleticism requirement, that's a dictionary that doesn't get it.

BREAKING NEWS: arbitrary requirements formulated in your head matter. In similar news, moving goalpost arguments are also valid. More to come.

I understand that a lot of gamers feel a need to be validated by the mainstream, but calling games sports -- or even "e-sports (which is itself kind of silly; sure, it's competitive. So is monopoly, but you don't see people calling that a "board-sport.") -- is just not going to do it.

THIS JUST IN: arguments that appeal to emotion are completely valid 100% of the time. For instance, appealing to the supposed absurdity of calling Monopoly a sport (which Monopoly totally is) will make your point valid.

JUST HANDED TO ME: gamers who correctly point out that competitive games are, in fact, sport, are only doing it to have it validated by the mainstream. This is the only reason anyone does anything, ever.

As the Jim Sterling article posted above pointed out, the zeal with which gamers try to defend games as sports (and games as art) shows just why they are neither. If they were, gamers wouldn't need to defend them, because they wouldn't feel insecure about it.

SHOCKING NEW DEVELOPMENT: Jim Sterling is an accredited source, especially when he makes claims that contradict facts, such as the fact that competitive games are sports. Also, in my opinion, a cat is a reptile and not a mammal. Also, when someone gets defensive over something, it automatically invalidates their argument.

 

[gigastrike]

Sports are organised, competative games...so yeah.

 

[Staskala]

Why are gamers always so eager to grind definitions?
Same thing as the "games are art" thing, who cares about that? What do you people even want to accomplish?
The IOC sure as hell doesn't care about this argument, the general public won't even hear about this and last time I checked there wasn't some mysterious global organization that dictates what is art and what isn't. You can convince as many art historians as you want and yet there will always be an equal number number who disagree. Why are you people so eager to emulate Sisyphus? What's the point?
If the IOC established e-sports as sport tomorrow what would change? Why would the general public suddenly treat gamers any different?

Anyway, technically a sport requires physical athleticism, but the IOC also gave in to pressure regarding chess and then there's always motion control. So, where do video games fit in? I don't know because I couldn't care less about arbitrary semantics.

I play video games and whether someone calls them art, sports, toys or murder training makes absolutely no difference to me.

 

[Realitycrash]

"Sport" is just another name for competition. And for you that claim "Actually the DICTIONARY says.." I'm going to reply: Doesn't matter. Football is an athletic competition, gaming is a non-athletic competition, you really going to nitpick because some competitions get more exercise?

Yes, because sports are athletic competitions, not competitions in general. To put it simply, all sports are games, but not all games are sports.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Chess is a "mind-sport," a term almost as meaningless as e-sport. The only reason we are even having this debate is that there are a lot of insecure people in this world who think that having a game they enjoy classed as a "sport" will somehow make it more widely accepted. The rest of us just laugh at them and enjoy whatever it is we enjoy.

Never heard anyone use the term "mind-sport", but it's equally meaningless or meaningfull as e-sport and sport. Language is here for us to communicate. If calling your competitive hobby a sport helps you communicate that, because it's easier than saying "Oh I'm a competitive-game player". "E-sports" is a perfect solution for it.
Is it more socially acceptable, because perhaps gamers are still looked down upon? Maybe. But I know that people who play chess aren't looked down upon when they play at such a level, and certainly won't need that excuse (okey, they might be in high-school, but let's be grown-ups here and ignore the cesspool of insecurity that is high-school and earlier).
And I'm having this discussion not because I honestly fucking care if it's considered a "true sport" or not, but because;
A - I study language and literature.
B - Hiding behind a dictionary isn't helping us forward communication. It's hampering it.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Nah. If you have a dictionary that throws out the athleticism requirement, that's a dictionary that doesn't get it.

BREAKING NEWS: arbitrary requirements formulated in your head matter. In similar news, moving goalpost arguments are also valid. More to come.

I understand that a lot of gamers feel a need to be validated by the mainstream, but calling games sports -- or even "e-sports (which is itself kind of silly; sure, it's competitive. So is monopoly, but you don't see people calling that a "board-sport.") -- is just not going to do it.

THIS JUST IN: arguments that appeal to emotion are completely valid 100% of the time. For instance, appealing to the supposed absurdity of calling Monopoly a sport (which Monopoly totally is) will make your point valid.

JUST HANDED TO ME: gamers who correctly point out that competitive games are, in fact, sport, are only doing it to have it validated by the mainstream. This is the only reason anyone does anything, ever.

As the Jim Sterling article posted above pointed out, the zeal with which gamers try to defend games as sports (and games as art) shows just why they are neither. If they were, gamers wouldn't need to defend them, because they wouldn't feel insecure about it.

SHOCKING NEW DEVELOPMENT: Jim Sterling is an accredited source, especially when he makes claims that contradict facts, such as the fact that competitive games are sports. Also, in my opinion, a cat is a reptile and not a mammal. Also, when someone gets defensive over something, it automatically invalidates their argument.

When they get defensive enough that "U mad, bro?" is an appropriate response, then yeah, I'd say it shows some serious insecurity.

 

[Realitycrash]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I don't really think e-sports are real sports. I think they should really try and figure out a new name for themselves if they want to be taken seriously. I am an avid Starcraft player myself, and despite that I would never consider that crap a sport.
I am pretty sure I am in the minority though.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

 

[Axelhander]

When they get defensive enough that "U mad, bro?" is an appropriate response, then yeah, I'd say it shows some serious insecurity.

EXTRA EXTRA: insecurity is the same thing as invalidation, and "u mad, bro?" has always been used correctly throughout history, especially on the Internet.

 

[The Bandit]

After reading this [(http://www.destructoid.com/esports-defenders-the-reason-why-esports-can-t-be-sports-208512.phtml)], I was surprised that there's such an opposition to something like Major League gaming being considered a sport.

Personally I see no reason why e-sports couldn't be considered real sports, apart from the fact that these competitions seem very limited to FPS games and Starcraft.

So tell me fellow Escapists, do you think "e-sports" are real sports, or that they aren't and/or will never be.

Sport- an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

No. No no no. Why do people get so caught up in this shit? I get art, but by definition video games are not a sport. Just like poker isn't a sport.

It's a game. That doesn't mean that it doesn't take skill or that you can't compete at it.

"Sport" is just another name for competition. And for you that claim "Actually the DICTIONARY says.." I'm going to reply: Doesn't matter. Football is an athletic competition, gaming is a non-athletic competition, you really going to nitpick because some competitions get more exercise?

Yes, because sports are athletic competitions, not competitions in general. To put it simply, all sports are games, but not all games are sports.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

The definition has not changed. You want to change it. I'm not sure why, but you do.

 

[Axelhander]

I don't really think e-sports are real sports.

I don't think you have teeth. Because this is totally subjective.

 

[Realitycrash]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I don't really think e-sports are real sports.

I don't think you have teeth. Because this is totally subjective.

I know it is. I thought that is what the topic was asking me. I personally really don't think e-sports are sports. Now when video games progress to holodeck status, then we'll talk. I just think of sports as having an athletic aspect.

 

[Realitycrash]

After reading this [(http://www.destructoid.com/esports-defenders-the-reason-why-esports-can-t-be-sports-208512.phtml)], I was surprised that there's such an opposition to something like Major League gaming being considered a sport.

Personally I see no reason why e-sports couldn't be considered real sports, apart from the fact that these competitions seem very limited to FPS games and Starcraft.

So tell me fellow Escapists, do you think "e-sports" are real sports, or that they aren't and/or will never be.

Sport- an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

No. No no no. Why do people get so caught up in this shit? I get art, but by definition video games are not a sport. Just like poker isn't a sport.

It's a game. That doesn't mean that it doesn't take skill or that you can't compete at it.

"Sport" is just another name for competition. And for you that claim "Actually the DICTIONARY says.." I'm going to reply: Doesn't matter. Football is an athletic competition, gaming is a non-athletic competition, you really going to nitpick because some competitions get more exercise?

Yes, because sports are athletic competitions, not competitions in general. To put it simply, all sports are games, but not all games are sports.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

The definition has not changed. You want to change it. I'm not sure why, but you do.

Really? For "Gay" or for "Sport"? Care to prove me wrong?

 

[Naeras]

Chess is sport. Poker is sport. Why shouldn't competitive gaming be a sport?

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

There are quite a few dictionary quotes further up if you really want one. The truth is, though, that the general population takes "sports" to include the athleticism clause. As I said, language changes, but the word "sports" has yet to change the way you're claiming. Besides, since you're the one claiming the dictionary is wrong, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

 

[DirgeNovak]

No they aren't. Sport is sport, it involves running around competing with people. Same way motorsport isn't a sport, it's motorsport.

Why take two really useful terms and combine them into one much less useful term? Why does calling games Esports make them more valid?

How about just calling it professional gaming, or even competitive gaming, or tournament gaming?

That's the voice of wisdom right there. Saying it's not a sport (you know, like poker, bowling or horseshoe aren't sports) doesn't diminish what it is. It's just stating what it isn't.

 

[Axelhander]

Sport- an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

This is not the definition of sport. Yes, I know you're going to make a lot of virtual noise claiming otherwise. No, none of it will be valid.

If you have an IQ in or approaching the double digits, read point A, below. Otherwise, skip to point B.

A) Dictionaries are not dogma. And the problem with including the word "athletic," or any derivatives of it or its root, is that "athletic" isn't as rigidly defined as you think it is. Skip to point C.

B) You're wrong. Yes, you are.

C) Hopefully you've learned something.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Sport- an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

This is not the definition of sport. Yes, I know you're going to make a lot of virtual noise claiming otherwise. No, none of it will be valid.

If you have an IQ in or approaching the double digits, read point A, below. Otherwise, skip to point B.

A) Dictionaries are not dogma. And the problem with including the word "athletic," or any derivatives of it or its root, is that "athletic" isn't as rigidly defined as you think it is. Skip to point C.

B) You're wrong. Yes, you are.

C) Hopefully you've learned something.

And I suppose evolution is just a theory?