Can (Internet) Piracy ever be Justified?

[LawlessSquirrel]

I'm anti-piracy in most cases, but I'll make a clear exception when it's the only way to get something. I don't mean if I can't afford it (or I'd have pirated Portal 2 already), but if it is for something that cannot be otherwise obtained or would otherwise be very difficult to obtain, like banned movies, games that don't get made anymore, etc.

Or in cases where I own the product already and for some reason or another need/want a digital copy, such as the Chipmunks movies, Nintendo games, and a few games with mysteriously missing disks or compatibility errors that seem to be solved by cracks.

Software for the same reasons as above, but I will torrent expensive software for non-commercial use on a trial basis. If I find it meets my needs and I end up using it professionally, they'll have another paying customer. As far as I'm concerned, that's just an unofficial trial where they don't offer a viable one already.

 

[AWAR]

Here's my take on piracy. If you have absolutely no other way possible of getting your hands on what it is you intend to download through legal means, than go ahead and do it. Any other reason, including financial ones, are unacceptable IMO. Just because you can't afford a luxury doesn't entitle you to steal it. And yes, it is a luxury, not a necessity. I've never heard of anyone dying because they couldn't download the latest track from Lady Gaga.

You wouldn't do it in real life, and it doesn't make it "ok" to do it just because it's "virtual". Theft is theft, period.

Theft is the act of removing ones goods and keeping for yourself. Because of the nature of computing and the internet, such thing is not happening. Sure you can say that piracy is against the copyright law and therefore illegal, but calling it "stealing" and equating with actual theft is simply irrational.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

My 3rd disc of my physical copy (I'm on my third keep in mind) of The Sims 2 crapped out on me. I'd already spent around 80 quid on three copies of the game and easily £100+ on expansions. But for whatever reason the 3rd disc wasn't recognised on installation so I used a piece of software at work to completely wipe the disc and then burned a fresh copy of disc three onto it that a friend ripped from his.

I will also admit to being tempted several times; usually for games I'm on the fence about. But luckily for me almost everytime I've been pushed said game comes on sale on Steam.

It's justifiable from a moral standpoint sure and from a legal standpoint it depends what you're doing with it. A lot of Youtube videos host albums; but provided they aren't making profit and they purchased the albums themselves they are well within their legal rights to upload them, doesn't the creative commons cover that or something? I'm pretty sure we brushed on it in Informatics when I was at college.

 

[Nifty]

Piracy is piracy, doesn't matter if it's theft or not, it'll always be illegal. So no, it can't be justified.

 

[Dys]

Piracy is piracy, doesn't matter if it's theft or not, it'll always be illegal. So no, it can't be justified.

Notable revolutionaries in France, America and Rome decided to break the law and had no trouble justifying it. More than that, seemingly everyone thinks they were right to do so. Legality has no bearing on justifaction, justice or right vs wrong. It is the law of the land and it can often be unjust or outdated.

 

[xdiesp]

Jesus would be arrested for illegal fishsharing today.
If we lived in an actual democracy, it's the copyrighters who would be thrown in jail: how free are we, if even ideas have become property barred to all but one.

 

[KiKiweaky]

Monty python put a load of their old stuff on the Youtube and asked viewers to support them by buying their dvds. After the youtube channel was active for a while their DVD sales were boosted by 22,000%

Havent copyright holders asked youtube for millions of dollars in reparations for lost profits in the past aswell?

http://www.seoxp.net/?p=287 <== link to the monty python story.

 

[Nifty]

Piracy is piracy, doesn't matter if it's theft or not, it'll always be illegal. So no, it can't be justified.

Notable revolutionaries in France, America and Rome decided to break the law and had no trouble justifying it. More than that, seemingly everyone thinks they were right to do so. Legality has no bearing on justifaction, justice or right vs wrong. It is the law of the land and it can often be unjust or outdated.

It's not exactly in the same ball park as revolution though. We're not talking about people rising up against an oppressive regime, we're talking about folks not wanting to pay for things that other folks try to make a living out of by selling.

 

[Pyroguekenesis]

Here's my take. I pirate to try things out.
For example, if I were to buy a CD set for some songs I love from the artist - I wouldn't exactly want them if I already don't like them songs, well....Youtube offers that anyway.
OK, I usually pirate alot however, if I feel the game is worth the price - I will delete it and go buy the actual game for my PC or console and play with friends.

 

[Caliostro]

[out of topic note]

Yeah, I had some arguing with him last night too. It was kinda sad. I hate using the word "troll", but I swear he is. Nobody can be that dumb and hold such insane self-belief... right?

The sad thing is, if he really does stick to his "Good day" and leave the thread, all we've managed to do is out-troll a troll. Where are the moderators this morning, anyway? I reported this guy for inflammatory remarks several times, and going back through his post history, he has a history of ad hominem attacks, despite having less than 100 posts to his name.

Mods have lives too ya know? In the future, if you see someone misbehaving report and move on. That means, make the report and carry on. Don't keep fighting with them. Don't insult them. Don't even talk back. Ignore them. Use the ignore list in your profile if you want or need to. If you keep it up, you're just as guilty as they are.

Calling people trolls is trolling. It adds nothing of value to the discussion and only serves the purpose of goading further arguments. So if you wanna PM each other over how much you dislike someone, then by all means. Keep the "dirty laundry" of the forum though, even if you really dislike the person, for whatever reason.

So, remember, "report and move on".

Thank you.

[/out of topic note]

On topic:

I'll say one thing on this topic: If honestly have the money for whatever you pirate and just prefer to spend it on other things, while still enjoying what you pirated, then you are a thief.

Comes down to it doesn't it?

 

[Dys]

Piracy is piracy, doesn't matter if it's theft or not, it'll always be illegal. So no, it can't be justified.

Notable revolutionaries in France, America and Rome decided to break the law and had no trouble justifying it. More than that, seemingly everyone thinks they were right to do so. Legality has no bearing on justifaction, justice or right vs wrong. It is the law of the land and it can often be unjust or outdated.

It's not exactly in the same ball park as revolution though. We're not talking about people rising up against an oppressive regime, we're talking about folks not wanting to pay for things that other folks try to make a living out of by selling.

My point was that legality and morality are not the same thing, something being illegal isn't a very good justification as to why it shouldn't be done (though the consequences of breaking the law are incentive for abiding it).

 

[Hive Mind]

words

Please answer this question then:

If it was the social norm for all forms of music and art to be freely exchanged, would you still be against it, and why?

I'm autistic; my morals are word for word whatever the law happens to be. Black and white, yes. Immoral? It can be. Stupid? At times. But I don't have morals like most people, so the law is what I use as a reference.

If it was socially normal to freely exchange media but still illegal, I would be against it. If it was legal, I'd be for it. Well, I'm neither for or against anything in this topic, really. The law is just the law. I'm not pro or anti piracy in a moral sense -- not having morals and all, lol. But the law says it's wrong so...

 

[Sikachu]

No. Owning a copy, not being able to own a copy, being poor, owning a broken copy, or anything else doesn't matter.

Entitlement - some people haz it.

Wait what? You think it's unjustifiable to pirate a game that I own (and, for example, is sitting on my desk)? Why?

I don't make the laws.

Copying your own game is fine. Downloading an illegal copy aint.

Blame the people in power.

Ah I get it, you aren't tlaking about 'justifiable' at all, you're talking about 'illegal'. I don't care about 'illegal'. It's illegal to speed and I do that all the time.

 

[Hive Mind]

No. Owning a copy, not being able to own a copy, being poor, owning a broken copy, or anything else doesn't matter.

Entitlement - some people haz it.

Wait what? You think it's unjustifiable to pirate a game that I own (and, for example, is sitting on my desk)? Why?

I don't make the laws.

Copying your own game is fine. Downloading an illegal copy aint.

Blame the people in power.

Ah I get it, you aren't tlaking about 'justifiable' at all, you're talking about 'illegal'. I don't care about 'illegal'. It's illegal to speed and I do that all the time.

I use the law as my morality. Right and wrong - law and order. One in the same to me.

Also, stop speeding.

 

[Nifty]

Piracy is piracy, doesn't matter if it's theft or not, it'll always be illegal. So no, it can't be justified.

Notable revolutionaries in France, America and Rome decided to break the law and had no trouble justifying it. More than that, seemingly everyone thinks they were right to do so. Legality has no bearing on justifaction, justice or right vs wrong. It is the law of the land and it can often be unjust or outdated.

It's not exactly in the same ball park as revolution though. We're not talking about people rising up against an oppressive regime, we're talking about folks not wanting to pay for things that other folks try to make a living out of by selling.

My point was that legality and morality are not the same thing, something being illegal isn't a very good justification as to why it shouldn't be done (though the consequences of breaking the law are incentive for abiding it).

But morality and legality are intertwined on a profound level. Laws are, largely, cooked up to back up what most would consider good morals.

Though I do somewhat agree with your next point. You could justify something morally that's against the law if it was say, stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family and you were living in poverty, but that's something you need to live. And entertainment like videogames, music and film just don't fit into the same category, they're a luxury.

 

[Sikachu]

No. Owning a copy, not being able to own a copy, being poor, owning a broken copy, or anything else doesn't matter.

Entitlement - some people haz it.

Wait what? You think it's unjustifiable to pirate a game that I own (and, for example, is sitting on my desk)? Why?

I don't make the laws.

Copying your own game is fine. Downloading an illegal copy aint.

Blame the people in power.

Ah I get it, you aren't tlaking about 'justifiable' at all, you're talking about 'illegal'. I don't care about 'illegal'. It's illegal to speed and I do that all the time.

I use the law as my morality. Right and wrong - law and order. One in the same to me.

Also, stop speeding.

In which case I do my piracy in Eritrea, San Marino, and Trukmenistan. I take it you think it is perfectly justified and moral?

 

[Hive Mind]

No. Owning a copy, not being able to own a copy, being poor, owning a broken copy, or anything else doesn't matter.

Entitlement - some people haz it.

Wait what? You think it's unjustifiable to pirate a game that I own (and, for example, is sitting on my desk)? Why?

I don't make the laws.

Copying your own game is fine. Downloading an illegal copy aint.

Blame the people in power.

Ah I get it, you aren't tlaking about 'justifiable' at all, you're talking about 'illegal'. I don't care about 'illegal'. It's illegal to speed and I do that all the time.

I use the law as my morality. Right and wrong - law and order. One in the same to me.

Also, stop speeding.

In which case I do my piracy in Eritrea, San Marino, and Trukmenistan. I take it you think it is perfectly justified and moral?

If you pirate a game in a country that has no laws against it, from a source WITHIN that country, not from a foreign source with laws against it, then there is no problem.

 

[Sikachu]

In which case I do my piracy in Eritrea, San Marino, and Trukmenistan. I take it you think it is perfectly justified and moral?

If you pirate a game in a country that has no laws against it, from a source WITHIN that country, not from a foreign source with laws against it, then there is no problem.

Now you're changing the goal posts. In those countries it is not illegal to violate external copyrights in whatever way chosen to do so. That someone else has broken the law of their country is neither here nor there.

 

[Hive Mind]

In which case I do my piracy in Eritrea, San Marino, and Trukmenistan. I take it you think it is perfectly justified and moral?

If you pirate a game in a country that has no laws against it, from a source WITHIN that country, not from a foreign source with laws against it, then there is no problem.

Now you're changing the goal posts. In those countries it is not illegal to violate external copyrights in whatever way chosen to do so. That someone else has broken the law of their country is neither here nor there.

But I'm in THIS country and if you pirate from a source in my country, it is wrong.

I don't care about morals or justification. I've told you this. My feelings = the letter of the law.

 

[Sikachu]

In which case I do my piracy in Eritrea, San Marino, and Trukmenistan. I take it you think it is perfectly justified and moral?

If you pirate a game in a country that has no laws against it, from a source WITHIN that country, not from a foreign source with laws against it, then there is no problem.

Now you're changing the goal posts. In those countries it is not illegal to violate external copyrights in whatever way chosen to do so. That someone else has broken the law of their country is neither here nor there.

But I'm in THIS country and if you pirate from a source in my country, it is wrong.

I don't care about morals or justification. I've told you this. My feelings = the letter of the law.

Right, and the letter of the law in all applicable jurisdictions when I'm in (say) San Marino is that internet piracy is completely legal. That some other random country wants to legistlate what other country's citizens can and can't do is irrelevant.