Can "e-sports" be considered true sports?

[Realitycrash]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

There are quite a few dictionary quotes further up if you really want one. The truth is, though, that the general population takes "sports" to include the athleticism clause. As I said, language changes, but the word "sports" has yet to change the way you're claiming. Besides, since you're the one claiming the dictionary is wrong, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

If we had a world-wide poll, I'm pretty sure it would be in a majority favor of "E-sports are not true sports", indeed. Why would they say that? In the end, they would most likely say either "Uh..I just don't think it is. Sports mean like hockey and stuff" or "Because the dictionary" say so.
Well, a dictionary get changed all the time (every year) in fact. So what it says today, doesn't mean it will say tomorrow.
I'm not saying it's "wrong", I'm saying that when you disregard what it says, since it is only there to document current language, not dictate, then nothing except public opinion dictates that a certain word mean a certain thing (or several things) during a certain time (see the "Gay" reference for this).
So it all comes down to "have the public opinion changes enough?". Well, no, I'd agree with you there. It most likely has not. So in most minds, it's not a true sport, because gaming and such haven't been common enough for it to be considered one. Not yet.
Chess would probably have a far better favor in the "world-wide poll", though. It's been around longer.

 

[sageoftruth]

I think before I can get anywhere in this discussion, I'll need a list of everything that's already considered a sport.

 

[Realitycrash]

Sport- an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

This is not the definition of sport. Yes, I know you're going to make a lot of virtual noise claiming otherwise. No, none of it will be valid.

If you have an IQ in or approaching the double digits, read point A, below. Otherwise, skip to point B.

A) Dictionaries are not dogma. And the problem with including the word "athletic," or any derivatives of it or its root, is that "athletic" isn't as rigidly defined as you think it is. Skip to point C.

B) You're wrong. Yes, you are.

C) Hopefully you've learned something.

I agree with you, but being rude doesn't really help your point. Cut the Ad Hominem.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

There are quite a few dictionary quotes further up if you really want one. The truth is, though, that the general population takes "sports" to include the athleticism clause. As I said, language changes, but the word "sports" has yet to change the way you're claiming. Besides, since you're the one claiming the dictionary is wrong, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

If we had a world-wide poll, I'm pretty sure it would be in a majority favor of "E-sports are not true sports", indeed. Why would they say that? In the end, they would most likely say either "Uh..I just don't think it is. Sports mean like hockey and stuff" or "Because the dictionary" say so.
Well, a dictionary get changed all the time (every year) in fact. So what it says today, doesn't mean it will say tomorrow.
I'm not saying it's "wrong", I'm saying that when you disregard what it says, since it is only there to document current language, not dictate, then nothing except public opinion dictates that a certain word mean a certain thing (or several things) during a certain time (see the "Gay" reference for this).
So it all comes down to "have the public opinion changes enough?". Well, no, I'd agree with you there. It most likely has not. So in most minds, it's not a true sport, because gaming and such haven't been common enough for it to be considered one. Not yet.
Chess would probably have a far better favor in the "world-wide poll", though. It's been around longer.

Even chess would have a low percentage claiming it to be a sport. The only reason it's recognized as a sport in certain countries is that the major chess league (not sure what it's called) lobbied to be called a sport, because it entails certain tax benefits. Kind of like how Arabs are white according to the U.S. Census. (They really are; look it up.)

Edit: And what you are describing is exactly why e-sports and sports are two different words. If I randomly say the word "apple" actually means "orange," that doesn't make it so. For the meaning of a word to change, the vast majority of people have to understand that it carries the new definition. A small percentage with an axe to grind does not a vast majority make -- or do you want to argue with every single word in this post? Because I find it odd that someone who is pushing so hard for definitions that fluid can even understand the words I'm writing. Why are their definitions so stable?

 

[Soods]

Short answer: N
Long answer: No
Good answer: E-Sports can NOT be considered true sports, because they do not take place in physical world (see: digital world) or require physical prowess.

Frequently presented counter arguments:

CA: The competitors are in physical world.
CCA: The competition, (the one that people watch) happens in digital world.

CA: Smashing keyboard is hard work and requires extensive training.
CCA: Everything can be improved through extensive training but, for example, cooking is not considered sports.

CA: You are stupid
CCA:

Spoiler

 

[Realitycrash]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

There are quite a few dictionary quotes further up if you really want one. The truth is, though, that the general population takes "sports" to include the athleticism clause. As I said, language changes, but the word "sports" has yet to change the way you're claiming. Besides, since you're the one claiming the dictionary is wrong, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

If we had a world-wide poll, I'm pretty sure it would be in a majority favor of "E-sports are not true sports", indeed. Why would they say that? In the end, they would most likely say either "Uh..I just don't think it is. Sports mean like hockey and stuff" or "Because the dictionary" say so.
Well, a dictionary get changed all the time (every year) in fact. So what it says today, doesn't mean it will say tomorrow.
I'm not saying it's "wrong", I'm saying that when you disregard what it says, since it is only there to document current language, not dictate, then nothing except public opinion dictates that a certain word mean a certain thing (or several things) during a certain time (see the "Gay" reference for this).
So it all comes down to "have the public opinion changes enough?". Well, no, I'd agree with you there. It most likely has not. So in most minds, it's not a true sport, because gaming and such haven't been common enough for it to be considered one. Not yet.
Chess would probably have a far better favor in the "world-wide poll", though. It's been around longer.

Even chess would have a low percentage claiming it to be a sport. The only reason it's recognized as a sport in certain countries is that the major chess league (not sure what it's called) lobbied to be called a sport, because it entails certain tax benefits. Kind of like how Arabs are white according to the U.S. Census. (They really are; look it up.)

If the gaming-industri lobbied to call tournaments Sporting-events (no idea why they would care, but hey..), a similar change could occur.
But yeah, gaming is still stigmatized all over the board, and is thus rarely seen as a sport.

 

[HentMas]

No they aren't. Sport is sport, it involves running around competing with people. Same way motorsport isn't a sport, it's motorsport.

Why take two really useful terms and combine them into one much less useful term? Why does calling games Esports make them more valid?

How about just calling it professional gaming, or even competitive gaming, or tournament gaming?

you are then not aware that "Chess" is considered a Sport then... well, If Chess is, i believe Gameing should too.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

There are quite a few dictionary quotes further up if you really want one. The truth is, though, that the general population takes "sports" to include the athleticism clause. As I said, language changes, but the word "sports" has yet to change the way you're claiming. Besides, since you're the one claiming the dictionary is wrong, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

If we had a world-wide poll, I'm pretty sure it would be in a majority favor of "E-sports are not true sports", indeed. Why would they say that? In the end, they would most likely say either "Uh..I just don't think it is. Sports mean like hockey and stuff" or "Because the dictionary" say so.
Well, a dictionary get changed all the time (every year) in fact. So what it says today, doesn't mean it will say tomorrow.
I'm not saying it's "wrong", I'm saying that when you disregard what it says, since it is only there to document current language, not dictate, then nothing except public opinion dictates that a certain word mean a certain thing (or several things) during a certain time (see the "Gay" reference for this).
So it all comes down to "have the public opinion changes enough?". Well, no, I'd agree with you there. It most likely has not. So in most minds, it's not a true sport, because gaming and such haven't been common enough for it to be considered one. Not yet.
Chess would probably have a far better favor in the "world-wide poll", though. It's been around longer.

Even chess would have a low percentage claiming it to be a sport. The only reason it's recognized as a sport in certain countries is that the major chess league (not sure what it's called) lobbied to be called a sport, because it entails certain tax benefits. Kind of like how Arabs are white according to the U.S. Census. (They really are; look it up.)

If the gaming-industri lobbied to call tournaments Sporting-events (no idea why they would care, but hey..), a similar change could occur.
But yeah, gaming is still stigmatized all over the board, and is thus rarely seen as a sport.

See my edit. Calling something a "game" instead of a "sport" is not a sign of stigma, it's just a sign that the two words have two different definitions. As for Chess being legally recognized as a sport, it's only really on paper. Even in the countries where it's recognized, people don't call it a sport in every day conversation, because it's not a sport, it's just got some of the same legal protections. Also, corporations aren't really people, even though they legally are for tax purposes.

 

[Realitycrash]

Short answer: N
Long answer: No
Good answer: E-Sports can NOT be considered true sports, because they do not take place in physical world (see: digital world) or require physical prowess.

Frequently presented counter arguments:

CA: The competitors are in physical world.
CCA: The competition, (the one that people watch) happens in digital world.

CA: Smashing keyboard is hard work and requires extensive training.
CCA: Everything can be improved through extensive training but, for example, cooking is not considered sports.

CA: You are stupid
CCA:

Spoiler

Short answer: You are right, but also wrong, and too sure of yourself.
Long answer: Read the topic, especially the answers relating to "What does Sport really mean?" and "So what if a Dictionary say it?" before you say something like this.

 

[Realitycrash]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

There are quite a few dictionary quotes further up if you really want one. The truth is, though, that the general population takes "sports" to include the athleticism clause. As I said, language changes, but the word "sports" has yet to change the way you're claiming. Besides, since you're the one claiming the dictionary is wrong, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

If we had a world-wide poll, I'm pretty sure it would be in a majority favor of "E-sports are not true sports", indeed. Why would they say that? In the end, they would most likely say either "Uh..I just don't think it is. Sports mean like hockey and stuff" or "Because the dictionary" say so.
Well, a dictionary get changed all the time (every year) in fact. So what it says today, doesn't mean it will say tomorrow.
I'm not saying it's "wrong", I'm saying that when you disregard what it says, since it is only there to document current language, not dictate, then nothing except public opinion dictates that a certain word mean a certain thing (or several things) during a certain time (see the "Gay" reference for this).
So it all comes down to "have the public opinion changes enough?". Well, no, I'd agree with you there. It most likely has not. So in most minds, it's not a true sport, because gaming and such haven't been common enough for it to be considered one. Not yet.
Chess would probably have a far better favor in the "world-wide poll", though. It's been around longer.

Even chess would have a low percentage claiming it to be a sport. The only reason it's recognized as a sport in certain countries is that the major chess league (not sure what it's called) lobbied to be called a sport, because it entails certain tax benefits. Kind of like how Arabs are white according to the U.S. Census. (They really are; look it up.)

Edit: And what you are describing is exactly why e-sports and sports are two different words. If I randomly say the word "apple" actually means "orange," that doesn't make it so. For the meaning of a word to change, the vast majority of people have to understand that it carries the new definition. A small percentage with an axe to grind does not a vast majority make -- or do you want to argue with every single word in this post? Because I find it odd that someone who is pushing so hard for definitions that fluid can even understand the words I'm writing. Why are their definitions so stable?

I haven't ever heard "E-sports" as a word, you know. But fine, I'd happily agree that E-Sport is a different word from Sports. But that's not the issue here, you know. The issue is that "E-sport" isn't a "Real" Sport. That a "real" sport is something rigidly defined. Well, it isn't, because the definitions change all the time. For now, E-sport covers gaming/etc nicely, though. It's just a non-physical sport then, is it not?
"But a non-physical sport isn't a sport, because a sport is defined by the general population". True, a SPORT is defined by the general population. But this is a non-physical one. Heck, picking up girls are often refered to as "sport" by some gentlemen.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

How are Games like Call of Duty or Halo NOT sports? You're stuck in a tiny fixed area doing the EXACT smae thing over and over and over and over again, just for fun/to be better at it than the other guys. That's like the fucking definition of a Sport.

 

[Black Watch]

Sports are typically fun to watch. Games aren't. Sure, clips of someone doing something epic is pretty cool, but I don't want to watch 12 guys camp in Call of Duty for half an hour until someone gets bored and tries to run and gun.

Oh, and moving your fingers doesn't really count as a physical activity because in the end, you are still sitting on your ass.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

There are quite a few dictionary quotes further up if you really want one. The truth is, though, that the general population takes "sports" to include the athleticism clause. As I said, language changes, but the word "sports" has yet to change the way you're claiming. Besides, since you're the one claiming the dictionary is wrong, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

If we had a world-wide poll, I'm pretty sure it would be in a majority favor of "E-sports are not true sports", indeed. Why would they say that? In the end, they would most likely say either "Uh..I just don't think it is. Sports mean like hockey and stuff" or "Because the dictionary" say so.
Well, a dictionary get changed all the time (every year) in fact. So what it says today, doesn't mean it will say tomorrow.
I'm not saying it's "wrong", I'm saying that when you disregard what it says, since it is only there to document current language, not dictate, then nothing except public opinion dictates that a certain word mean a certain thing (or several things) during a certain time (see the "Gay" reference for this).
So it all comes down to "have the public opinion changes enough?". Well, no, I'd agree with you there. It most likely has not. So in most minds, it's not a true sport, because gaming and such haven't been common enough for it to be considered one. Not yet.
Chess would probably have a far better favor in the "world-wide poll", though. It's been around longer.

Even chess would have a low percentage claiming it to be a sport. The only reason it's recognized as a sport in certain countries is that the major chess league (not sure what it's called) lobbied to be called a sport, because it entails certain tax benefits. Kind of like how Arabs are white according to the U.S. Census. (They really are; look it up.)

Edit: And what you are describing is exactly why e-sports and sports are two different words. If I randomly say the word "apple" actually means "orange," that doesn't make it so. For the meaning of a word to change, the vast majority of people have to understand that it carries the new definition. A small percentage with an axe to grind does not a vast majority make -- or do you want to argue with every single word in this post? Because I find it odd that someone who is pushing so hard for definitions that fluid can even understand the words I'm writing. Why are their definitions so stable?

I haven't ever heard "E-sports" as a word, you know. But fine, I'd happily agree that E-Sport is a different word from Sports. But that's not the issue here, you know. The issue is that "E-sport" isn't a "Real" Sport. That a "real" sport is something rigidly defined. Well, it isn't, because the definitions change all the time. For now, E-sport covers gaming/etc nicely, though. It's just a non-physical sport then, is it not?
"But a non-physical sport isn't a sport, because a sport is defined by the general population". True, a SPORT is defined by the general population. But this is a non-physical one. Heck, picking up girls are often refered to as "sport" by some gentlemen.

*sigh* I'm going to say this one more time: sports are, by definition, physical. There is no such thing as a non-physical sport. As I said before, e-mail isn't really mail either. e-sports is just a term (a pretty silly one, too) for competitive videogames. The term makes a comparison to sports, but it doesn't mean games actually are sports. There isn't a debate here.

 

[Sir Rammington Steel]

If something like poker can be found on espn I don't see how gaming couldn't be there as well. That being said, I would not consider it a sport myself the same way I don't consider poker and chess to be sports either. From what I've gathered glancing over things a lot of the focus seems to be around sport as defined by dictionary or individual as well as some subjectivity thrown into the mix.
For the most part I'd say that society on the whole would find it difficult to see video games played competitively as a sport. It's a rather uphill battle to get them to see otherwise. Like I said, I myself wouldn't consider it a sport. I don't care what a dictionary or people say, to me a sport requires a certain degree of physicality. Not only that, but the aspects of the competition most be based on that physicality. That's why I can still consider things like NASCAR, bowling, and golf to be sports. How well you do in the competition is based primarily on your athletic abilities to control a vehicle or a ball with great degrees of precision. The victor of a chess match or video game don't hinge on these physical factors. They are far more mental. Sure, there's that whole hand eye coordination thing in gaming, but in the end I think it comes down more to the players understanding of the game than their manual dexterity and quickness.
In summary I would say that every sport has a physical and mental aspect to the game, but for it to be considered truly a sport(in my mind at least) victory depends at least 50% on your physical abilities or something like that.

 

[Realitycrash]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

There are quite a few dictionary quotes further up if you really want one. The truth is, though, that the general population takes "sports" to include the athleticism clause. As I said, language changes, but the word "sports" has yet to change the way you're claiming. Besides, since you're the one claiming the dictionary is wrong, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

If we had a world-wide poll, I'm pretty sure it would be in a majority favor of "E-sports are not true sports", indeed. Why would they say that? In the end, they would most likely say either "Uh..I just don't think it is. Sports mean like hockey and stuff" or "Because the dictionary" say so.
Well, a dictionary get changed all the time (every year) in fact. So what it says today, doesn't mean it will say tomorrow.
I'm not saying it's "wrong", I'm saying that when you disregard what it says, since it is only there to document current language, not dictate, then nothing except public opinion dictates that a certain word mean a certain thing (or several things) during a certain time (see the "Gay" reference for this).
So it all comes down to "have the public opinion changes enough?". Well, no, I'd agree with you there. It most likely has not. So in most minds, it's not a true sport, because gaming and such haven't been common enough for it to be considered one. Not yet.
Chess would probably have a far better favor in the "world-wide poll", though. It's been around longer.

Even chess would have a low percentage claiming it to be a sport. The only reason it's recognized as a sport in certain countries is that the major chess league (not sure what it's called) lobbied to be called a sport, because it entails certain tax benefits. Kind of like how Arabs are white according to the U.S. Census. (They really are; look it up.)

Edit: And what you are describing is exactly why e-sports and sports are two different words. If I randomly say the word "apple" actually means "orange," that doesn't make it so. For the meaning of a word to change, the vast majority of people have to understand that it carries the new definition. A small percentage with an axe to grind does not a vast majority make -- or do you want to argue with every single word in this post? Because I find it odd that someone who is pushing so hard for definitions that fluid can even understand the words I'm writing. Why are their definitions so stable?

I haven't ever heard "E-sports" as a word, you know. But fine, I'd happily agree that E-Sport is a different word from Sports. But that's not the issue here, you know. The issue is that "E-sport" isn't a "Real" Sport. That a "real" sport is something rigidly defined. Well, it isn't, because the definitions change all the time. For now, E-sport covers gaming/etc nicely, though. It's just a non-physical sport then, is it not?
"But a non-physical sport isn't a sport, because a sport is defined by the general population". True, a SPORT is defined by the general population. But this is a non-physical one. Heck, picking up girls are often refered to as "sport" by some gentlemen.

*sigh* I'm going to say this one more time: sports are, by definition, physical. There is no such thing as a non-physical sport. As I said before, e-mail isn't really mail either. e-sports is just a term (a pretty silly one, too) for competitive videogames. The term makes a comparison to sports, but it doesn't mean games actually are sports. There isn't a debate here.

By current definition physical. Othervise they are identical. E-sports is a word/term for non-physical competitive gaming, just as E-mail is a word/term for a non-physical message to convey information.
Just because A (Sports/Mail) came first do not make them more "real" than B(E-Sports/E-mail).
They are different words for different yet similar things.
It's just easier to say "Sport" than saying "I play a non-physical competitive game currently not considered a Sport by the general masses and thus not reflected yet in a dictionary thus, and I don't say E-sport though it is its own word because I think it is a silly term and I like to feel that I play Sport because it's a more commonly known term that I don't have to explain with this extremely long sentence every time".

Language is about convenience afterall.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

There are quite a few dictionary quotes further up if you really want one. The truth is, though, that the general population takes "sports" to include the athleticism clause. As I said, language changes, but the word "sports" has yet to change the way you're claiming. Besides, since you're the one claiming the dictionary is wrong, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

If we had a world-wide poll, I'm pretty sure it would be in a majority favor of "E-sports are not true sports", indeed. Why would they say that? In the end, they would most likely say either "Uh..I just don't think it is. Sports mean like hockey and stuff" or "Because the dictionary" say so.
Well, a dictionary get changed all the time (every year) in fact. So what it says today, doesn't mean it will say tomorrow.
I'm not saying it's "wrong", I'm saying that when you disregard what it says, since it is only there to document current language, not dictate, then nothing except public opinion dictates that a certain word mean a certain thing (or several things) during a certain time (see the "Gay" reference for this).
So it all comes down to "have the public opinion changes enough?". Well, no, I'd agree with you there. It most likely has not. So in most minds, it's not a true sport, because gaming and such haven't been common enough for it to be considered one. Not yet.
Chess would probably have a far better favor in the "world-wide poll", though. It's been around longer.

Even chess would have a low percentage claiming it to be a sport. The only reason it's recognized as a sport in certain countries is that the major chess league (not sure what it's called) lobbied to be called a sport, because it entails certain tax benefits. Kind of like how Arabs are white according to the U.S. Census. (They really are; look it up.)

Edit: And what you are describing is exactly why e-sports and sports are two different words. If I randomly say the word "apple" actually means "orange," that doesn't make it so. For the meaning of a word to change, the vast majority of people have to understand that it carries the new definition. A small percentage with an axe to grind does not a vast majority make -- or do you want to argue with every single word in this post? Because I find it odd that someone who is pushing so hard for definitions that fluid can even understand the words I'm writing. Why are their definitions so stable?

I haven't ever heard "E-sports" as a word, you know. But fine, I'd happily agree that E-Sport is a different word from Sports. But that's not the issue here, you know. The issue is that "E-sport" isn't a "Real" Sport. That a "real" sport is something rigidly defined. Well, it isn't, because the definitions change all the time. For now, E-sport covers gaming/etc nicely, though. It's just a non-physical sport then, is it not?
"But a non-physical sport isn't a sport, because a sport is defined by the general population". True, a SPORT is defined by the general population. But this is a non-physical one. Heck, picking up girls are often refered to as "sport" by some gentlemen.

*sigh* I'm going to say this one more time: sports are, by definition, physical. There is no such thing as a non-physical sport. As I said before, e-mail isn't really mail either. e-sports is just a term (a pretty silly one, too) for competitive videogames. The term makes a comparison to sports, but it doesn't mean games actually are sports. There isn't a debate here.

By current definition physical. Othervise they are identical. E-sports is a word/term for non-physical competitive gaming, just as E-mail is a word/term for a non-physical message to convey information.
Just because A (Sports/Mail) came first do not make them more "real" than B(E-Sports/E-mail).
They are different words for different yet similar things.
It's just easier to say "Sport" than saying "I play a non-physical competitive game currently not considered a Sport by the general masses and thus not reflected yet in a dictionary thus, and I don't say E-sport though it is its own word because I think it is a silly term and I like to feel that I play Sport because it's a more commonly known term that I don't have to explain with this extremely long sentence every time".

Language is about convenience afterall.

And you know what's more convenient than saying "I play a sport" and nobody but you knowing whether it's a sport, an e-sport, a card game, a board game, or a presidential election (what, they're competitive)? Using the separate words I just pointed out. "Competition" and "game" are the two overarching terms that contain everything I just listed, and there's no need to expand "sports" to be a catchall term for everything that fits into these categories -- much like "plants" describes fruits, vegetables, flowers, and trees, but nobody would claim all that all of these terms need to be consolidated under the term "vegetables." Not only does "plants" already cover it, but you lose the ability to be specific, which is a bad thing.


Edit: Besides, I'm not the one making value judgements on the term "sport" vs. the term "e-sport," nor on "mail" vs. "e-mail." They're all no more or less "real" than the other, but an e-sport is not a real sport in the sense that it's not an "actual" sport -- in other words, the two terms are not synonyms. For someone who talks so much about words having multiple fluid meanings, you sure are taking the wrong meaning of "real."

 

[The Heik]

After reading this [(http://www.destructoid.com/esports-defenders-the-reason-why-esports-can-t-be-sports-208512.phtml)], I was surprised that there's such an opposition to something like Major League gaming being considered a sport.

Personally I see no reason why e-sports couldn't be considered real sports, apart from the fact that these competitions seem very limited to FPS games and Starcraft.

So tell me fellow Escapists, do you think "e-sports" are real sports, or that they aren't and/or will never be.

Of course they're a sport. Sports are defined by two opposing forces duking it out based upon a specific set of rules. MLG is exactly that, only in a electronic environment rather than a physical one, which isn't much a difference at all.

 

[Realitycrash]

No. Huh that's kind of short... HELL NO.

sport   [spawrt, spohrt] noun

1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Not true. The word "sport" has become so jumbled that it no longer simply means "athletic competition". It means so many more things now, and is applicable to other things. Chess is probably the prime example. Chess is a sport, and no matter how much you complain that "according to the dictionary, this isn't a sport!", noone is going to care or change how they view sport or what word they use to reference it.
Because you know what? Words change. All the time. They mutate. Dictionaries are there to serve language, not the other way around. They simply reflect how the language is TODAY, and soon, it won't say "athletic competition" any more.
I can give you several examples of this, but easiest is the word "Gay". Look up how it is described now, and how it was described a hundred years ago.

Wrong. Language does not change to how you personally use it, but how everyone uses it. This thread clearly shows that many users of the English language disagree with you.

Yes, you are right, many of them disagree with me, but most likely not enough. Since people still understand the term "e-sport", and similar, and it is a growing phenomenon, it won't be long before a dictionary near you changes the definition of sport, or at least include a footnote. And then they can't hide behind that excuse any longer. Then they have to say "I don't think it's a true sport, because I'm more used with the word "sport" meaning something else, because it is in that context I have heard it most, and thus associate it with"

We aren't hiding behind a dictionary; you're hiding behind wishful thinking. E-sports do not equal sports, in the same way that e-mail isn't carried by the US postal service, and can't deliver packages. You're really being silly here.

And how does it not qualify as a sport, I ask you, if you can't quote a dictionary. Give me another argument, please.

There are quite a few dictionary quotes further up if you really want one. The truth is, though, that the general population takes "sports" to include the athleticism clause. As I said, language changes, but the word "sports" has yet to change the way you're claiming. Besides, since you're the one claiming the dictionary is wrong, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

If we had a world-wide poll, I'm pretty sure it would be in a majority favor of "E-sports are not true sports", indeed. Why would they say that? In the end, they would most likely say either "Uh..I just don't think it is. Sports mean like hockey and stuff" or "Because the dictionary" say so.
Well, a dictionary get changed all the time (every year) in fact. So what it says today, doesn't mean it will say tomorrow.
I'm not saying it's "wrong", I'm saying that when you disregard what it says, since it is only there to document current language, not dictate, then nothing except public opinion dictates that a certain word mean a certain thing (or several things) during a certain time (see the "Gay" reference for this).
So it all comes down to "have the public opinion changes enough?". Well, no, I'd agree with you there. It most likely has not. So in most minds, it's not a true sport, because gaming and such haven't been common enough for it to be considered one. Not yet.
Chess would probably have a far better favor in the "world-wide poll", though. It's been around longer.

Even chess would have a low percentage claiming it to be a sport. The only reason it's recognized as a sport in certain countries is that the major chess league (not sure what it's called) lobbied to be called a sport, because it entails certain tax benefits. Kind of like how Arabs are white according to the U.S. Census. (They really are; look it up.)

Edit: And what you are describing is exactly why e-sports and sports are two different words. If I randomly say the word "apple" actually means "orange," that doesn't make it so. For the meaning of a word to change, the vast majority of people have to understand that it carries the new definition. A small percentage with an axe to grind does not a vast majority make -- or do you want to argue with every single word in this post? Because I find it odd that someone who is pushing so hard for definitions that fluid can even understand the words I'm writing. Why are their definitions so stable?

I haven't ever heard "E-sports" as a word, you know. But fine, I'd happily agree that E-Sport is a different word from Sports. But that's not the issue here, you know. The issue is that "E-sport" isn't a "Real" Sport. That a "real" sport is something rigidly defined. Well, it isn't, because the definitions change all the time. For now, E-sport covers gaming/etc nicely, though. It's just a non-physical sport then, is it not?
"But a non-physical sport isn't a sport, because a sport is defined by the general population". True, a SPORT is defined by the general population. But this is a non-physical one. Heck, picking up girls are often refered to as "sport" by some gentlemen.

*sigh* I'm going to say this one more time: sports are, by definition, physical. There is no such thing as a non-physical sport. As I said before, e-mail isn't really mail either. e-sports is just a term (a pretty silly one, too) for competitive videogames. The term makes a comparison to sports, but it doesn't mean games actually are sports. There isn't a debate here.

By current definition physical. Othervise they are identical. E-sports is a word/term for non-physical competitive gaming, just as E-mail is a word/term for a non-physical message to convey information.
Just because A (Sports/Mail) came first do not make them more "real" than B(E-Sports/E-mail).
They are different words for different yet similar things.
It's just easier to say "Sport" than saying "I play a non-physical competitive game currently not considered a Sport by the general masses and thus not reflected yet in a dictionary thus, and I don't say E-sport though it is its own word because I think it is a silly term and I like to feel that I play Sport because it's a more commonly known term that I don't have to explain with this extremely long sentence every time".

Language is about convenience afterall.

Using the separate words I just pointed out. "Competition" and "game" are the two overarching terms that contain everything I just listed, and there's no need to expand "sports" to be a catchall term for everything that fits into these categories

I once more agree, but add that saying "I play an E-sport" might add a certain feel of serious-ness and dedicated organization, that the person listening might pick up on. If someone said "I play an E-sport" to me, without me knowing what it ment, I'd ask, and the person would probably say something like "I play competitive tournament for (insert game or activity here)", which for me I would then think "Oh, he plays games online". Which isn't really the case, as it is far more than just a few untied online-games. It's more work, more dedication, more tactics and more in general.
And that's where the root of the problem is, I guess. If you say "I play a competitive game", people will think it's a GAME. You know, fun and games? Non-serious shit you do to relax after works?
If they hear "sport", they know it's something more. That's why I'd personally favor going with E-sport, over having to explain my hobby in such a detail every time so that to make sure they really know the difference.

 

[Axelhander]

Will respond more later. Still doing the world's biggest eyeroll.

 

[teebeeohh]

chess is sport
snooker is a sport
starcraft has been a sport in Korea for 10 years.
and while halo or CoD is not much to look at as an observer starcraft is perfect for that, of course you don't get what's going on at first but that's the same with every sport the first time you watch it, it's just that most of us grew up watching certain sports so we always know what's going on.