Can (Internet) Piracy ever be Justified?

[Lem0nade Inlay]

Hey all,

Firstly, I know that the Escapist is very anti-piracy. I am in no way attempting to condone piracy in this thread, I am merely asking if there are any ways in which piracy can be defended.

By Piracy I just don't mean video games, I mean movies and music as well.

Are there really any logical reasons for why piracy is a good thing? What positive things does it promote?

Or is it just bad for all involved?

Also, I really don't want anyone to be reported because they are defending piracy in a way. So I would ask you all not to get angry and report those who seem like they are condoning piracy themselves, because it is just a hypothetical discussion in this thread.

Thanks!

Oh and if mods feel that this thread somehow breaches some piracy forum rule then you can delete it, but I couldn't find anything in the rules.

EDIT: An interesting point came up. What do you consider the difference between "piracy" and "filesharing" to be? Is one better than the other? Is filesharing less harmless?

 

[dkyros]

Not really. Being broke doesn't excuse you. Saying it doesn't affect their bottom line doesn't excuse you. Being too impatient for the game to come to your area doesn't excuse you.

The only time I would give my blessing is if the game is never coming to your region of the world. This happens bc its just not profitable. If you are following a foreign game that much and it will never come to you, I say "Arrrrrghhhh!"

 

[Hive Mind]

No. Owning a copy, not being able to own a copy, being poor, owning a broken copy, or anything else doesn't matter.

Entitlement - some people haz it.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

When there is no place to get the game. Or when there isn't a patch to make one of your old games run on your machine etc.

 

[K4ndY]

Here's my take on piracy. If you have absolutely no other way possible of getting your hands on what it is you intend to download through legal means, than go ahead and do it. Any other reason, including financial ones, are unacceptable IMO. Just because you can't afford a luxury doesn't entitle you to steal it. And yes, it is a luxury, not a necessity. I've never heard of anyone dying because they couldn't download the latest track from Lady Gaga.

You wouldn't do it in real life, and it doesn't make it "ok" to do it just because it's "virtual". Theft is theft, period.

 

[Scizophrenic Llama]

I'd say no, but I would be lying if I said I haven't downloaded an album that I couldn't find through any retailer and it was being sold for an assload of cash on eBay or something of that sort. My thoughts on that pretty much come out to the fact that none of the money makes it back to the artist.

Although that really only works on old obscure stuff. Nowadays it's pretty well covered in the fact that everything is released officially through some form of digital provider.

Still, there is no gray zone for pirating. Either you are, or you aren't.

 

[tzimize]

Old discussion is old, but ah well. Slow morning.

In my opinion: Yes, it can often be justified.
Developers are selling a product. Often for a big chunk of money. Just as often they do not give consumers a good reason to buy their product except misleading, stupid commercials.
Piracy is good for the following reasons:

1: The consumer get to actually experience if the product is shit or not. If its shit, dont pay. Nothing of value was lost. If the people developing shit products goes bankrupt because of this, it benefits the industry as a whole, since we get less shit products. If its good, buy it.

2: PR value. By testing a game through piracy consumers can discover products they never knew they liked. And will tell their friends about it. Nowadays people got friends (or at least contacts) all over the world. So word of mouth can be quite valuable for the developer.

I guess it cant go unsaid that pirates actually BUY the games/movies/whatever after they have pirated it though. At least the good products. If not, the whole industry will die out and everyone is worse off.

Argument number two can give developers a lot of money even if the person dont buy it though. If his word of mouth leads to 3 friends actually byuing the game, he has effectively given the developers more money than a single game. This does not justify him not paying, I am only arguing that piracy can have benefits.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Piracy threads are just a bad idea around here. The only honest answers you're going to get are from a few goody two shoes who like to moralize, because it's considered a bannable offense to so much as admit to piracy, let alone argue that it's morally alright in certain situations; that would be "condoning illegal or adult materials," which is specifically against the rules here. This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

OT: I can think of two justifications that are safe to use on this site. The first is if your disc broke but your license is still valid; software companies tend to forget that they can't have it both ways in regards to sales and licenses. The second is if it's a game worked on by James Portnow and it simply isn't available in your country in any other form. This was specifically okayed in an episode of Extra Credits. Beyond that? Ban bait.

 

[Hive Mind]

This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Oh hi there. What's it like being psychic and knowing everything? Must be weird, being able to make such claims and know you're right.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Oh hi there. What's it like being psychic and knowing everything? Must be weird, being able to make such claims and know you're right.

Okay, so it's hyperbole. Very, very slight hyperbole.

Edit: Also, you mean to tell me that you have never once:

Downloaded a movie
Downloaded an episode of a TV show
Downloaded an MP3
Downloaded a videogame
borrowed and made a copy of a CD
Borrowed and made a copy of a videogame
Borrowed and ripped a CD
Borrowed and installed a DRM free videogame
Or
Made a mix tape?

 

[FalloutJack]

The Neil Gaiman Defense.

Thank you.

(I love that someone has simplified the entire argument in a single bound. Don't you?)

 

[Hive Mind]

This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Oh hi there. What's it like being psychic and knowing everything? Must be weird, being able to make such claims and know you're right.

Okay, so it's hyperbole. Very, very slight hyperbole.

Oh hi there. What's it like knowing everything? Boy, if I could only make such claims. If only I knew such things as fact! Sure would be awesome.

Tell me, did your psychic powers tell you this? Or is it based on some sort of extensive research that you can demonstrate here? It sure would be silly to make claims that you just pull out of the air.

 

[Lem0nade Inlay]

Piracy threads are just a bad idea around here. The only honest answers you're going to get are from a few goody two shoes who like to moralize, because it's considered a bannable offense to so much as admit to piracy, let alone argue that it's morally alright in certain situations; that would be "condoning illegal or adult materials," which is specifically against the rules here. This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Yeah I sort of tried to make it clear in the orginal post if there was a way to defend it without sort of saying that it's a good things, if that makes sense.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Oh hi there. What's it like being psychic and knowing everything? Must be weird, being able to make such claims and know you're right.

Okay, so it's hyperbole. Very, very slight hyperbole.

Oh hi there. What's it like knowing everything? Boy, if I could only make such claims. If only I knew such things as fact! Sure would be awesome.

Tell me, did your psychic powers tell you this? Or is it based on some sort of extensive research that you can demonstrate here? It sure would be silly to make claims that you just pull out of the air.

Read my edit. If you've never done anything on that list, congratulations; you're either a saint, living in the stone age, or a liar.

Heck, let's add some things to the list:

Streamed a movie that was uploaded to a streaming site illegally
streamed a TV show that was uploaded to a streaming site illegally
streamed a song that was uploaded to a streaming site illegally
used a firefox plugin to download absolutely any video from a streaming site

 

[Hive Mind]

If you've never done anything on that list, congratulations; you're either a saint, living in the stone age, or a liar.

Once again, your psychic abilities amaze me!

You know, most people would do things like provide research evidence and show how they came to these conclusions -- sources, interviews, tests, etc., etc. But I guess you can just say something you believe is true and it becomes fact. Amazing.

 

[4li3n]

Back when we where still under communism bootlegs where the only way to get western music... but i guess people should have just waited for communism to collapse so they can buy a legit copy.

I guess if you 'bought' the game but say the disc broke and you couldn't get a replacement, maybe it'd seem acceptable to pirate in your eyes.

In most places if you actually bought a copy then making/obtaining a back-up copy is quite legal. Which makes sense when you think about the fact that you're actually not buying a CD, but the rights to use the IP.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

If you've never done anything on that list, congratulations; you're either a saint, living in the stone age, or a liar.

Once again, your psychic abilities amaze me!

You know, most people would do things like provide research evidence and show how they came to these conclusions -- sources, interviews, tests, etc., etc. But I guess you can just say something you believe is true and it becomes fact. Amazing.

If you have anything to add to the discussion aside from sarcasm, please do. Otherwise, quit trolling; my hand is hovering over the report button as it is.

 

[night_chrono]

This is kind of tough, because anyone under the age of 40 who says they've never pirated anything in their life is a liar.

Oh hi there. What's it like being psychic and knowing everything? Must be weird, being able to make such claims and know you're right.

Okay, so it's hyperbole. Very, very slight hyperbole.

Edit: Also, you mean to tell me that you have never once:

Downloaded a movie
Downloaded an episode of a TV show
Downloaded an MP3
Downloaded a videogame
borrowed and made a copy of a CD
Borrowed and made a copy of a videogame
Borrowed and ripped a CD
Borrowed and installed a DRM free videogame
Or
Made a mix tape?

You forgot "Watched a youtube video and/or flash animation with a full song used without permission". Thats the one that catches people.

Also if you go to bars/clubs never underestimate how much music played there is pirated. You may not have pirated it yourself, but by patronizing a business that did you are supporting it.

Piracy is a very hard thing to not commit, or contribute to these days.

*EDIT*

Speaking as an artist I would be happy if people had a liking for it, regardless if they purchased it or not. Let me say this right off the bat, my medium is ceramics, so not exactly pirate-able material. Lets for arguments sake say that in 1000 years I am still alive, and the human race has mastered energy to matter conversion.

So there I am in my studio and I make a truly fantastic piece of artwork. Something worth of a museum. I sell it through my website, and the buyer places it in his matter energy converter, saves the pattern, and sends it to a few of his friends. It spreads like a wildfire all around Earth, it's colonies, and a few alien races.

Would I be upset? No, not in the slightest. I would be happy that something I created was so widely appreciated.

The reason being that I do my art because it's what I truly love to do. Silly things like money are of no real concern, beyond using it for my basic needs.

We live in a society of excess. Those upset over piracy are almost always businessmen, and the uber-rich. I ask this question to all who will post and say piracy is wrong, if it was the social norm for all forms of music and art to be freely exchanged, would you still be against it?

 

[DrMetal]

Testing the game/music is what i accept as justifiable piracy. Say i pirated dragon age, played it, loved it, got payed from my work, bought it full price.

Good example of things just rolling with it - was Mortiis with their Perfectly defect album - they made it free for download on their website, and asked people to donate to them. Such thing works, as you actually donate how much you would pay for this album (i am talking about scenarion where i heard album, but say wouldnt pay more than £10 for it, it i only see it for £20 in shops, i would never buy it)